Range test shows really bad results

[lightboxcar]

12 minutes ago, swoop5511 said:

now consistently getting 4.1-4.2m per KW

Thank you , this is great news !!

 

[rfrancis073]

This was posted in the bZ4X forums by mrjon (not sure if they post here or not) FWIW:

Quote

Based on what a dealer here in Norway has stated, a software update is coming that is supposed to increase the range as well as a press release soon regarding the situation as well.

 

[W id]

According to elbil24 (the tester) Toyota will come with a response today. 
 

Elbil24):

UPDATED 11.11: Toyota has promised to provide a comment and explanation on the results, which will be published here on Ev24 later today.

[W id]

1 hour ago, W id said:

According to elbil24 (the tester) Toyota will come with a response today. 
 

Elbil24):

UPDATED 11.11: Toyota has promised to provide a comment and explanation on the results, which will be published here on Ev24 later today.

It’s here. Toyota norways official response after consulting Toyota Europe and Japan. 
not sure if I’m any wiser. 
 

Toyota's comments related to range test from Ev24:

"At Toyota, we value customer feedback. The concerns related to range and consumption discussed in the EV24 article are given the highest priority.

Actual range is influenced by several different factors. In addition to the Battery capacity and the battery's regeneration charge, the use of the air conditioner, as well as external factors such as the outside temperature, will also affect consumption and available range.

We would also like to point out that Toyota has a policy of setting as accurate a range as possible regardless of whether the car runs on gasoline or electricity, taking into account the external factors such as outdoor temperature and the use of the air conditioner with various temperature settings, as mentioned in the article.

At the same time, for the bZ4X, as for other Toyota models, there is also a range buffer, which gives customers peace of mind if they find themselves in a situation with 0 kilometers of stated range and without the possibility to charge immediately. When the display shows 0 kilometers of range on the bZ4X, the Battery will have up to 8.2 percent remaining capacity. This value is indicative, and will vary up and down depending on many factors, and therefore it is also difficult to determine the number of available kilometers before the Battery is completely empty. Before the battery runs out and the car stops completely, performance and maximum speed will decrease when the available battery capacity becomes critically low.

Toyota is known for its quality and reliability, which is continued with the bZ4X. The quality, durability and reliability of the car and battery are achieved through continuous monitoring and control of battery charging and consumption, as well as total utilized capacity. Thanks to these measures, we offer one million kilometres of extended battery safety, which guarantees capacity over the first ten years of the car's lifetime.

This provides security for customers and benefits the environment.

We recognize the importance of balancing ev performance, durability and reliability to deliver the best peace of mind to our customers. We will continue to provide necessary information and updates on this topic in the future."

[Parts-King]

I cannot understand why anybody would run the range so low as to only rely on 3 miles at the end of the run, ridiculous, you wouldn't do it in a petrol/diesel car, and certainly not in a Hybrid, this absolute nonsense of range is discussed on here weekly, just fill the car up or charge it!! 🤦‍♂️

[egg]

So after studying the article, ironing out the incorrectly formatted consumption figures, there is a buffer as i suspected but it's apparently only half the size i was expecting.

An educated guess tells me there's approx 60KWh usable from zero indicated range to full. I also believe there must be approx 5 KWh below zero range making a total of 65KWh useable.

The WLTP consumption figures quoted by Toyota were 4.3 miles per KWh for pure (317 miles range) and 3.9 miles per KWh for awd motion (285 mile range).

What i don't understand is these figures only make sense with circa 71.4KWh usable capacity. If the test was carried out with only circa 65KWh capacity then these figures should be even more efficient than stated, and I'm sure if this was the case, then Toyota would be quoting these instead.

I would also be very surprised if the efficiency figures could be any more efficient than quoted, especially with a drag coefficient of only 0.291

[dab1054]

I charged up my new bZ4X FWD Motion to 100% last night. The range at 100% was given at 284 miles which works out at around 4 ml/kWh if 71.4 kWh available or 4.7ml/kWh if 60kWh available. Of course this is just an estimate by the software and I'll need to see what the real world range is after I've driven it a bit more.

