EV Driving Questions and Tips

[Malop]

Based on other posts I thought it might be useful to start a section in EV driving.

Subjects covered so far in this thread:

1. Charging and useful apps
2. One pedal driving mode
3. Pre-heating of car
4. 12 volt Battery

 

My first suggestion is to download two apps

1. Zap-maps
2. A Better Route Planner also known as ABRP

ABRP lets you plan a route, enter details of your state of charge (SoC) at start and end and then it plans charge points providing details of how long to stop and how long to charge for. You can set preferences on charging network and whether you want a stop with refreshments, toilets etc.

I also recommend getting the Instavolt app and one of their RFID cards (which means not having to fiddle with your phone in wet weather) as these are the charging points at McDonalds and other fast food places. 
 

Finally get at least one multi-network app and RFID card like PlugSurfing, Bonnet,  Zap-Map or Electroverse (the Octopus Energy app).  
 

Range anxiety is real but a bit of planning and preparation can lessen it significantly. I’ve done 300-400 mile trips in EVs and had no problems, the charge stops have been a nice rest and I’ve ended my journey much more refreshed. 

[lightboxcar]

This is an excellent section.

We have zero experience if any form of EV / PHEV.  and our new bz4x is due very soon !

Am sure many others will be in the same postion and in need of information.

For example, appreciate this is quite a basic question, but can you not just use your normal debit/credit payment card at these chargers ?

[AJones]

38 minutes ago, lightboxcar said:

For example, appreciate this is quite a basic question, but can you not just use your normal debit/credit payment card at these chargers ?

For the 7kW fast chargers generally no, they typically don't have payment card readers so you need to have an account, either with the specific charging network or a roaming service that works with that network and pay using an app or RFID card linked to your account.

[Cyker]

Yeah things like that are essential as you can't just go on a long trip on a whim like you can in an ICE car - You have to plan ahead, seeing where you can charge and having backup charge locations in case your original charge location is full/out of order.

Those apps are good as they crowd-source data, so people will usually note if a charger is working or not, which helps with the planning.

They also show things like the cost of the charger, which often isn't displayed anywhere until you actually start charging, and the type of charger, which is important as a lot of them still require you to be a member or have a special tag.

The government was supposed to be forcing them all to accept contactless card payments, but in reality that's not really worked and you pretty much have to be a member or have the right app installed for the vast majority of chargers, and even the ones that do accept contactless will charge you far more than they would if you're a member and/or use their app/tag instead.

I hope that legislation changes that, as the current situation is just ridiculous - It's currently considered normal for the charger companies to force people to install a different app for different charge points just to be able to use them, or be a member to get preferential pricing, and that needs to change - We've never had to do that at fuel stations and there is absolutely no excuse for such disgustingly exploitative gouging with chargers.

If you don't have a smart phone or a handful of proprietary tags you basically can't use 90% of the chargers and that needs to be fixed - It should be just as easy if not easier than buying fuel, but they've somehow made something that should be even easier than a petrol pump practically require a diploma to get working...

 

 

[lightboxcar]

6 minutes ago, AJones said:

RFID card

So an RFID card is like your contactless payment card, just it's tied to a particuar charging network/provider ?

[Cyker]

4 minutes ago, lightboxcar said:

So an RFID card is like your contactless payment card, just it's tied to a particuar charging network/provider ?

Yarp! Generally you set up an account with that particular company, and they send you the fob/tag/card which is tied to your account, so when you use the charger it gets added to your account and you get billed e.g. monthly or whatever for whatever you've used.

These days most of them don't send out an actual physical RFID/fob, but instead you have to install an app on your phone and put your account details in to do the same thing through your phone's contactless system.

 

 

[Mister Mike]

11 minutes ago, AJones said:

For the 7kW fast chargers generally no, they typically don't have payment card readers so you need to have an account, either with the specific charging network or a roaming service that works with that network and pay using an app or RFID card linked to your account.

7kW isn't fast! Unless you want to hang around all day waiting for your car to charge.

[Cyker]

He's just using the official but idiotic terms, like how USB's transfer speeds are stupidly and unhelpfully named 'High Speed' and 'Full Speed', and when USB3 came out instead of fixing this daft naming scheme they double-down with SuperSpeed and now SuperSpeed+

This is why marketing people should NEVER be allowed to name things.

