Avensis T27, is it possible to "improve" the suspension?

[Yugguy1970]

Sounds like worn bushes and old shocks to me.

[TonyHSD]

6 hours ago, slc79 said:

@TonyHSD: Yeah, I think you're right that this won't address the issue I'm trying to resolve.

That being said, now I'm all of a sudden not sure if my car is normal after all... this is seriously driving me insane, but someone pointed out to be that something feels like being out of balance. I'm pretty sure this car is eventually going to have me sent away to a mental hospital in the end 🙂 Despite being insanely expensive, I'm wondering if I actually need to pay up for having the car checked on a dyno-bench to observe what is really going on. If whatever I'm noticing isn't normal, it should show itself..

As an extra piece of information... on highways, while not being directly shaking, the car still feels as if maybe it's too mushy. I feel I'm constantly bouncing, and even if there's no wind, I find it actually a bit difficult to hold the car straight. As if the steering is not quite precise and need to correct often even if just driving straight. Is this also typical for these cars? (I know, I know.. I should have picked up a lot of these when test driving the car prior to purchase.. but I often need time to adjust to cars, so I'm not always able to tell what is caused by my own stiffness from driving an unknown car and what comes from the car or road itself)

You can try some silicone wd-40 on all bushes front and rear except stabiliser bar bushes on the front, these should be dry. 
If the car feels unstable at high speeds very likely to be from wheel alignment or issue with inner or outer tie rods on the steering rack, ball joints , suspension arm bushes. If you have rear independent suspension, it should be thoroughly checked and aligned too, often the rear axle is the cause of vibrations and other issues, but many not aware off. These could be the culprit for having stiffness or harshness too. But in general these cars from  that era are exactly like that. I would had replaced probably everything without any need just to try to fix something that is likely unfixable, thanks God I had many of these cars before from brand new with  the same behaviour, just slightly less pronounced because of the new rubber, new tyres etc, new shocks. 
Last night took my car for work, tyres set at correct 2.33 and 2.22 bar, outside temperature 14C° , the tyres looked under inflated , so soft and squishy. The ride, omg like in Mercedes c class or Passat .,  smooth, quiet but with the typical German firmness feel, no unnecessary bouncing or leaning to side when cornering. Bumps cushioned with rubbery feeling and almost no thuds. Drives better than new. I did not done many miles this time, probably around 140, and in the morning coming back home, what the…., where the Mercedes’ has gone, back to my cart car with wooden wheels and no suspension , hard as rock and every single crack, stone or abrasion felt through the whole car.🥲
Outside temperature was 7C° then down to 5C° at my place , and the results are obvious. The car is old and had traveled some miles but this behaviour has been on since day one , and the same to all Toyota Priuses from 2010-2015 . I only driven once Avensis from 2006 and it was the same., hard and bumpy drive. 

[jcps001]

11 hours ago, slc79 said:

@TonyHSD: Yeah, I think you're right that this won't address the issue I'm trying to resolve.

That being said, now I'm all of a sudden not sure if my car is normal after all... this is seriously driving me insane, but someone pointed out to be that something feels like being out of balance. I'm pretty sure this car is eventually going to have me sent away to a mental hospital in the end 🙂 Despite being insanely expensive, I'm wondering if I actually need to pay up for having the car checked on a dyno-bench to observe what is really going on. If whatever I'm noticing isn't normal, it should show itself..

As an extra piece of information... on highways, while not being directly shaking, the car still feels as if maybe it's too mushy. I feel I'm constantly bouncing, and even if there's no wind, I find it actually a bit difficult to hold the car straight. As if the steering is not quite precise and need to correct often even if just driving straight. Is this also typical for these cars? (I know, I know.. I should have picked up a lot of these when test driving the car prior to purchase.. but I often need time to adjust to cars, so I'm not always able to tell what is caused by my own stiffness from driving an unknown car and what comes from the car or road itself)

Yeah... I think there's something wrong on that suspension. I agree with the previous suggestions... That is definitely not normal.

[JARC1]

15 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Ok here is the video and I can confirm it works but don’t expect miracles. It will not fix bad shocks or broken springs for sure. What is does it rejuvenated the rubber and makes it soft and elastic again. Less nvh from the suspension and also stops creaking noises from Reb front suspension arms. Tested by me and shared with other members who successfully fixed their cars. It’s in Corolla forum. Happens to all Toyota cars . 👌

 

Does anyone know where this can be obtained in UK, or can recommend a UK equivalent of this oroduct. It seems it is only available from USA at very hight prices.

Many thanks and Regards, John.

[slc79]

1 hour ago, jcps001 said:

Yeah... I think there's something wrong on that suspension. I agree with the previous suggestions... That is definitely not normal.

