Rav 4 will not crank after battery replacement

[kokkios]

Hello people.

Car is a 2017 Diesel Rav4.

 

Battery was dead and went and bought a new one. It started ok 3-4 times within the first but decided to return it because it was only 60amps. I got the new one 95Amps.

I installed it and the car started once so i let it be. When i returned 2 hours later the car wouldn't crank. Battery was showing 12.6V. I thought it was a faulty Battery. Returned it and got a new one from a different place. Again no cranking. When i go to crank the car lights in the dash stay on. 

Its driving me crazy! Please help 

[IanML]

One possibility is the starter motor solenoid is defective.  Another is the ignition keyswitch contact.

[Derek.w]

Starter motor solenoid or starter motor brushes or starter motor with a dead point on its rotor.

[RAV4-D4D]

How confident are you that you didn't short the Battery during fitting? Could you have fried the electronics? Are you certain the terminals on the Battery were the right way round on all the ones you've fitted?

Have you checked fuses/relays on the starter circuit?

What make/model of Battery have you fitted? How many CCA does it have and what did the original have?

[DerekHa]

The fact your dash lights stay when you turn the key to turn the engine over indicates your starter isn't being engaged so isn't drawing any current. One sign of a bad Battery is having the headlights on and trying to start and the headlights dimming right down and the car not starting, just the opposite of your symptoms!

As others have said either a faulty ignition switch, starter soleniod or perhaps you've not connected all the Battery cables correctly or a broken Battery cable.

I'm not familiar with the Rav4 but it seems that there are fusible links associated with main battery 12v supply. Found a previous post on here which sounds like it might be a similar situation to yours. Here's the link to that, it might help you make a start tracking the fault down.

 

[kokkios]

Thank you all for your replies

I was very careful when i trickle charged the Battery and connected it the right way. Anyway it started once on the new big replacement battery  normally and then without me opening the bonnet it refused to start the next time 

Only thing i can think of is when they gave me a wrong Battery for the model since it was physically smaller i had go force the cables to reach the Battery and attach to it. I may have pulled some wire or something. 

Two mechanics i talked to on the phone basically agree with the ideas you threw at me here. One said probably its a starter issue and the other said because the car only has 60k miles its probably a bad cable 

 

[kokkios]

 

 

[RAV4-D4D]

Looking at the video the engine management light may be on, I don't have this generation of car to know what the lights do during the start up sequence, but would it normally have gone off by now. If you think it is on then a code scan is worthwhile.

Also, do you have an immobiliser light on the car? If there any possibility that the immobiliser is still activated?

I'd be tempted to disconnect the Battery, leave for 15-30mins (longer the better) and then reconnect and see if the car fires up. I'd do this just in case the engine management system is a bit confused from all the Battery comings and goings. But check fuses and relays just to rule them out.

Was the engine hot or cold when it started the first time on the current Battery you have in it?

Can you confirm which battery you've fitted please.

 

[kokkios]

OEM battery: Yuasa 80Amp 

Battery replacement 1: Exide 60Amp CCA525 Physically smaller size. Car started normally 4-5 times but taken out and returned next day.

Battery replacement 2: Exide EL954  95 Amp CCA: 800A. Started the first time and then nothing. Believed the Battery was problematic and returned to shop.

Battery replacement 3: Varta 85 Amp CCA800A No response .Still have this battery connected.

 

I dont remember how the dash lights actually go on  and off 

Before installing the last battery battery replacement 2 was disconnected for a few hours as i took the battery off to take it back to the shop and get a refund.

The car was cold when it started with Battery 2. 

Is there any argument against trying to push the car and try to start it in 2nd gear?

[DerekHa]

Hi Constantinos,

Regatrding your video and the EML light, my belief is that the light will come on with the ignition and will only go out once the engine has started as the system can't run it's checks until the engine is running. So that EML of yours is normal.

Also there's an old post on here regarding a Battery change on the RAV4. Seems that some catalogues list the wrong style of Battery for the vehicle and the positive and negative terminal are positioned opposite to that required, connecting one would likely kill the ecu. Doubt you've done that as the dash illuminates ok.

Checking all the fuses, relays, fusible links is good advice. Disconnecting the Battery for 15 minutes could work wonders just like it does with a PC that's thrown a wobbley, turning off at the mains often returns normal service.

