Aygo X CVT

[phillev]

Just wanted some thoughts and opinions on the CVT box from other owners. I've had mine now just over a week and around town it's great and so much better than the old X-shift model which in comparison would now feel pretty agricultural and fuel economy seems excellent using a light right foot. Now my only complaint or should I say worry is that bearing in mind my car isn't even on 80 miles yet is that the times I have had to give it a bit of Welly such as hills and motorway slip roads trying to keep up with traffic is the huge surge in revs sometimes getting up to 5k and I'm pretty sure on a new engine this isn't good. Lucky that most of my driving is town based and I do have a feather light right foot but on these odd occasions when it's the CVT version of kick down those revs fly up.

[Rosgoe]

I wouldn’t worry to much about the rev’s climbing high when I first had my corolla I had approx 200 miles on the clock and was going up telegraph hill towards Devon on the m5 with luggage and passengers rev’s climbed to just over 5000rpm in sport mode engine seemed to not suffer from any I’ll effects.

these modern engines are much better manufactured to cope with these situations. I can remember a time when if you had a new car or new engine you had a sticker in the rear window (saying please pass running in) .

what I would say is that the Manual  version of the aygo x is much better suited to motorway driving I had one as a courtesy car and was impressed with it on the motorway.

[TonyHSD]

I think you may not need to rev up to 5k rpm when joining motorway or going uphill. Of you need to floor it you can do so to the floor for a brisk time and then quickly release down to 4k, or perhaps you can just rise to 4k and wait for the car to speed match the engine rpm and then release a bit to lower the rpm’s. Whoever is on rush behind can wait or overtake if safe to do so. Keeping up with traffic in today’s environment means that no cvt or Toyota hybrids any engine size are really capable of keeping up with the fast lane madness of vans, lorries, or management fleet. 

[phillev]

Possibly a bit paranoid because it's a new car and I'm worried that the two or three times it's happened that because the engine is so new it might affect the longevity of some of the moving components, I guess at least it hasn't happened while the engine was stone cold.

[TonyHSD]

43 minutes ago, phillev said:

Possibly a bit paranoid because it's a new car and I'm worried that the two or three times it's happened that because the engine is so new it might affect the longevity of some of the moving components, I guess at least it hasn't happened while the engine was stone cold.

No worries about higher rpm for a short time. Actually these small engines are designed to work at higher rpm than the bigger ones therefore as long as you not into the red line you will be alright. If you have noticed before 3k the engine is even quieter than usual and then after 3k you can hear it’s voice. 👍

[phillev]

No thank goodness it didn't get that high and the rev limiter didn't cut in, just took me by surprise by how much the CVT box let's it rev when you need some go! Having just watched some on YouTube it's the norm for these.

[Cyker]

That 3-pot 1KR is pretty rev-happy even in the original Aygo so I'd not be overly concerned. I do find in my Mk4 it's better to not suddenly floor it, but progressively push the accelerator and, as the car 'catches up', progressively push it more.

If I just stamp on the accelerator I get that nasty CVT-rubberband feel of the engine revs spiking but it doesn't feel like the acceleration is there for the amount of noise it's making - It feels like it's over-revving like the clutch is slipping and the car is not 'pulling'.

If I briskly but gradually increase accelerator pressure, the revs climb in a more natural-sounding way and the car feels like it's pulling harder and more continuously.

Might be different on the Aygox CVT tho' as, although they are both technically CVTs the mechanisms are totally different!

TBH, it's good for the engine to see the full rev range now and then, as if it's only driven at low RPM there's a small risk you'll get a slight lip forming at the top end of the cylinder, because the cylinder never gets to 'stretch' up that far.

[TonyHSD]

1 minute ago, Cyker said:

That 3-pot 1KR is pretty rev-happy even in the original Aygo so I'd not be overly concerned. I do find in my Mk4 it's better to not suddenly floor it, but progressively push the accelerator and, as the car 'catches up', progressively push it more.

