BZ4X Real World Cost per Mile vs ICE

[lightboxcar]

Nichlas posted some scary news here: 

So how much will we actually be paying to drive the BZ4x in winter ?

ELECTRIC  : e.g 3.2* miles per kw = ( £0.34** / 3.2 ) = £0.10625 / mile

PETROL  @ 40 miles per gallon unleaded

40 miles per gallon = ( £1.65*** / 40 ) = £0.04125 / mile

Does this mean we could be paying nearly 300% more to drive the EV compared with average ICE ?

!!! CORRECTED CALCULATION, thank you Cyker :   40 miles per gallon = (  £7.50/gallon (£1.65/ltr) *** / 40 ) = £0.1875 / mile

* https://www.whatcar.com/news/range-test-how-far-can-electric-cars-go-in-winter/n24274   ( avarage EV car with heat pump )

** https://www.edfenergy.com/for-home/energywise/what-is-kwh-guide

*** https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/driving-costs/fuel-prices

[Cyker]

So yeah if we could buy fuel at £1.65 per gallon ICE would destroy EV easily, but sadly we can only get it around £1.65 per LITRE!  

[AJones]

Yes, £1.65/litre is £7.50/gallon, so 18.7 p per mile at 40mpg.

On simple fuel costs per mile, the EV is pretty much always going to win. In your example, if you can charge at home, then you can get an EV tariff with lower cost off peak rates, getting the cost down further.

Where it does get more evenly matched is when you bring in the vehicle purchase price and depreciation costs, which are higher for EVs over their life because of the greater initial purchase cost. Also likely to be more closely matched where someone doesn't have off road parking, so reliant on public charging at higher cost. 

[Malop]

3 hours ago, lightboxcar said:

ELECTRIC  : e.g 3.2* miles per kw = ( £0.34** / 3.2 ) = £0.10625 / mile

If I change that to my over night rate it becomes:

ELECTRIC : 3.2 miles per KWH = (£0.14 / 3.2) = £0.04 / mile

but then if I assume only public charging at InstaVolt (as an example public charging network) with no subscription 

ELECTRIC : 3.2 miles per KWH = (£0.66/ 3.2) = £0.20 / mile

[ernieb]

The thing is with these calculation is that the HEV and PHEV would most likely achieve much better than 40mpg. Also the price per k/Wh if you use public chargers is likely to cost you significantly more than 34p/kWh.

Who knows what the rates fro fuel and k/Wh are going to be but if the government tapper the subsidies for electricity after this 6 months then my guess is the costs will be very similar.

[ernieb]

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/charging/electric-car-public-charging-costs-rac-charge-watch/

[lightboxcar]

2 hours ago, Malop said:

If I change that to my over night rate it becomes:

ELECTRIC : 3.2 miles per KWH = (£0.14 / 3.2) = £0.04 / mile

but then if I assume only public charging at InstaVolt (as an example public charging network) with no subscription 

ELECTRIC : 3.2 miles per KWH = (£0.66/ 3.2) = £0.20 / mile

Well the thing is, the Norway guys is saying he's only getting range of 158 miles ( 254Km ) in cold weather.

Does that 'miles per KWH' are going to be a whole lot less ??

And if today's public charging cost is £0.66/Kw, how much could it be after April 2023 when the price guarantee ends ?  Some say it will rise by 74%   https://moneyweek.com/personal-finance/605440/will-energy-prices-go-down

That would equate to : 

ELECTRIC : 3.2 miles per KWH = (£1.15/ 3.2) = £0.36 / mile

Who is going to want an electric car then ???

[Malop]

33 minutes ago, lightboxcar said:

Some say it will rise by 74%

I would assume that since most petrol refinement, storage, distribution and delivery (the petrol pump) requires electricity there will also be an increase in petrol prices to accommodate higher costs. Of course the government is more likely to intercede in petrol prices than EV public charging prices.

If we look at the worst case this year of £1.90 per litre that equates to £8.64 per gallon.  

40 miles per gallon = (  £8.64/gallon / 40 ) = £0.216 / mile

You can see why Toyota keep saying the public isn’t ready for full EV yet and that HEV and PHEV have a place to play. If you replace your 40MPG with 50 or 60 (for HEV) and 282 (for a PHEV like the RAV4) then the numbers skew even more. 

We live in a really unpredictable world for energy at the moment but not all EV drivers are choosing them for lower costs, for some it is about investing in an alternate future. 

Hopefully we’ll all start sharing our real world efficiency here (in one of the many methods of showing it to allow us all to do maths in the posts 😂) and we can get some averages. 

