Avensis T27, is it possible to "improve" the suspension?

[slc79]

Even after getting my T27 fixed (and compared identical driving experience to a different T27), I can't help thinking the ride feels a little lumpy and harsh.
I'm wondering if I was spoilt by my previous car being exceptionally stable on the road (Volvo V50), and the Avensis being at almost the opposite end of the scale.
Long story short, I'm seeking a way to dampen the feedback from the car somewhat. I feel it's a tad too jumpy and bouncy on uneven surfaces
(which, let's face it, almost all of the Norwegian roads are! 🙂 ). Are there softer spring/shocks that is known to work well with the Avensis that could
make it drive a bit softer like, say Volvo or Ford? Or are the OEM shocks pretty much as soft as it can be without sacrificing stability?

It is an excellent car otherwise, so I'm hoping there could be an upgrade path using third party components to achieve some additional driving comfort 🙂

I'm also seriously starting to question all these claims that Avensis is an "old man's car", because I certainly don't know many old men who like cars that pick up
and deliver feedback on every grain of sand that's on the road, this is much more like how a lowered and stiffened up car feels like! 🙂

[avensisnz]

I'm with you. The low-speed ride on anything but perfectly smooth roads is far too jiggly and unpleasant.

[slc79]

37 minutes ago, avensisnz said:

I'm with you. The low-speed ride on anything but perfectly smooth roads is far too jiggly and unpleasant.

It's a bit funny this thing... because it's almost as if some don't notice it. T27 is commonly referred to as a very smooth ride, and before I got to test another T27 I thought there was still some demons left in my car after all the faults that was fixed, but the mechanics who tested it last couldn't understand at all what I was talking about. I do also find it a bit "mushy" on highways, but it's tolerable. Have you tried any modifications to resolve this? (So that I know if there's some things that definitely won't work 🙂 )

[JARC1]

11 hours ago, slc79 said:

Even after getting my T27 fixed (and compared identical driving experience to a different T27), I can't help thinking the ride feels a little lumpy and harsh.
I'm wondering if I was spoilt by my previous car being exceptionally stable on the road (Volvo V50), and the Avensis being at almost the opposite end of the scale.
Long story short, I'm seeking a way to dampen the feedback from the car somewhat. I feel it's a tad too jumpy and bouncy on uneven surfaces
(which, let's face it, almost all of the Norwegian roads are! 🙂 ). Are there softer spring/shocks that is known to work well with the Avensis that could
make it drive a bit softer like, say Volvo or Ford? Or are the OEM shocks pretty much as soft as it can be without sacrificing stability?

It is an excellent car otherwise, so I'm hoping there could be an upgrade path using third party components to achieve some additional driving comfort 🙂

I'm also seriously starting to question all these claims that Avensis is an "old man's car", because I certainly don't know many old men who like cars that pick up
and deliver feedback on every grain of sand that's on the road, this is much more like how a lowered and stiffened up car feels like! 🙂

Could not agree more. Have owned a 2012 T Spirit 2.0 Ltr diesel for about three weeks. I find it very bumpy and somewhat "rattling" on the road. I also feel there is a lot of road feed back noise from the car as well. I have to be careful in comparison terms because I also own and drive a Jaguar S-Type (last of what I consider to be the traditional Jaguars). Despite many ways you could judge against the S-Type, the things it is not are "a bumpy ride" as it is extremely comfortable and almost glides over the disgusting UK roads. It also is as good as "rattle free"

Have all my life (and I am old) been a Japanese car fan (Yes I know the Avensis was made in Derby, UK) but I wanted to to go back to Japanese reliability and to be honest wanted to reduce my fuel consumption/bills. 

Any information regards improving the ride of the Avensis would be very gratefully received .

Best Wishes and Regards, John

[TonyHSD]

On 10/15/2022 at 10:47 PM, slc79 said:

Even after getting my T27 fixed (and compared identical driving experience to a different T27), I can't help thinking the ride feels a little lumpy and harsh.
I'm wondering if I was spoilt by my previous car being exceptionally stable on the road (Volvo V50), and the Avensis being at almost the opposite end of the scale.
Long story short, I'm seeking a way to dampen the feedback from the car somewhat. I feel it's a tad too jumpy and bouncy on uneven surfaces
(which, let's face it, almost all of the Norwegian roads are! 🙂 ). Are there softer spring/shocks that is known to work well with the Avensis that could
make it drive a bit softer like, say Volvo or Ford? Or are the OEM shocks pretty much as soft as it can be without sacrificing stability?

