Tech Too Far?

[Bper]

Based on a number of member posts do you think there is an over use of technology in your car and is it too buggy and unreliable? Would you be happy to have less but more reliable technology that is fully de-bugged before it is implemented into your vehicle?

[Big_D]

In my opinion, less technology in a vehicle would probably still be unreliable. I think it's a case of getting it out sooner, before the opposition gets it out on their car. If it doesn't work, they'll provide a patch or an update. 

[Markyswan]

Funny my boys seem to know more about our cars tech then I do. I would like less myself as I do get fed up keep looking at the owners manual. Sat navs gone wrong a few times and had a problem with the camera.  

[Roy124]

I would actually like more options as there are things I miss.  My previous car Satnav would pop up directions on the centre display.  New model doesn't. 

Old one displayed the map after the  normal warning.  The new one requires lots of button pressed. 

The old Satnav had better colour contrast although the display is more limited.  The new display lacks contrast. 

The old one displayed breadcrumbs, the new one doesn't. 

 

All software controlled items but not available to the user. 

 

[Cyker]

I'm in two minds about this as generally if you want something to be reliable you should have as little software in it as possible, but I think I'd struggle to go back to my Mk1 Yaris now because things like the HUD and all around sensors do really help.

On the flip-side, the constant attempts of the Toyota Safety System trying to gently kill me does get old after a while.

I do like fancy tech in a car, and the HUD was one of the things that swung the Yaris for me (How many other small cars have a HUD??), but I don't like tech for the sake of tech - e.g. touch controls that have no business being in a car when you want controls to be definite and not intermittent.

Any tech should have a clear purpose in aiding the driver, reducing their workload and making things easier and/or faster to do. Things like the HUD, 360 degree cameras, sensors, cruise control are all good examples of this.

Bad examples are things that take control away from the driver unilaterally, and things that make doing stuff harder, like touch controls that require multiple jabs to register, are hard to differentiate, or that trigger if brushed by accident.

The auto-lights are something that get on my wick at this time of year - If I'm sat in the car, the main beams just come on and I can't turn them off so I'm just parked up with my tails lights on and my headlight blazing away and I can't do anything about it. I want an Off position, not just an Auto!

It's things like that that make me feel strongly that any automatic system MUST have an override, because automatic systems never get it right 100% of the time.

 

[Bper]

19 hours ago, Cyker said:

I'm in two minds about this as generally if you want something to be reliable you should have as little software in it as possible, but I think I'd struggle to go back to my Mk1 Yaris now because things like the HUD and all around sensors do really help.

On the flip-side, the constant attempts of the Toyota Safety System trying to gently kill me does get old after a while.

I do like fancy tech in a car, and the HUD was one of the things that swung the Yaris for me (How many other small cars have a HUD??), but I don't like tech for the sake of tech - e.g. touch controls that have no business being in a car when you want controls to be definite and not intermittent.

Any tech should have a clear purpose in aiding the driver, reducing their workload and making things easier and/or faster to do. Things like the HUD, 360 degree cameras, sensors, cruise control are all good examples of this.

Bad examples are things that take control away from the driver unilaterally, and things that make doing stuff harder, like touch controls that require multiple jabs to register, are hard to differentiate, or that trigger if brushed by accident.

The auto-lights are something that get on my wick at this time of year - If I'm sat in the car, the main beams just come on and I can't turn them off so I'm just parked up with my tails lights on and my headlight blazing away and I can't do anything about it. I want an Off position, not just an Auto!

It's things like that that make me feel strongly that any automatic system MUST have an override, because automatic systems never get it right 100% of the time.

 

Do you think that the use of scan tools,techstream etc will become a thing of the past as cars will be able to self diagnose at some stage and fault codes will no longer be required.

And will let you know verbally or digitally on the info screen of HUD. I wonder

[flash22]

New cars are very over assisted

technology in cars doesn't age well and support is non-existent after 5-7 year, we are in the era of a car being a disposable item, it won't be long before systems have expiry dates, the next level obsolescence

[Hornet3D]

I like the tech in modern cars but dislike the other side of the coin when there are so many more items to go wrong.  I hate the programming on some cars, one I saw recently, I think it was a Tesla, you had to use a touch screen for everything, even setting up the timing on the windscreen wipers and the like.

My other dislike is the use of different sounds like chirps and bleeps to relay information as they vary from car to car you often have no idea what the warning is.