[egg]

Think I may just accept delivery next week, and accept the heater system is very inefficient for a supposed heat pump, and hope to find my real world efficiency better than expected.

swoop5511 recent efficiency of 4.1 - 4.2miles per KWh is very encouraging though

[swoop5511]

 

Getting better. To be fair and being honest, this was during rushhour so motorway was limited to 60 tops and most cases outside city i was going 45-50

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, swoop5511 said:

 

Getting better. To be fair and being honest, this was during rushhour so motorway was limited to 60 tops and most cases outside city i was going 45-50

So, if I have read that correctly (and apologies if I haven't) that represents a journey of 11.5 miles at an average speed of 21 mph returning 4.9 miles/kWh? I suspect that you'd be disappointed if you weren't managing that. 😉

[swoop5511]

8 minutes ago, philip42h said:

So, if I have read that correctly (and apologies if I haven't) that represents a journey of 11.5 miles at an average speed of 21 mph returning 4.9 miles/kWh? I suspect that you'd be disappointed if you weren't managing that. 😉

spend 10 min sitting in construction site, 4 way single lane traffic crossing. make that a 20min drive. you'll have to take my word for it. 

[Malop]

@bZ4X love the response to your comment on the Toyota Magazine site. How to answer the question without answering it. I literally shouted at my phone “so just tell him the UK Battery size”

[lightboxcar]

9 hours ago, W id said:

we offer one million kilometres of extended battery safety, which guarantees capacity over the first ten years of the car's lifetim

So one million kilometes of Battery 'safety'...  Wonder if that means Battery life ??

If it does, then these cars could last 20 years, 30 years , 40 years and more,  on avarage annual mileage, Vintage BZ4X in years to come....

[bZ4X]

13 hours ago, Malop said:

@bZ4X love the response to your comment on the Toyota Magazine site. How to answer the question without answering it. I literally shouted at my phone “so just tell him the UK battery size”

I updated my question 😂😂 they are joke. 

Waiting for moderation approval. 

[Rajavina]

On 11/10/2022 at 2:07 PM, egg said:

BZ4X specifications, including consumption figures from WLTP test, this screenshot is from toyota magazine online article 

My experience today. Bz4X motion FWD, 18" wheel, 21 degrees eco mode, single person with no luggage. Outside temperature 12 Deg.C. Travelling speed 70 to 75miles per hour on an average 

Car was 100% charged and was showing 267.8 miles.  After travelling 111.9 miles it has 43% of charge left. Extrapolation gives me 196 miles approx.

[Rajavina]

1 minute ago, Rajavina said:

My experience today. Bz4X motion FWD, 18" wheel, 21 degrees eco mode, single person with no luggage. Outside temperature 12 Deg.C. Travelling speed 70 to 75miles per hour on an average 

Car was 100% charged and was showing 267.8 miles.  After travelling 111.9 miles it has 43% of charge left. Extrapolation gives me 196 miles approx.

88.6 miles of that 111.9 was a continuous drive.

[W id]

11 minutes ago, Rajavina said:

My experience today. Bz4X motion FWD, 18" wheel, 21 degrees eco mode, single person with no luggage. Outside temperature 12 Deg.C. Travelling speed 70 to 75miles per hour on an average 

Car was 100% charged and was showing 267.8 miles.  After travelling 111.9 miles it has 43% of charge left. Extrapolation gives me 196 miles approx.

What is the difference between 21 degrees in eco mode and normal auto mood. Not in range but in heating and how it feels in the car?

[Rajavina]

13 minutes ago, W id said:

What is the difference between 21 degrees in eco mode and normal auto mood. Not in range but in heating and how it feels in the car?

 

13 minutes ago, W id said:

What is the difference between 21 degrees in eco mode and normal auto mood. Not in range but in heating and how it feels in the car?

As soon as you switch on heating the range will drop by 40 to 50 miles and as you travel that drop comes down to 25miles after some time. Can't say exactly after how many miles. Possibly external temperature also plays a role.

Range drop in eco mode is 20% less as it preferentially warms the driver and the passenger instead of warming the whole car and also I was told it also reduces the rate of acceleration.

[Rajavina]

6 minutes ago, Rajavina said:

 

As soon as you switch on heating the range will drop by 40 to 50 miles and as you travel that drop comes down to 25miles after some time. Can't say exactly after how many miles. Possibly external temperature also plays a role.