It is an excellent car otherwise, so I'm hoping there could be an upgrade path using third party components to achieve some additional driving comfort 🙂

I'm also seriously starting to question all these claims that Avensis is an "old man's car", because I certainly don't know many old men who like cars that pick up
and deliver feedback on every grain of sand that's on the road, this is much more like how a lowered and stiffened up car feels like! 🙂

Hi, 

I am having exactly the same issues with Auris hybrid from 2010. Remember previously same with new Priuses from 2010-2015. It seems Toyota had used a harder shocks into their cars during this period of time , perhaps to stiffen the suspension. The worst comes in colder weather. Anything below 12C° and the car rides horribly hard with all road abrasion, stones, cracks felt straight through the seat , wheel, and the thuds noise. , very uncomfortable especially on longer drives. 
You have mentioned, you had changed the shocks? Did you fit original Toyota or aftermarket? Usually if you change the shocks and fit exact same spec, even aftermarket they likely to be the same. I don’t want really to change the shocks if they are normally function, apart from the hard ride. The reason is likely to be from the oil used in the shocks which for some reason can not withstand low temperatures and the shocks become hard. 
The only option to improve ride quality is with tyres. Here it is tricky: 

I know which summer tyres are the best for this job and unrivalled by any other manufacturer: Goodyear efficient grip performance 2. 
I thought if they are so good of dampening the hard suspension, their all season will be the same., however although Goodyear vector 4 season gen 3 are excellent all season tyres, one of the best available they actually made the ride quality even worse. They have super soft side walls and tread pattern but slightly stronger carcass and shoulders, the results in my auris were terrible hard drive . I only managed to use them 1200 miles and put back the summer Efficient grip performance 2, the car is still hard because of the low temperature but much more comfortable and the ride is much more forgiving. Here about my tyres drama: 

You can read from page 3 if you don’t want all the info from beginning. 
Perhaps a dedicated European winter tyres with low noise and soft side walls will help dampen the hard suspension, which you can’t really do much about it. Summer time use Goodyear efficient grip performance 2, the softest , the smoothest touring tyres. 👍

[JARC1]

23 hours ago, JARC1 said:

Could not agree more. Have owned a 2012 T Spirit 2.0 Ltr diesel for about three weeks. I find it very bumpy and somewhat "rattling" on the road. I also feel there is a lot of road feed back noise from the car as well. I have to be careful in comparison terms because I also own and drive a Jaguar S-Type (last of what I consider to be the traditional Jaguars). Despite many ways you could judge against the S-Type, the things it is not are "a bumpy ride" as it is extremely comfortable and almost glides over the disgusting UK roads. It also is as good as "rattle free"

Have all my life (and I am old) been a Japanese car fan (Yes I know the Avensis was made in Derby, UK) but I wanted to to go back to Japanese reliability and to be honest wanted to reduce my fuel consumption/bills. 

Any information regards improving the ride of the Avensis would be very gratefully received .

Best Wishes and Regards, John

I am beginning to wonder, having read all of the replies (so far) , if there is perhaps nothing that can be done. Is it therefore a case of I bought an Avensis and now just get on with hard/bumpy suspension and road noise.

Best Wishes, John

[Stivino]

11 minutes ago, JARC1 said:

I am beginning to wonder, having read all of the replies (so far) , if there is perhaps nothing that can be done. Is it therefore a case of I bought an Avensis and now just get on with hard/bumpy suspension and road noise.

Best Wishes, John

Yep.

[Yugguy1970]

Worth looking at all the suspension bushes and replacing them with poly, they don't perish and are more progressive

[jcps001]

If he's willing, maybe he can have some success using Sachs shocks... But be aware, Sachs shocks are too soft for some people... They're mainly used in german cars with multilink suspension systems...

Toyotas of that era did not have multilink suspension by default, only on some models...

If he also has larger wheels (17-18 inch), maybe changing to 16 inch wheels equipped with those Efficientgrip 2's may help.