[ernieb]

In fact Toyota’s boss is saying just that and the investment and direction of the company will be on a broad front to cover all car technologies in all appropriate markets and countries. There are plenty of people commenting, example

 

 

[adidev]

On 10/30/2022 at 1:18 PM, lightboxcar said:

ELECTRIC  : e.g 3.2* miles per kw = ( £0.34** / 3.2 ) = £0.10625 / mile
PETROL  @ 40 miles per gallon unleaded

!!! CORRECTED CALCULATION, thank you Cyker :   40 miles per gallon = (  £7.50/gallon (£1.65/ltr) *** / 40 ) = £0.1875 / mile

Current situation at my local service station:

ELECTRIC: 3.2 m/kw => ( £0.79 / 3.2 ) = £0.246875 / mile

PETROL: 40mpg => ( £8.2148/gal (£1.807/L) / 40 ) = £0.20537 = £0.20537 / mile

They are literally trying to kill EV

[philip42h]

At today's local prices and a 37 mpg achieved my RAV4.4 diesel would cost around 22p / mile to run.

Again at today's local prices my RAV4.5 hybrid (petrol) costs me around 16p / mile to run - I achieve around 45 mpg; others may well achieve better.

If I had a bZ4x and charged it at home at my standard variable rate (35p / kWh) it would cost around 11p / mile to run - i.e. half the cost of the diesel or two-thirds the cost of the hybrid so it remains a reasonable proposition at today's prices.

I'm on a standard variable tariff now that my fixed tariff has ended and there are currently no alternative options for me. I was surprised the other day to find that the rate is going up again in January to 36.44p / kWh which will push the cost of running my hypothetical bZ4X to 11.5p / mile.

But here's the interesting bit, that 36.44p / kWh is after the Government discount of 17.39p / kWh arising from the energy price guarantee. Without the discount I would be paying 53.83p / kWh - so a shade over 17p / mile. The energy price guarantee won't last forever ...

The break-even point between a RAV4 hybrid and a bZ4X seems to be around 50p / kWh at today's petrol prices.

[TonyHSD]

With current situation about energy prices the electric cars turned to be dead on arrival and almost make no sense switching to one over what most people have at the moment. When I went to 1.8 hybrid from 1.6 petrol the fuel saving were £2000 a year. The total purchase  cost of the hybrid car was covered in less than 4 years. At the time I did checked and calculate that if I buy Tesla model 3 for  £40k 2018 it will pay off itself by using cheap or widely available at the time free charging points for around 10 years.
Well time has changed and I am glad I didn’t make that move. I can live happily with what I have, most can do too and I think this is the best for everyone, keep your car as long as you can. 👍

[Cyker]

Yeah, I kinda feel bad for EV drivers that were suckered into getting one for the misleading running costs put out by EVangelists. Hopefully they can take solace in the cars themselves - It's not like the cars are suddenly bad if they still fit your use case - That instant torque and response is still really nice!

That said I am still winning my competition with my Model-3 owning friend since they jacked up Supercharger costs to 60p/kWh (!! ) and the winter has killed his range even worse than mine, esp. as he can't pre-heat the car & Battery for optimal performance at the moment because he's mid-move and has no home charging ; I think I'm around 10-11p/mile at the moment vs his 15p-ish?

 

[Gray86]

5 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

With current situation about energy prices the electric cars turned to be dead on arrival and almost make no sense switching to one over what most people have at the moment. When I went to 1.8 hybrid from 1.6 petrol the fuel saving were £2000 a year. The total purchase  cost of the hybrid car was covered in less than 4 years. At the time I did checked and calculate that if I buy Tesla model 3 for  £40k 2018 it will pay off itself by using cheap or widely available at the time free charging points for around 10 years.
Well time has changed and I am glad I didn’t make that move. I can live happily with what I have, most can do too and I think this is the best for everyone, keep your car as long as you can. 👍

My sister has just moved from a MK1 Nissan Leaf (terrible range!) to a Tesla Model S with free lifetime supercharging. There are a few out there which still retain this, they have done 7,000 miles since August . . . All on mr Musk’s tab. The free charging is even in Europe too, so a recent trip to Germany was very cheap. Also Model S is getting towards the bottom of its deprecation curve with these being 8 years old. The drivetrain & Battery seem to last quite well, with loads of taxis with 300+k miles on them. 

The S drives nicely, has lots of tech (theirs has summon) and is a great motorway machine 

can see this being a worthwhile option for those who live on the motorway 

[Cyker]

Oooh you lucky git!!   That is probably the optimum machine to have right now - decent range, free travel!!

If it had CtG you'd be sorted, go charge up for free then go home and power your house from the car!