Just seen this

[Rosgoe]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/20267059/electric-car-forking-hundreds-new-tax/ 

Bound to happen sooner or later they have a £60 billion black hole to fill

[Derek.w]

I see it on other sites but its not happening to 2025/6 tax year.

I suspect the car running with add-blue will have a price rise from the current £30 road tax.

Then again its politics so who knows what will happen by then.

[TonyHSD]

This will perhaps affect only the new cars. I am still on £0 tax with my hybrid since 2010. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Moved to General Club Discussions.

Road tax or some type of replacement for electric cars is inevitable.

Also just because there are previous tax systems currently in place (e.g. Zero tax for some vehicles), there is nothing to prevent Government changing or rationalising systems in the future.

[Mister Mike]

Well, someone has to pay for Liz Truss’s £115K pension!

[Cyker]

To be fair it was inevitable - EV owners don't like to hear it because they're privileged right now, but it's only a matter of time before they get hit with VED and some equivalent of fuel tax too.

TBH car tax should never have been used to incentivize what car you bought in the first place; If they'd stuck with the old two-tier system they wouldn't have been scrambling for money from so many people owning £0-30 tax cars.

I think it's one of the reasons they were so eager to demonize the diesels they originally encouraged us to buy, as they are disproportionately cheap to tax and they clearly didn't think about the consequences; The current system, which is effectively a flat rate for all, is much fairer IMHO.

28 minutes ago, Mister Mike said:

Well, someone has to pay for Liz Truss’s £115K pension!

Oh god do not get me started!!!

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Whilst not entering into any discussion, rights or wrongs, etc on what income ex-PMs should receive, the (up to) £115K is an allowance meant for attending meetings, events, etc, rather than a pension.

Any pension paid would be from the parliamentary contributory defined benefits pension scheme which she would have paid into since becoming a minister. Similar to any defined benefits company scheme that may be out there.

Back to the topic subject please.

[Eddie G]

On 10/30/2022 at 9:36 PM, Rosgoe said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/20267059/electric-car-forking-hundreds-new-tax/ 

Bound to happen sooner or later they have a £60 billion black hole to fill.

Am not surprised at all, the government would tax you every time you blinked! if they could find a way of doing it.

[Max_Headroom]

17 hours ago, Eddie G said:

Am not surprised at all, the government would tax you every time you blinked! if they could find a way of doing it.

Playing devil's advocate why shouldn't they pay road tax they use the same roads as the rest of us. 

[Rhymes with Paris]

And playing an acolyte to Max's devil 😈,why shouldn't cyclists and illegal e scooter riders pay half road tax , seeing as they spend half the time on the roads, and the other half on footpaths?

(And yes I know road tax is now vehicle excise duty)

[Max_Headroom]

Quote

why shouldn't cyclists and illegal e scooter riders pay half road tax 

Because neither use fossil fuel or produce CO2.

How is UK road tax calculated?

Car tax rates are based on fuel type and CO2 emissions. There is a different way to find tax rates for other types of vehicle, including used cars. If you have the V5C reference number for a vehicle, it may be quicker to use the Get vehicle information from DVLA service.

[Cyker]

TBH I'd be less narced about the 2 lane roads I use being reduced to one lane and the other ENTIRE lane being turned into a cycle lane if cyclists contributed a bit, as it feels like I'm paying road tax to have road taken away from me which just doesn't sit right with me...

It's particularly galling that a significant number of cyclists still cycle on the road when they have this massive cycle lane that is empty most of the time...

Then again I'd be happier if cyclists and other un-licensed road users had more culpability for not following the rules of the road... Red lights are NOT optional!!

To be fair most of them are well mannered and considerate, but there's always a few that think the rules don't apply to them because there's no consequences.

[Rhymes with Paris]

30 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

Because neither use fossil fuel or produce CO2.

How is UK road tax calculated?

Car tax rates are based on fuel type and CO2 emissions. There is a different way to find tax rates for other types of vehicle, including used cars. If you have the V5C reference number for a vehicle, it may be quicker to use the Get vehicle information from DVLA service.

Sorry if I misunderstood Max, but I am confused as to whether you think road users should pay for use of the roads,or if you think that the electricity produced by by burning gas to charge electric vehicles does not add to co2 emissions.

[Rhymes with Paris]

48 minutes ago, Cyker said:

TBH I'd be less narced about the 2 lane roads I use being reduced to one lane and the other ENTIRE lane being turned into a cycle lane if cyclists contributed a bit, as it feels like I'm paying road tax to have road taken away from me which just doesn't sit right with me...

It's particularly galling that a significant number of cyclists still cycle on the road when they have this massive cycle lane that is empty most of the time...

Then again I'd be happier if cyclists and other un-licensed road users had more culpability for not following the rules of the road... Red lights are NOT optional!!