[slc79]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Hi, 

I am having exactly the same issues with Auris hybrid from 2010. Remember previously same with new Priuses from 2010-2015. It seems Toyota had used a harder shocks into their cars during this period of time , perhaps to stiffen the suspension. The worst comes in colder weather. Anything below 12C° and the car rides horribly hard with all road abrasion, stones, cracks felt straight through the seat , wheel, and the thuds noise. , very uncomfortable especially on longer drives. 
You have mentioned, you had changed the shocks? Did you fit original Toyota or aftermarket? Usually if you change the shocks and fit exact same spec, even aftermarket they likely to be the same. I don’t want really to change the shocks if they are normally function, apart from the hard ride. The reason is likely to be from the oil used in the shocks which for some reason can not withstand low temperatures and the shocks become hard. 
The only option to improve ride quality is with tyres. Here it is tricky: 

I know which summer tyres are the best for this job and unrivalled by any other manufacturer: Goodyear efficient grip performance 2. 
I thought if they are so good of dampening the hard suspension, their all season will be the same., however although Goodyear vector 4 season gen 3 are excellent all season tyres, one of the best available they actually made the ride quality even worse. They have super soft side walls and tread pattern but slightly stronger carcass and shoulders, the results in my auris were terrible hard drive . I only managed to use them 1200 miles and put back the summer Efficient grip performance 2, the car is still hard because of the low temperature but much more comfortable and the ride is much more forgiving. Here about my tyres drama: 

You can read from page 3 if you don’t want all the info from beginning. 
Perhaps a dedicated European winter tyres with low noise and soft side walls will help dampen the hard suspension, which you can’t really do much about it. Summer time use Goodyear efficient grip performance 2, the softest , the smoothest touring tyres. 👍

Hi

When I got the car, it had aftermarket shocks installed (TRW) and those are known to be stiffer than the OEM parts. I was lucky enough to get some cheap OEM shocks from someone who had unfortunately wrecked his own Avensis before he got the chance to replace them. This made a difference as the car was now softer overall, but this "bumping and wobbling" feeling persists. It responds much harder to bumps in the road than any other car I've ever driven, and there's also a slight side-by-side-wobbling (which I believe is that the constant adaption to the road from each wheel being felt in the chassis). I tested my father's V60 yesterday, and while I can still feel the suspension doing pretty much the same job, the chassis itself remains much steadier. His car is generally rougher to drive, but because of the chassis not following every single move, it's still a more comfortable ride.

Being an old mechanic, he suggested that the difference felt wasn't really related to the shocks, but rather the design of the wheel suspension itself, and if this is actually the case, there is probably no way this can be improved and that breaks my heart a little, because on longer trips it is actually making me car sick 😞

[slc79]

17 minutes ago, jcps001 said:

If he's willing, maybe he can have some success using Sachs shocks... But be aware, Sachs shocks are too soft for some people... They're mainly used in german cars with multilink suspension systems...

Toyotas of that era did not have multilink suspension by default, only on some models...

If he also has larger wheels (17-18 inch), maybe changing to 16 inch wheels equipped with those Efficientgrip 2's may help.

I notice no difference between 17" and 16" wheels. The 17" set is Nokian Hakka Blue 2, which is probably among the softest and most quiet tyres that exist. 🙂 The 16" I don't remember off hand, but I think it was some Continental M+S-tyres. It's either Continental or Goodyear, that's I'm certain of.

So, how much softer is the Sachs-shocks compared to the OEM ones? And if I decided to try this, would I also need Sachs struts to go with them?
Exactly how do you reckon I'd notice a difference? As I said in the post above, my grief with the care is that all unevenness in the road is picked up so violently. On highways it can feel as small "jumps", while on country roads driving at slower speed it's a combination of hard bumps and the car wobbling. As a reference point, I had some dirt on my windshield yesterday, and when focusing my eyes on the road I could clearly see the rest of the car being shaking both left and right quite rapidly. CAN this effect be tamed/reduced going softer?

[APS]

I think this is a combination of things, but, fundamentally is down to the design. I suspect the Avensis' Shell isn't super stiff and this will cause the car to shake rather than let the suspension absorb the shocks. Have you tried different wheels and tyres? Smaller rims with higher profile tyre may improve things. 

[TonyHSD]

I meant to say that even aftermarket shocks may not improve the ride quality much if anything at all. The suspension set up is a combination of shocks, springs, rubber bushes and suspension arms types plus tyre wheel combo. In these Toyota cars all you can do is to change tyres wheels combo from 18” or 17” down to 16” and better softer tyres with more often pressures checks. That’s pretty much all we can do to make the cars better. I won’t change my shocks for new until they are gone, because the new ones will be likely the same. I know these cars well. 