Back on topic... so car chargers have similarly obtuse official names:

Officially, 'Fast chargers' are 7kW-22kW AC

and 'Rapid chargers' are the 50+kW DC ones.

And because again instead of fixing the terrible naming scheme they're doubling down and now we have 'High Power' chargers, which are 100kW+

Seriously, whoever names things like this needs to be beaten up in a dark alley.

[lightboxcar]

1 hour ago, Malop said:

recommend getting the Instavolt app

Looking here https://instavolt.co.uk/rates/

the rate is £0.66/Kw, seems quite a bit more than home electric cost

Is that fairly typical of what we can expect to pay for public chargers ?

[Mister Mike]

13 minutes ago, Cyker said:

If you don't have a smart phone or a handful of proprietary tags you basically can't use 90% of the chargers.

It's really pathetic that you can't just roll up anywhere to a charger in the UK and use Apple Pay. I guess the Toyota Public Charging Network might take care of some of the pain.

I checked out GridServe's facility near Braintree a few months ago and was quite impressed with what I saw. Loads of ultrafast chargers and you can use Apple Pay. We need loads more facilities like this across the UK.

[lightboxcar]

3 minutes ago, Mister Mike said:

GridServe's facility near Braintree

Wow, just looked at that, brilliant, completely agree that's exactly what is needed at scale ASAP !

[Cyker]

2 minutes ago, lightboxcar said:

Looking here https://instavolt.co.uk/rates/

the rate is £0.66/Kw, seems quite a bit more than home electric cost

Is that fairly typical of what we can expect to pay for public chargers ?

Sadly yes, this is why IMHO there is no point owning an EV if your goal is low running costs unless you can charge at home.

There is some variation - Some haven't updated their prices so there are still some that can charge at 50kW for 30p/kW, but with most of them the price is roughly double what the domestic rate is.

If you're lucky, there might still be free chargers around - I know people that often go to their local library for a few hours as they have a free 22kW charger and they can read some books to pass the time - but all of the rapid chargers are like 50p+ now I think.

It's partly why I decided to wait until a genuine 300+mile Yaris-sized EV exists as I want to charge at home for 99% of the time - It's cheaper and more convenient - and only use the extortionate public chargers on the rare occasion I go on a long road trip.

 

Just now, Mister Mike said:

It's really pathetic that you can't just roll up anywhere to a charger in the UK and use Apple Pay. I guess the Toyota Public Charging Network might take care of some of the pain.

I checked out GridServe's facility near Braintree a few months ago and was quite impressed with what I saw. Loads of ultrafast chargers and you can use Apple Pay. We need loads more facilities like this across the UK.

Agreed, although not just ApplePay - The government needs to force them all to support universal contactless payment for all major contactless systems and at a fixed rate, none of this preferential tier BS.

 

[Mister Mike]

6 minutes ago, lightboxcar said:

Looking here https://instavolt.co.uk/rates/

the rate is £0.66/Kw, seems quite a bit more than home electric cost

Is that fairly typical of what we can expect to pay for public chargers ?

That seems to be the going rate. About double what you'd pay at home, unfortunately.

[AJones]

10 minutes ago, Mister Mike said:

7kW isn't fast! Unless you want to hang around all day waiting for your car to charge.

When discussing EV charging "Fast" means a Type 2 AC charger, normally 7kW or more. If you search for "Fast" chargers in an app, that's what you get. It's not a personal opinion on their speed.

The next step up are "Rapid" chargers, DC chargers, with either Chademo and/or CCS connectors, charging at 50+kW.

[Cyker]

Yeah, it's always been the case that public chargers are double or more the domestic rate; The problem is because the domestic rate has gone up, they have too!

Hopefully when we can move to cheaper electricity sources like nuclear, solar and wind and stop relying on gas, which the price of electricity is currently tied to for some godawful reason, domestic costs will drop which should also cause public charger rates to drop too. (Well, most of them anyway; IIRC the ionity 'high power' chargers were already a astonishingly shameless 70p/kW before the price hikes!)