[Gerg]

Plenty of good ideas above.

I don't own a RAV4, but my bets at this stage would go on the fault highlighted in DerekHa's earlier posting - specifically the much older thread he's linked to within his earlier post.

If the fusible link shown in DerekHa's post is below 100% integrity, then a new Battery on a cold engine might just be enough to blow the fusible link.

I have an idea an immobliser fault would still allow the engine to spin over, but prevent it from actually firing up.  Well, that's seems to be the case on our older petrol Toyota Corolla - you can turn the engine over as much as you like with the 'valet' key.

[DerekHa]

Just seen your latest post Constantinos.

If you try a bump start (pushing the car) and it fires up then you'll know your problems are with starter, soleniod or ignition switch. You can't do any harm trying that at least.

[DerekHa]

Here's the link regarding the old post on changing the battery:-

 

[kokkios]

This is a great forum. Getting all these responses by members trying to help me out is outstanding. Thank you

Polarity of the batteries used was correct. I was paying attention when installing them.

All fuses checked out ok. Relays i still need to check

Maybe i should try again disconnecting the Battery and give one last go at it before bump starting it tomorrow when a few mates will be around

[Rosgoe]

Check all your earth connections I have know a engine not  to crank because of a bad earth you usually just get a click from the solenoid?

[kokkios]

UPDATE - SOLVED

Today a friend of mine and mechanic came by to see whats wrong with the car. He got inside and the car fired up first try. I let it run and when my friend left i took the car and went for a nice saturday morning coffee

When leaving from there the car would not start. Same problem. I called road assist and they came and picked the car up. They took the car at my friends garage. 

An hour later my friend calls me and says the car is starting up just fine. He did it repeatedly. 

After discussing it  for a few minutes on the phone we found the culprit. Its many times the silliest simplest things. 

I ruptured my Achilles tendon and had surgery. I am now 8 weeks post op and have to wear a special boot to keep the tendon from flexing too much. You guessed it. Because of the boots size i dont compress fully the clutch thus not triggering the clutch switch. I am now guessing my OEM Yuasa Battery is still in working order and could have survived a couple of years more. After this whole ordeal and 175 euros for a new Battery we come to this conclusion. Live and learn i guess. 

 

 

[NASY]

Pleased you have a result. Seems like the Achilles heel in the RAV's starting system really is just that. I wish you well in your rehab.

 

[flash22]

Well that's a new one to add to the book

[dannyboy413]

Owner, "My car won't start".

Mechanic, "Have you tried (this), (that) and (other)?"

Customer, "Done all that".

Mechanic, "How big is your footwear?". 😀

[Rosgoe]

Yea I found on the rav T180 I had you had to push the clutch right to the floor to get it to start. I’ve never understood why you have to anyway all the manual cars I have ever owned I never pushed the clutch in before starting it and with these modern oils in the gearbox I can’t believe that it creates that much extra drag on the starter motor I do get it though from a safety point that if you left it in gear.

[Cyker]

Haha that's a good one!! Glad you figured out what it was, that was an obscure one to be sure!  

Hope you heal up soon, anything to do with tendons or ligaments is nasty to sort out...  

 

32 minutes ago, Rosgoe said:

Yea I found on the rav T180 I had you had to push the clutch right to the floor to get it to start. I’ve never understood why you have to anyway all the manual cars I have ever owned I never pushed the clutch in before starting it and with these modern oils in the gearbox I can’t believe that it creates that much extra drag on the starter motor I do get it though from a safety point that if you left it in gear.

I think it's mainly a safety precaution, to stop people accidentally driving into people/walls/lamp-posts because they tried to crank the car while still in 1st.

My instructor pulled that trick on me once, left it in 1st when he parked up to see if I was doing my checks properly. Turns out I wasn't. After that I always did the "Neutral-Waggle" before starting the car!!  

It's also better for the car - Even in neutral, the engine is connected to the transmission. By pushing in the clutch, you disconnect the engine from the transmission and the engine can be cranked without having to spin the whole mass of the transmission and flywheel, which means it can start far easier, puts less stress on the starter motor and uses less energy from the 12v Battery.