Then I'm not sure where to go on now... unless the mentioned dyno-test if I can get it done reveals anything. I've had the car at five garages that all conclude that there is nothing wrong with the car, suggesting it's the owner at fault 🙂

[Cessna]

13 hours ago, slc79 said:

That being said, now I'm all of a sudden not sure if my car is normal after all...

It took a while for you to find out that your dampers were TRW and not OEM. I wonder if the springs were changed from OEM by the person who fitted the TRW dampers? Might be worth checking, because if they are aftermarket springs they could be entirely unsuitable for the car.

[slc79]

2 hours ago, Cessna said:

It took a while for you to find out that your dampers were TRW and not OEM. I wonder if the springs were changed from OEM by the person who fitted the TRW dampers? Might be worth checking, because if they are aftermarket springs they could be entirely unsuitable for the car.

I asked the shop who replaced my shocks to look for signs of that because I was kinda fearing something like that. They did not report back to me at least. Is there any way I can find out if they're OEM or not without disassembling the thing? Or is it even possible to see at all?

[TonyHSD]

38 minutes ago, slc79 said:

I asked the shop who replaced my shocks to look for signs of that because I was kinda fearing something like that. They did not report back to me at least. Is there any way I can find out if they're OEM or not without disassembling the thing? Or is it even possible to see at all?

Yes, 

you will need to find the springs original part number , Google it and you will see pictures. The springs should have paint markings. Most aftermarket doesn’t come with these paint markings. If there are any but of different colour, might be because springs been replaced and not used the exact spec as the original one from factory. I did recently replaced my rear springs with kyb which are supplier for Toyota. The springs were exact spec , cross referencing too but did come without markings. I did stick some markings myself, job done ✔️. 

[slc79]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Yes, 

you will need to find the springs original part number , Google it and you will see pictures. The springs should have paint markings. Most aftermarket doesn’t come with these paint markings. If there are any but of different colour, might be because springs been replaced and not used the exact spec as the original one from factory. I did recently replaced my rear springs with kyb which are supplier for Toyota. The springs were exact spec , cross referencing too but did come without markings. I did stick some markings myself, job done ✔️. 

If there ever was a marking here, King Corrosion the Salty One already took care of it... this suggests to me that the springs aren't exactly new 🙂

[Stivino]

The markings might still be there, under the dirt.  If you give them a good clean, you might see them.

[slc79]

28 minutes ago, Stivino said:

The markings might still be there, under the dirt.  If you give them a good clean, you might see them.

It's not dirt, it's actually rust 😛 I tried wiping it off. The lacquer seems to have corroded away. I need to check this more thorough tomorrow, but I am pretty certain the car is standing flat right now, and it does look like it's slightly more compressed on the right hand side (lower picture), and also the angle looks a bit different. I didn't think anything above the base of the spring was supposed to bend!? The angle of the photo is a bit awkward, but something looks a bit odd here... (I am no mechanic though, so it may be perfectly normal 🙂 )

 

[Stivino]

I should have gone to Specsavers.

[Stivino]

Is that a new strut?

[slc79]

12 minutes ago, Stivino said:

Is that a new strut?

Yes. OEM even.

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, slc79 said:

It's not dirt, it's actually rust 😛 I tried wiping it off. The lacquer seems to have corroded away. I need to check this more thorough tomorrow, but I am pretty certain the car is standing flat right now, and it does look like it's slightly more compressed on the right hand side (lower picture), and also the angle looks a bit different. I didn't think anything above the base of the spring was supposed to bend!? The angle of the photo is a bit awkward, but something looks a bit odd here... (I am no mechanic though, so it may be perfectly normal 🙂 )

 

Yeah, rusty indeed. They look like original. The thing is that when they rust as much best practice when changing the shocks is to put a new springs too, because they not only rust but they also break. Maybe wd-40 can clean them but at this point it is almost a certain that these are the original springs. If they are not broken don’t worry about them. 

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, slc79 said:

If there ever was a marking here, King Corrosion the Salty One already took care of it... this suggests to me that the springs aren't exactly new 🙂

You are right , second picture wrong doesn’t look right and also the boot looks odd too, it might be broken the spring and collapsed into the spring cap. 

[slc79]

2 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

You are right , second picture wrong doesn’t look right and also the boot looks odd too, it might be broken the spring and collapsed into the spring cap. 

Now, that would be a problem wouldn't it... I'll go out to try take more pictures in case it is the camera angle that was awkward and made it somehow look odd. I will also try to move the car to another place on the parking space and see if any difference before and after the move to account for possible unevenness.

[Stivino]

If you think they are different, you should measure the distance from the road to the wheel arch on both sides.