[jcps001]

56 minutes ago, slc79 said:

I notice no difference between 17" and 16" wheels. The 17" set is Nokian Hakka Blue 2, which is probably among the softest and most quiet tyres that exist. 🙂 The 16" I don't remember off hand, but I think it was some Continental M+S-tyres. It's either Continental or Goodyear, that's I'm certain of.

So, how much softer is the Sachs-shocks compared to the OEM ones? And if I decided to try this, would I also need Sachs struts to go with them?
Exactly how do you reckon I'd notice a difference? As I said in the post above, my grief with the care is that all unevenness in the road is picked up so violently. On highways it can feel as small "jumps", while on country roads driving at slower speed it's a combination of hard bumps and the car wobbling. As a reference point, I had some dirt on my windshield yesterday, and when focusing my eyes on the road I could clearly see the rest of the car being shaking both left and right quite rapidly. CAN this effect be tamed/reduced going softer?

Nowadays, these newer Toyotas seem to have better suspension systems, confort and handling wise. Before that, Toyota suspension systems were known for what you describe.

I don't know much more that could make a difference... Maybe a Lexus?

[JARC1]

15 minutes ago, jcps001 said:

Nowadays, these newer Toyotas seem to have better suspension systems, confort and handling wise. Before that, Toyota suspension systems were known for what you describe.

I don't know much more that could make a difference... Maybe a Lexus?

Having just bought the Avensis I think to start changing shock absorbers or buying a Lexus, etc., etc., is a rather extravagant/expensive way of what looks like "no improvement anticipated", according to these posts. Perhaps the purchase of the Avensis was not a good move ?

Best Wishes and Regards, John

[jcps001]

4 hours ago, JARC1 said:

Having just bought the Avensis I think to start changing shock absorbers or buying a Lexus, etc., etc., is a rather extravagant/expensive way of what looks like "no improvement anticipated", according to these posts. Perhaps the purchase of the Avensis was not a good move ?

Best Wishes and Regards, John

The Avensis is a very good car. But people expect Toyotas of that era to perform as well as BMW or a Mercedes, or a Ford, or a Peugeot.

They won't. It is a Toyota. Toyotas were always known for their older, simpler suspensions. They're cheap to manufacture and to repair, while giving good performance. That's how it is.

Now that I remember, maybe using Scotty Kilmer's trick, used and approved by TonyHSD, of applying silicone lubricant spray over the rubber bushings... Maybe that can improve somewhat the ride?

[slc79]

10 minutes ago, jcps001 said:

The Avensis is a very good car. But people expect Toyotas of that era to perform as well as BMW or a Mercedes, or a Ford, or a Peugeot.

They won't. It is a Toyota. Toyotas were always known for their older, simpler suspensions. They're cheap to manufacture and to repair, while giving good performance. That's how it is.

Now that I remember, maybe using Scotty Kilmer's trick, used and approved by TonyHSD, of applying silicone lubricant spray over the rubber bushings... Maybe that can improve somewhat the ride?

But here's the thing.. many reviews is actually comparing the Avensis against for example Ford Focus, and even upholds the claim that the Avensis is a comfortable ride. I would easily expect it to be a bit stiffer, like for example Mazda, but it's no where near any of those two. But yeah, I suppose, might not be able to have it both ways. But I would at least have expected it to run smoother on fresh asphalt, but even there it feels like there are invisible bumps in the road and car is still shaking from side to side.  🙂

But yeah, coming from a Volvo V50 that was actually super smooth, I may have chosen a car that simply wasn't for me (Or I still need to learn to adapt to it), but I am not exaggerating when I say that the Avensis sometimes make me motion sick because of all the movement. I am very interested in hearing more about spraying lubricant over the rubber bushings.. any link to video/article?

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, jcps001 said:

The Avensis is a very good car. But people expect Toyotas of that era to perform as well as BMW or a Mercedes, or a Ford, or a Peugeot.

They won't. It is a Toyota. Toyotas were always known for their older, simpler suspensions. They're cheap to manufacture and to repair, while giving good performance. That's how it is.

Now that I remember, maybe using Scotty Kilmer's trick, used and approved by TonyHSD, of applying silicone lubricant spray over the rubber bushings... Maybe that can improve somewhat the ride?