If I just stamp on the accelerator I get that nasty CVT-rubberband feel of the engine revs spiking but it doesn't feel like the acceleration is there for the amount of noise it's making - It feels like it's over-revving like the clutch is slipping and the car is not 'pulling'.

If I briskly but gradually increase accelerator pressure, the revs climb in a more natural-sounding way and the car feels like it's pulling harder and more continuously.

Might be different on the Aygox CVT tho' as, although they are both technically CVTs the mechanisms are totally different!

TBH, it's good for the engine to see the full rev range now and then, as if it's only driven at low RPM there's a small risk you'll get a slight lip forming at the top end of the cylinder, because the cylinder never gets to 'stretch' up that far.

Hybrids are slightly different. When you need all power available best to push quickly and sharply to the floor and the system will react better and more power from the electric motor will be delivered, the car comes to life surprisingly well, if your Battery has a good charge you may also feel turbo like push into the seat backrest. If you do that on motorway at high speeds you will also notice hybrid Battery drain a lot and stays low for some time after that. 😉

[Cyker]

Hmm, may be a generation difference as mine doesn't do that - If I floor it the whole car bogs down for a split-second before the engine rapidly spins up to redline, but there's a noticeable delay before I get any 'shove'. It's almost exactly like that thing I talked about in another thread, where I was trying to explain why I don't like 'normal' automatics, because if you try and launch one from a standstill at e.g. a busy roundabout, the car doesn't know what to do for a split second, then figures itself out and catapults you into the car you would have been well in front of if it had gone when you floored it  

I find I get a much faster, near instant, response if I'm more progressive with the pedal, and as a bonus the engine doesn't go straight to screaming, but speeds up in a more progressive and audibly pleasing way.

Just thought it may also be because I'm usually in Eco mode - I'll have to see if that behaviour changes in Normal/Power mode one day!

 

[phillev]

So hopefully the consensus is that although the car has only done 60 odd miles from new these high rpm spikes 4-5k  I've had are not going to cause any wear issues in the long term? I may have this car a while and I'm hoping it won't have affected the bedding in process.

[TonyHSD]

34 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Hmm, may be a generation difference as mine doesn't do that - If I floor it the whole car bogs down for a split-second before the engine rapidly spins up to redline, but there's a noticeable delay before I get any 'shove'. It's almost exactly like that thing I talked about in another thread, where I was trying to explain why I don't like 'normal' automatics, because if you try and launch one from a standstill at e.g. a busy roundabout, the car doesn't know what to do for a split second, then figures itself out and catapults you into the car you would have been well in front of if it had gone when you floored it  

I find I get a much faster, near instant, response if I'm more progressive with the pedal, and as a bonus the engine doesn't go straight to screaming, but speeds up in a more progressive and audibly pleasing way.

Just thought it may also be because I'm usually in Eco mode - I'll have to see if that behaviour changes in Normal/Power mode one day!

 

Oh well, eco mode is no go for me. I am sure this is the reason why the car behaves like that and it’s different from mine. Toyota hybrids might have some difference between generations but they are very similar and work on same principles therefore they behave very similarly. The extra power when floor it comes from mg1 as this not only locks with the engine speed but also spins in opposite direction to create extra torque and pulling power. You can try in normal or sort power mode and you will see the difference. I love driving in normal mode and in roundabouts and junctions I have instant response and brisk acceleration. I am use to the car so much that I can even faked a gear changes like in dsg sport car but smoother, although there is no real benefit of that except for fun👍

[Cyker]

Maybe I'll give it a go one day, but I'm too used to Eco mode now and find Normal and Power mode too sensitive, and I'm scared I'll send it off to the moon if I sneeze  

It's definitely harder to crawl through slow traffic in the other modes - With Eco mode, changing speed by half-an-mph is easier because it needs so much more pedal deflection.

 

[TonyHSD]

55 minutes ago, phillev said:

So hopefully the consensus is that although the car has only done 60 odd miles from new these high rpm spikes 4-5k  I've had are not going to cause any wear issues in the long term? I may have this car a while and I'm hoping it won't have affected the bedding in process.