To be fair most of them are well mannered and considerate, but there's always a few that think the rules don't apply to them because there's no consequences.

Didn't cyclists in France have number plates at one time?

The main reason I have a dash cam is all the suicidal cyclists and e scooter riders who swing on to the road and back onto the footpath without ever looking.

One day I know, one of these lemmings is going to swing out in front of me, and their "cough" no claim no fee lawyers,is going to claim that it's my fault, and am liable for damages.

 

[Markyswan]

Cyclist pulled straight out in front of me yesterday I don't know how I missed him. He just laughed and went on.

Luky I had the boys on board as I an not sure I would have left it

[Yugguy1970]

It's not "road" tax though is it, it's vehicle excise duty that just goes into the central pot.

So given that ved just allows you to have a car on the road, then yes, why shouldn't all other road users including cyclists have to pay some sort of fee?

[Cyker]

They renamed it and reassigned it but to me that doesn't change what it is.

It's like the Dartford toll - They started calling it a Charge, because a Toll is a legal thing where the fee is used to pay for the project, in this case the bridge. However our Tolls paid that off in what, 2003 IIRC, so the crossing should be FREE, but it's such a money maker they didn't want the Toll to end, so to continue charging us for it they renamed it a Charge instead of a Toll and raised it by what are we up to, I think a quid, quid-50 now?

 

[Rhymes with Paris]

Well, the cyclists and other lightweight vehicles that use the roads, including cars as I understand it, do not cause damage to the sub base of roads, it is HGVs.

So yes,a central pot of govt funding, roads, policing,repairing accident damage etc.

I think it comes down to accountability and identification more than anything,at the moment a criminal can ride about all over a city, doing his drug dealing, thefts and burglary on a push bike with just about zero chance of being identified.

While the rest of us in,or on registered vehicles are on camera all the time, which is fine, but probably these drivers and riders are not the criminals.

[Max_Headroom]

1 hour ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

Sorry if I misunderstood Max, but I am confused as to whether you think road users should pay for use of the roads,or if you think that the electricity produced by by burning gas to charge electric vehicles does not add to co2 emissions.

I was not aware until i read this thread that EV drivers didn't pay road fund licence and i do believe they should pay it as i cannot think of any reason why they shouldn't.

[Rhymes with Paris]

6 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

I was not aware until i read this thread that EV drivers didn't pay road fund licence and i do believe they should pay it as i cannot think of any reason why they shouldn't.

Still don't understand Max,is your stance that road users should pay according to the wear they cause to the roads,as per your edited post.

Or pay according to the current UK system of theoretical co2 emissions.

Ah well, no matter either way, it's taxation and revenue for govt funding.

[Derek.w]

Back in the day of the horse and cart wider wheels do less road damage but wer charged the more than the narrow wheels in road tax.

[Cyker]

EVs don't pay road tax for similar reasons to why we had tax based on CO2 emissions in the previous tax system - They started using the tax system to push car purchases in a certain direction, towards lower emission cars.

However, this caused a massive tax shortfall as everyone switched to low-CO2 cars which generated little to no tax revenue.

Being oblivious to the world in their ivory towers, it took a while for them to realize this was a problem, and they eventually switched the tax to the flat fee we have now, which IMHO is far fairer and more correct.

IMHO, the system should never have been used to incentivize certain types of car in the first place; It's just typical because politicians don't understand how taxes work and what they are for. If something is taxed, it's because a consistent revenues stream is required to fund something. It should never be used to penalize or incentivize something or you risk the exact situation they brought on themselves.

Sadly they didn't learn the lesson completely and left EVs out, which means they will have to change the tax system *again* in the near-mid future as they will be in the exact same situation again by their own shortsightedness.

 

[Max_Headroom]

Quote

Still don't understand Max,is your stance that road users should pay according to the wear they cause to the roads,as per your edited post.

I edited that because i couldn't find a figure for how much modern (AdBlue equipped) HGV's pay in road tax these days,  it used to be in the thousands back in the day not because of what came out of the exhaust but because they did more damage to the roads.

A perfect example of that system being the Reliant 3-wheel cars they used be classed as a motorbike because of the weight so were taxed the same, back then emissions were not considered when they worked out how much you paid in road tax.

Quote

Or pay according to the current UK system of theoretical co2 emissions.

When electricity is generated co2 is produced so having to produce more (as EV's become more popular) is going to cause more co2 and more harm to the enviroment.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

30 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

I edited that because i couldn't find a figure for how much modern (AdBlue equipped) HGV's pay in road tax these days,  it used to be in the thousands back in the day not because of what came out of the exhaust but because they did more damage to the roads.

Seems not to be based on emissions, but a number of factors including:

Vehicle weight, whether rigid or tractor unit, number of axles the rigid/tractor unit has, whether used with or without a trailer, number of trailer axles, with road friendly suspension, without road friendly suspension,  etc, etc.