You can always spray some silicone on them, I do now and then and it does help a bit or perhaps it’s just in my mind.  The silicone spray can and does indeed stop annoying creeks and rattle but to improve the ride quality to compensate for hard shocks I don’t think so. 👍

[2009joe]

tbh mine is a bit rattly also the t27 i put  it down to maybe the front break calibers pins maybe work but there is only 50k on the clock .but for sure a bit noiser than my last car a vw group car 1.9 tdi 

[JARC1]

2 hours ago, slc79 said:

But here's the thing.. many reviews is actually comparing the Avensis against for example Ford Focus, and even upholds the claim that the Avensis is a comfortable ride. I would easily expect it to be a bit stiffer, like for example Mazda, but it's no where near any of those two. But yeah, I suppose, might not be able to have it both ways. But I would at least have expected it to run smoother on fresh asphalt, but even there it feels like there are invisible bumps in the road and car is still shaking from side to side.  🙂

But yeah, coming from a Volvo V50 that was actually super smooth, I may have chosen a car that simply wasn't for me (Or I still need to learn to adapt to it), but I am not exaggerating when I say that the Avensis sometimes make me motion sick because of all the movement. I am very interested in hearing more about spraying lubricant over the rubber bushings.. any link to video/article?

"I am very interested in hearing more about spraying lubricant over the rubber bushings.. any link to video/article?"

Me to, I would like to know more please.

Regards, John

[slc79]

1 hour ago, 2009joe said:

tbh mine is a bit rattly also the t27 i put  it down to maybe the front break calibers pins maybe work but there is only 50k on the clock .but for sure a bit noiser than my last car a vw group car 1.9 tdi 

Yeah, I was also visiting the thought about the caliper pins, but they are alle greased up now and no change on the behavior.
When it comes to noise, I think this car actually performs very well. It's very silent inside compared to my old V50 at least.

[jcps001]

3 hours ago, slc79 said:

But here's the thing.. many reviews is actually comparing the Avensis against for example Ford Focus, and even upholds the claim that the Avensis is a comfortable ride. I would easily expect it to be a bit stiffer, like for example Mazda, but it's no where near any of those two. But yeah, I suppose, might not be able to have it both ways. But I would at least have expected it to run smoother on fresh asphalt, but even there it feels like there are invisible bumps in the road and car is still shaking from side to side.  🙂

Are you sure your suspension is working properly? Are your wheels well balanced and well aligned? Are your tyres of good quality?

[slc79]

13 minutes ago, jcps001 said:

Are you sure your suspension is working properly? Are your wheels well balanced and well aligned? Are your tyres of good quality?

I recently had the car at its 180.000 KM service, where they apparently checked the entire car, including that. Wheels are balanced and even re-balanced just for sanity checking, wheel alignment was also performed recently. Nokian Hakka Blue summer tyres, Continental winter tyres.

Edited: for some reason I keep writing "card" or "care" instead of car.. corrected 🙂

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, JARC1 said:

"I am very interested in hearing more about spraying lubricant over the rubber bushings.. any link to video/article?"

Me to, I would like to know more please.

Regards, John

Ok here is the video and I can confirm it works but don’t expect miracles. It will not fix bad shocks or broken springs for sure. What is does it rejuvenated the rubber and makes it soft and elastic again. Less nvh from the suspension and also stops creaking noises from Reb front suspension arms. Tested by me and shared with other members who successfully fixed their cars. It’s in Corolla forum. Happens to all Toyota cars . 👌

 

[slc79]

@TonyHSD: Yeah, I think you're right that this won't address the issue I'm trying to resolve.

That being said, now I'm all of a sudden not sure if my car is normal after all... this is seriously driving me insane, but someone pointed out to be that something feels like being out of balance. I'm pretty sure this car is eventually going to have me sent away to a mental hospital in the end 🙂 Despite being insanely expensive, I'm wondering if I actually need to pay up for having the car checked on a dyno-bench to observe what is really going on. If whatever I'm noticing isn't normal, it should show itself..

As an extra piece of information... on highways, while not being directly shaking, the car still feels as if maybe it's too mushy. I feel I'm constantly bouncing, and even if there's no wind, I find it actually a bit difficult to hold the car straight. As if the steering is not quite precise and need to correct often even if just driving straight. Is this also typical for these cars? (I know, I know.. I should have picked up a lot of these when test driving the car prior to purchase.. but I often need time to adjust to cars, so I'm not always able to tell what is caused by my own stiffness from driving an unknown car and what comes from the car or road itself)