My last concern is, as the car gets older, the software is often not supported so you risk having to scrap and mechanically sound car because there is an issue with the software. 

[Hornet3D]

You can see where all this is going when you see the introduction of smart watches that will fail after w few years either because the Battery will no longer hold the charge or the operating system in no longer supported.  This when there are mechanical watches still around that are 100 or more years old.

[Roy124]

Had a thought today.  I would like more software control.  I mentioned display options above, but thinking more. 

Already I can use the App to check my fuel state, tell me where the car is, flash its lights, lock or unlock, and even turn the heater on and off. 

Why can I not monitor the Battery status, check tyre pressures, or have it send me an alert if the alarm starts. 

[Bper]

4 minutes ago, flash22 said:

New cars are very over assisted

technology in cars doesn't age well and support is non-existent after 5-7 year, we are in the era of a car being a disposable item, it won't be long before systems have expiry dates, the next level obsolescence

Hi Bob,

That's one of the reasons I posted the question, however what concerns myself is that whilst new technology is buggy and updates and patches are brought in what about when these cars get older. 

The cost of faulty technology and replacement on older cars which is inevitable may well be horrendous.  This also relates to multiple sensors and wiring looms to serve this equipment. 

[Roy124]

Hornet, I have a digital watch 28 years old and on its 3rd or 4th Battery.  I have a 21 years old solar powered watch.  It is accurate; as an unmonitored digital it is actually more accurate than my radio monitored one. 

Good car tech probably has greater serviceability and longevity than other components. I am thinking things like seats, suspension, metal work etc. 

[flash22]

Nissan/Renault got this down to an art in the early 2010's, 10 year old car not worth repairing as they are over complex, the Germans are on another level tho car with modules run over fibre optics, a cheap BMW is cheap for a reason

[Rhymes with Paris]

7 minutes ago, Hornet3D said:

You can see where all this is going when you see the introduction of smart watches that will fail after w few years either because the battery will no longer hold the charge or the operating system in no longer supported.  This when there are mechanical watches still around that are 100 or more years old.

I like mechanical watches  , I have a 1972 one that still keeps perfect time, although with servicing every 5 years.

The trouble is it won't count my steps on my daily 5 mile walk (yeah right).

And even worse, it won't bleep like a demented, terminally ill, tamagotchi on life support every time I get some useless notification.

[Bper]

20 minutes ago, flash22 said:

New cars are very over assisted

technology in cars doesn't age well and support is non-existent after 5-7 year, we are in the era of a car being a disposable item, it won't be long before systems have expiry dates, the next level obsolescence

Totally agree my concern is how will this technology last in older cars and the cost of replacement and repair. This also relates to the amount of sensors being used. Spoke to a few people who have had either sensors go wrong etc and are shocked at the cost.

 

 

[Bper]

3 minutes ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

I like mechanical watches  , I have a 1972 one that still keeps perfect time, although with servicing every 5 years.

The trouble is it won't count my steps on my daily 5 mile walk (yeah right).

And even worse, it won't bleep like a demented, terminally ill, tamagotchi on life support every time I get some useless notification.

I've got a few watches all in a box, haven't worn one for over 10 years now, got out of the habit but really don't miss one. Never seem to have a problem with time of day either.😀

[Bper]

11 minutes ago, flash22 said:

Nissan/Renault got this down to an art in the early 2010's, 10 year old car not worth repairing as they are over complex, the Germans are on another level tho car with modules run over fibre optics, a cheap BMW is cheap for a reason

I read that as well some years ago. Knew a few people who had beemers and a couple of them had a wheel sensors replacement's and  it was a fortune. Late hundred's if I remember.

[Rhymes with Paris]

13 minutes ago, Bper said:

I've got a few watches all in a box, haven't worn one for over 10 years now, got out of the habit but really don't miss one. Never seem to have a problem with time of day either.😀

Well Bob, I have a relative who really does not know which planet he is on never mind the time.

He said he did not need a watch until he was here one day, and his mobile Battery ran out.

He had to be somewhere at a certain time and a certain place later that day

I pointed out to him that if he knew the exact time,he could calculate his position from eastings and northings,or later on using the North Star.

He just walked off.

[Bper]

2 minutes ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

Well Bob, I have a relative who really does not know which planet he is on never mind the time.

He said he did not need a watch until he was here one day, and his mobile battery ran out.