No need to worry about it. It has been thought of when the had designed the car therefore no trouble going higher rpm. No good to do so when engine is cold though, when normal operating temperature has been reached it’s ok to push it. 

[nielshm]

Small engines with low torque and a CVT box is a bad match. Revs will fly high, even if speed and acceleration is moderate. 

My old Auris 1.2T was not so bad with CVT. The turbo gives decent torque with low revs, and the gearbox was not to bad. Still, revs could easily go to 4000 rpms when pushing a bit more than gentle acceleration. 

[Cyker]

TBH I think CVTs are a better match for weaker engines - They can't  really handle a lot of torque, esp. sudden bursts of it, but they can let the engine operate more in its comfort zone and the weaker engine is much less likely to damage it from trying to put too much torque through it. It's orders of magnitude better suited than the old MMT system, that's for sure!

CVTs always tend to be very revvy, its just their nature as they jump to whatever power your right-foot demands, rather than progressively getting there as would happen with fixed gears.

I've found myself artificially simulating that progressiveness with my right foot, so instead of just planting it like I would in my manual cars and letting the engine build up, I briskly but progressively increase the accelerator input so the car still accelerates quickly but without that nasty rev spike.

 

[Tel 2]

In the Lexus CVT application, the CVT transmission with its larger engines is butter smooth up to 3 figure speeds.

Drive up the Alps I get 25mpg whilst travelling down I achieve c.50. whilst maximum mpg in the UK is c.42 mpg.

My Aygo X mirrors my NX in many instances given it is slower & noisier when rushed.

Holds its own in Lane 3 & delivers c.55mpg.

Tel

[phillev]

I just don't like the thought of my poor little new engine revving too hard, guess it's my OCD kicking in and yes I am a genuine sufferer so it's probably exaggerated the worry lol.

[Hybrid21]

I found this phenomenon a bit disconcerting when joining the motorway wishing to get up to speed quickly.

But on the advice of posts on the forum I put her into sport mode when joining and no problem at all. She shoots up to 70mph like a rocket if I so desire 😃

[Cyker]

20 minutes ago, phillev said:

I just don't like the thought of my poor little new engine revving too hard, guess it's my OCD kicking in and yes I am a genuine sufferer so it's probably exaggerated the worry lol.

I know what you mean - As a diesel person, I'm used to going no higher than 2000rpm, maybe 3000 tops if I'm really 'ragging' it, so going back to the petrol world, where they have absolutely no pull until above 3000rpm, took a lot of getting used to!!

It helped that I started really hating my Mk2, so all mechanical sympathy went out the window and I'd just send it up to 6000rpm in some vain attempt to get some diesel-like pull out of it, but as I like my Mk4, it makes me cringe if I push the pedal a bit too much and it jumps to the redline!! I do like the sound of the 3-pot when it's given some beans tho'   The Mk2 had a nice buttery smooth 4-pot engine, but the growly 3 cylinder has a lot of 'character'  

 

[Hybrid21]

My last car, a Volvo XC60 2litre twin turbo diesel with the geartronic auto 8 speed gearbox went like a rocket.

I do miss the instant acceleration and smooth quick gearchanges 😃

Really well put together vehicle and pleasure to own and drive, but at 6 years old I decided to change it even although it had only done 30K miles.

Don't regret buying my RAV4, entirely different vehicle and still a pleasure to drive 👍

[Cyker]

Yeah it's really painful when you've been exposed to the raw low-end torque of a turbodiesel engine, to go back to a gutless NA petrol engine  

I must admit feeling very smug every time I just planted it in gear and just powered past other cars on an uphill in my tiny Yaris Mk1 while they were down-shifting  

I'm so glad the Mk4 absolutely doesn't feel gutless and has scratched my itch for that instant torque once more!  

Yay for electric motors!  

[TonyHSD]

I am painfully used to Toyota hybrids way of drive and if I move away will be a switch to full ev, or give up driving as much as I do now and buy something manual for occasional fun drives 🏎🏁