[lightboxcar]

3 minutes ago, AJones said:

Chademo and/or CCS connectors,

Looking at the BZ4X owners manual , it says the connector on the car is :

AC EN 62196-2 TYPE 2

DC EN 62196-3 FF

Think that means it has two connectors, one for home use, and one for public charger ??

Does that rule out us uisng Chademo / CSS connectors for our bz4x ?

[Mister Mike]

8 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Agreed, although not just ApplePay - The government needs to force them all to support universal contactless payment for all major contactless systems and at a fixed rate, none of this preferential tier BS.

I agree. I just mention Apple Pay because I rarely take my wallet and physical cards out with me these days. Most places, I can just point my phone at something to pay for what I need.

[AJones]

3 minutes ago, lightboxcar said:

Looking at the BZ4X owners manual , it says the connector on the car is :

AC EN 62196-2 TYPE 2

DC EN 62196-3 FF

Think that means it has two connectors, one for home use, and one for public charger ??

Does that rule out us uisng Chademo / CSS connectors for our bz4x ?

The AC type 2 connector is what you will use when charging at home, from your home charge point or even a granny cable occassionally and if you use a public type 2 "fast" AC chargers.

The DC connector on the BZ4x is CCS I believe, for use when using rapid chargers. This is the latest standard for DC rapid charging and is widespread. Chademo is the older standard.

[lightboxcar]

6 minutes ago, AJones said:

The DC connector on the BZ4x is CCS

According to te manual it looks like this :

[Cyker]

11 minutes ago, lightboxcar said:

Looking at the BZ4X owners manual , it says the connector on the car is :

AC EN 62196-2 TYPE 2

DC EN 62196-3 FF

Think that means it has two connectors, one for home use, and one for public charger ??

Does that rule out us uisng Chademo / CSS connectors for our bz4x ?

Almost all modern EVs use CCS, which combines the Type 2 connector with 2 big chunky conductors for high-powered DC charging. There is usually a split plug, so you open the top part to use Type 2, and open both parts to use the full CCS (Which is massive!)

The bz4x uses CCS.

Chademo is a japanese standard which is pretty much dead over here; AFAIK Nissan was the only major manufacturer to use it in the Leaf.

[AJones]

1 minute ago, Cyker said:

Chademo is a japanese standard which is pretty much dead over here; AFAIK Nissan was the only major manufacturer to use it in the Leaf.

Lexus use it on their UX300e EV, and that's a relatively recent model!

2 minutes ago, lightboxcar said:

According to te manual it looks like this :

Yes that's a CCS socket, the current standard. 

[Cyker]

7 minutes ago, AJones said:

Lexus use it on their UX300e EV, and that's a relatively recent model!

Oh good shout I'd forgotten about that one.

I think that was a bad mistake tho' - I really don't know why they chose that connector as it will increasingly limit the car's access to public DC chargers as time goes on as the vast majority of new installations are CCS.

 

[swoop5511]

9 hours ago, Mister Mike said:

That seems to be the going rate. About double what you'd pay at home, unfortunately.

There are quite a few charge plans available. Some with subs to reduce costs, but only worth it if you do a lot of highway miles and need to charge while on the road

Here is bonnet's pricing. quite large network 

https://www.joinbonnet.com/pricing

I should be able to cover 90%+ of my journeys with charging from home or work. For the odd longer journey I have signed up to:

Bonnet Pay as you go which works via app only. Scan QR code of the charger to unlock.

Shell recharge. Works via App and RFID card. Again Pay as you go. 

Toyota Charge Network. This one has a £4.99 per month sub, but as buyer of the BZ you get 6 months free. I will probably cancel after the 6months. Also comes with an RFID card

[W id]

Question. I saw this on the bz4x questions on Toyota mag. Why is this. Why would the range drop because of fast charging?

[Malop]

I don’t know the full details behind it but from what I have been able to understand it’s to do with how the Battery charge is spread out across the batteries as Battery life is measured by charge and discharge cycles. 

Apparently Rapid Charging affects the lifecycle whilst Fast (home charging) allows a more controlled distribution of the charge. 

I believe Toyota have made the decision to control rapid DC charging more strongly than competitors to focus on the Battery lifetime.