[TonyHSD]

On level ground the space between tyres and wheel arches should be equal between L and R, this is how noted my broken spring, plus when going over sharp bumps the tyre was jumping of the road, this side was seating lower and the spring was softer. Spring usually breaks at their ends top or bottom. 

[slc79]

Something does not look right... I've uploaded the pics to my own server to not fill up the forum, but I can post here on request anyway if someone doesn't feel safe visiting an external link.

https://colaku.com/~tomsk/shocks/

Left hand side is the spring with a small flake sticking up from the base. Even when considering awkward camera angles, right hand side looks very different to me. Again, this might be normal but the entire assembly just does not look all that straight.

[TonyHSD]

13 hours ago, slc79 said:

Something does not look right... I've uploaded the pics to my own server to not fill up the forum, but I can post here on request anyway if someone doesn't feel safe visiting an external link.

https://colaku.com/~tomsk/shocks/

Left hand side is the spring with a small flake sticking up from the base. Even when considering awkward camera angles, right hand side looks very different to me. Again, this might be normal but the entire assembly just does not look all that straight.

It looks like broken spring and missing part, the rest of the spring has collapsed into the spring cap and smashed the spring insulator and positioned oddly the dust cover. 
This is my opinion from what I can see on the pictures. The flakes on the spring paint are showing a lots of rust and weaknesses in material. My ones are very similar condition, not broken yet, just waiting this exactly to happen and will replace the whole assembly. 
Best to dismantle the struts, remove spring and inspect. Replace springs and both top and bottom insulators. Only buy genuine Toyota rubber insulators , aftermarket are garbage. Springs best oem, if not possible or too expensive, second best option are KYB G-Flex . Top mounts with bearings also need to be changes if the they look worn out or if there are any movements in the bearings. 👍

https://www.autodoc.co.uk

[JARC1]

On 10/17/2022 at 10:07 PM, TonyHSD said:

Ok here is the video and I can confirm it works but don’t expect miracles. It will not fix bad shocks or broken springs for sure. What is does it rejuvenated the rubber and makes it soft and elastic again. Less nvh from the suspension and also stops creaking noises from Reb front suspension arms. Tested by me and shared with other members who successfully fixed their cars. It’s in Corolla forum. Happens to all Toyota cars . 👌

 

This product listed in the video does not appear to be available in the UK and is a horrendous price from USA. Can anyone advise me a similar product that is available in the UK. I would like to see if what is advised in this video does anything for my Avensis,

Many thanks and Best Wishes, John

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, JARC1 said:

This product listed in the video does not appear to be available in the UK and is a horrendous price from USA. Can anyone advise me a similar product that is available in the UK. I would like to see if what is advised in this video does anything for my Avensis,

Many thanks and Best Wishes, John

Hi John,

you can buy and use wd-40 silicone spray. It does similar or same job. It cleans and lube rubber bushes, disperse water and dust, rejuvenate the rubber and prevents ageing and cracks. Makes old hard rubber softer again. I use this few time a year for suspension bushes, all rubber seals , doors, bonnet and rear hatch. Seat railings, door locks. Works great. 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/WD40D-N-A-WD-40-Silicone/dp/B006UCNI38/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1HVZ2AKXU24XG&keywords=wd40%2Bsilicone%2Bspray%2Blubricant&qid=1666190098&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIyLjkyIiwicXNhIjoiMi4zOCIsInFzcCI6IjIuMzQifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=Wd%2Caps%2C110&sr=8-1-spons&th=1

Please note : 

Make sure you are only going to spray silicone based lubricant on any rubber or plastic parts and bushes. Never use classic wd-40 petroleum based lube as this is harmful and cause rubber swelling and premature rubber failure. 👍

[JARC1]

3 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Hi John,

you can buy and use wd-40 silicone spray. It does similar or same job. It cleans and lube rubber bushes, disperse water and dust, rejuvenate the rubber and prevents ageing and cracks. Makes old hard rubber softer again. I use this few time a year for suspension bushes, all rubber seals , doors, bonnet and rear hatch. Seat railings, door locks. Works great. 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/WD40D-N-A-WD-40-Silicone/dp/B006UCNI38/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1HVZ2AKXU24XG&keywords=wd40%2Bsilicone%2Bspray%2Blubricant&qid=1666190098&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIyLjkyIiwicXNhIjoiMi4zOCIsInFzcCI6IjIuMzQifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=Wd%2Caps%2C110&sr=8-1-spons&th=1

Please note : 

Make sure you are only going to spray silicone based lubricant on any rubber or plastic parts and bushes. Never use classic wd-40 petroleum based lube as this is harmful and cause rubber swelling and premature rubber failure. 👍

Many thanks. I will buy some and try it.

Best Wishes and Regards, John

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, JARC1 said:

Many thanks. I will buy some and try it.

Best Wishes and Regards, John

You are welcome