Range drop in eco mode is 20% less as it preferentially warms the driver and the passenger instead of warming the whole car and also I was told it also reduces the rate of acceleration.

Comfort was just ok in eco mode. Possibly must get used to wearing a jumper/jacket while driving in winter. I am not sure whether the passenger with you will like that.

[Rajavina]

51 minutes ago, Rajavina said:

My experience today. Bz4X motion FWD, 18" wheel, 21 degrees eco mode, single person with no luggage. Outside temperature 12 Deg.C. Travelling speed 70 to 75miles per hour on an average 

Car was 100% charged and was showing 267.8 miles.  After travelling 111.9 miles it has 43% of charge left. Extrapolation gives me 196 miles approx.

Sorry I traveled only 103 miles and not 111.9. 90% of the driving happened on A and M roads. At this rate I will get only 180 miles for a full charge and not 190 as I mentioned earlier.

[bZ4X]

25 minutes ago, Rajavina said:

 

As soon as you switch on heating the range will drop by 40 to 50 miles and as you travel that drop comes down to 25miles after some time. Can't say exactly after how many miles. Possibly external temperature also plays a role.

Range drop in eco mode is 20% less as it preferentially warms the driver and the passenger instead of warming the whole car and also I was told it also reduces the rate of acceleration.

Is this eco driving mode? Or eco car climate mode with air conditioner? 

[Rajavina]

11 minutes ago, bZ4X said:

Is this eco driving mode? Or eco car climate mode with air conditioner? 

 

[lightboxcar]

1 hour ago, Rajavina said:

Extrapolation gives me 196 miles approx

Thanks for the really useful info.

You say you started with 100% charge.

And assuming you are never going to run the car to zero percent, and ignoring any 'buffer' the Battery may have, and allowing 30 miles safety to get to a service station/working charger, the probable safe max range would be about 170 miles based on your figures and journey profile.

Thinking about if you took similar but longer journey, the fast DC charging is capped at 80%, so the next leg of the journey would have 160miles max range.  Again allowing for 30 miles margin for safety, that would only leave 130 miles safe max realistic range.

Guessing this means on a long motorway drive, frequent charging is needed, at a much higher frequency than ICE refuelling for same journey.

Having to charge every 130 miles would be extremely disappointng to say the least.

Hoping the above assumptions are wrong, perhaps other more experienced members can comment ?

[Cyker]

That's just a well known fact of life with current EVs, it's not anything new, hence why you need to plan long trips a lot more than with ICE cars and why they're not suitable for everyone yet. Even my Mk2 Yaris could easily do 400 miles in one go but I don't think any EV can even get close to that yet, and I considered that a relatively short range - My Mk4 looks like it can get at least 500 miles out of its thimble-sized tank (I regularly get well over 400 miles out of 27-28L of petrol), and my old diesel Mk1 could get over 600 miles out of its 40-and-a-bit litre tank!

It's actually faster with EVs to do shorter hops and charge more, as the charging speed tends to drop off dramatically past about 80% - That final 20% can take longer than the initial 0 to 80%!

That's why they either need more chargers on common routes, or a major breakthrough in Battery capacity.

 

[Rajavina]

25 minutes ago, lightboxcar said:

Thanks for the really useful info.

You say you started with 100% charge.

And assuming you are never going to run the car to zero percent, and ignoring any 'buffer' the battery may have, and allowing 30 miles safety to get to a service station/working charger, the probable safe max range would be about 170 miles based on your figures and journey profile.

Thinking about if you took similar but longer journey, the fast DC charging is capped at 80%, so the next leg of the journey would have 160miles max range.  Again allowing for 30 miles margin for safety, that would only leave 130 miles safe max realistic range.

Guessing this means on a long motorway drive, frequent charging is needed, at a much higher frequency than ICE refuelling for same journey.

Having to charge every 130 miles would be extremely disappointng to say the least.

Hoping the above assumptions are wrong, perhaps other more experienced members can comment ?

Today was reasonably warm (12deg). We might have to charge every 150 to 160miles. But during winter we will have to charge it more frequently. Not very encouraging. We will have to wait for experts review about the performance in reality.