He had to be somewhere at a certain time and a certain place later that day

I pointed out to him that if he knew the exact time,he could calculate his position from eastings and northings,or later on using the North Star.

He just walked off.

Just wondering 1972 watch would that be an omega. Maybe you should have started to explain north and true north to him.😅

[Rhymes with Paris]

Yes, good guess, I think they are designed to last a hundred years with proper servicing.

Anyhoo, back to topic, my old '64 Anglia always had new points and other bits in the boot to fix problems on trips to Cornwall.

No sensors on it, but it always made it there and back, even with the broken flange on the starter motor (lots of hills in Cornwall).

So tech too far? yes I think so , I would be stuck on Dartmoor nowadays with a faulty plasamastic receiver or something.

 

[Bper]

3 minutes ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

Yes, good guess, I think they are designed to last a hundred years with proper servicing.

Anyhoo, back to topic, my old '64 Anglia always had new points and other bits in the boot to fix problems on trips to Cornwall.

No sensors on it, but it always made it there and back, even with the broken flange on the starter motor (lots of hills in Cornwall).

So tech too far? yes I think so , I would be stuck on Dartmoor nowadays with a faulty plasamastic receiver 

Does your yaris have much tech on it and how do you get on with it

[Cyker]

Self-contained tech I don't mind so much but any car tech that relies on 'The Cloud' can smeg off as far as I'm concerned, as it will only last some years before the manufacturer looses interest and turns off the cloud servers, crippling the car-side of the system.

I've been bitten by that too many times in the computer and games console world, and have no tolerance for it any more.

 

1 hour ago, Bper said:

Do you think that the use of scan tools,techstream etc will become a thing of the past as cars will be able to self diagnose at some stage and fault codes will no longer be required.

And will let you know verbally or digitally on the info screen of HUD. I wonder

Actually I think it will be the opposite - To justify high servicing costs, more and more stuff will be gated behind proprietary diagnostic software and protected by stupid laws like the DMCA and EUCD to stop people reverse engineering third-party alternatives.

Just look at John Deere and Tesla - Their stuff is almost impossible for a third party to fix because it's all locked down with software, and they actively abuse the DMCA in the USA to stop anyone else developing their own tools to interface with the car. 

That is one of the reasons a lot of car enthusiasts are strongly opposed to EVs, as they know that all these software lockouts will stop them being able to modify cars as easily as they can today.

They're already being used to screw owners by having stuff on the car that's software-disabled unless you pay some exorbitant fee - Tesla have done it from day 1, and now BMW are doing it, and if you try and bypass it to enable it yourself, you're a hacker and get a longer jail sentence than a murderer.

Hopefully governments will nip that in the bud before it gets too wide-spread, but I'm not optimistic about it...

 

[dannyboy413]

Some technical stuff is handy to have and liked by me, the automatic cruise control is one thing I can think of, (although living where I do, I do not get a lot of chance to use it!). One thing I dislike, as pointed out by @Cyker, is the auto lights. Since I had the problem of the flat Battery a few months ago, just by watching some music videos, I have got into the habit of leaving the car in 'Ready' mode whilst waiting for my wife to finish work. Normally it is only a few minutes, but, at this time of year, I have to park facing a wall, as the lights are lit - why can we not have an 'Off' switch? Another thing I dislike is the extremely short duration that warning messages are displayed for. At my time of life, I need the warning message to register in my brain/eyesight and then I need to read it - no chance!

 

Addit: Just to clarify, the last sentence was said 'tongue in cheek' I am not that doddery. 😀

Edited November 3, 2022 by dannyboy413
added a bit

[Rhymes with Paris]

14 hours ago, Bper said:

Does your yaris have much tech on it and how do you get on with it

Well, apart from what I would call "modern" stuff like fuel injection, electronic ignition and presumably an ecu , not much AFAIK.

A trip computer,if that is tech nowadays.

I am more happy though with what it does not have, such as touch screens, TPMS,stop start, auto lights and wipers, and all the bings and bongs that seems to be normal on newer cars.

I have a stand alone TomTom and dash cam as added tech , but these are easy to use and easily moved to another car if needed.

[Yugguy1970]

I've no objection to any tech in principle, but I want the ability to turn it off if I want.

I read something about the new Corolla:  Acceleration Supression - reacts to sudden use of the accelerator at low speed.  What the hell????  What if I NEED to accelerate?  If I can turn this off, fine, if not, not sure I want my new Corolla...