Toyota is still the King of the hybrid, or is it?

[TonyHSD]

Here the video and I couldn’t agree more. 

 

[Cyker]

I should hope so, it's taken them what, 20 years of HSD evolution to get to this stage!!   Totally worth it tho'  

The Hyundai hybrid system is very primitive by comparison.

He's right about the brake-by-wire system on the Hyundai tho', it's really nasty compared to the Toyota ones. The Toyota one isn't perfect and I do miss the feedback I got from a normal hydraulic brake pedal, but it feels much more refined and responsive.

The Toyota HSD is the only series/parallel hybrid system in mass production as far as I know and that gives it unrivalled flexibility to shift between economy and performance that none of the other ones can match.

 

[TonyHSD]

Simply said only Toyota make hybrids that work in real world and are actually simpler and more reliable than conventional petrol or diesel only cars. 

[Derek.w]

Some other makes are rather clunky at switch over from petrol to electric others are mild hybrids only used to pull away from standstill.

 

[Hybrid21]

I've never driven another hybrid so can't compare to my RAV4.

My daughter has a new Suzuki Vitara mild hybrid manual gearbox which she seems pleased with.

[Parts-King]

A lot of manufacturers have jumped on the Hybrid bandwagon, however they are mild Hybrid and don't compare in any way. Toyota never stand still, the technology moves on all the time, watch this space as they say 

[Yugguy1970]

A friend of mine has the Puma mild hybrid, where the electric motor just gives an extra boost of power/engine braking but you can really feel it come on and off.  I've not driven any other manufacturer's full hybrid but I went Toyota because they'd been making and refining their hybrids for decades.  Certainly both the Yaris and Rav are largely seamless in that if you want you can maximise the mpg, but if not you can happily drive it like a normal car and the power/charging does its thing in the background and you don't even need to think about it.

 

The one thing they could do, which apparantly they have for the 5th gen system, is increase the electric so the engine doesn't hit max revs as often.

[Cyker]

The problem is they can put in as big an electric motor as physically possible and people will still floor the accelerator, so what do you do in that situation?

a) Deliver maximum power from the ICE and MG2 which gives a strong launch but the ICE must rev very high to achieve peak power, or 

b) Deliver maximum power from MG2 but limit the revs of the ICE so it doesn't deliver full power, which lessens the acceleration and leads to people complaining it's slow and asking why a 100HP electric motor and 100HP ICE only equals 150HP maximum power.

 

I think it's more a driver mindset thing - We're so used to having to floor the accelerator in ICE vehicles, and waiting for the engine revs to build up to maximum power, it's disconcerting in the hybrids that if you press the accelerator for 100% power, it gives you 100% immediately instead of building towards it.

I've started to simulate the rising engine revs when I'm driving by progressively increasing accelerator pressure instead of just flooring it like I used to.

 

As for mild 'hybrids', they're just compliance cars and frankly it's an insult to real hybrids that they're allowed to even have hybrid in the name, as they can't run on the electric alone at all. They're just glorified stop-start systems and barely make any difference to the mpg. Just a token effort for manufacturers who don't want to put in the R&D or pay to license someone else's.

It's also deceptive marketing - I've had someone genuinely ask me why I got the Mk4 when you can get e.g. a Suzuki 'hybrid' for so much cheaper, as if they are even close to being similar!

I'd like to see any mild 'hybrid' get even close to 70mpg while caning it up the M1! (At totally legal speeds )

 

[Yugguy1970]

Oh aye I agree with that.   Its even funnier when they stick a 9v Battery and an Airfix motor on the end of a Ferrari v8 and call it a "hybrid"

[davidif]

On 11/11/2022 at 8:57 PM, Cyker said:

The problem is they can put in as big an electric motor as physically possible and people will still floor the accelerator, so what do you do in that situation?

a) Deliver maximum power from the ICE and MG2 which gives a strong launch but the ICE must rev very high to achieve peak power, or 

b) Deliver maximum power from MG2 but limit the revs of the ICE so it doesn't deliver full power, which lessens the acceleration and leads to people complaining it's slow and asking why a 100HP electric motor and 100HP ICE only equals 150HP maximum power.

 

I think it's more a driver mindset thing - We're so used to having to floor the accelerator in ICE vehicles, and waiting for the engine revs to build up to maximum power, it's disconcerting in the hybrids that if you press the accelerator for 100% power, it gives you 100% immediately instead of building towards it.

I've started to simulate the rising engine revs when I'm driving by progressively increasing accelerator pressure instead of just flooring it like I used to.

 

As for mild 'hybrids', they're just compliance cars and frankly it's an insult to real hybrids that they're allowed to even have hybrid in the name, as they can't run on the electric alone at all. They're just glorified stop-start systems and barely make any difference to the mpg. Just a token effort for manufacturers who don't want to put in the R&D or pay to license someone else's.

It's also deceptive marketing - I've had someone genuinely ask me why I got the Mk4 when you can get e.g. a Suzuki 'hybrid' for so much cheaper, as if they are even close to being similar!

I'd like to see any mild 'hybrid' get even close to 70mpg while caning it up the M1! (At totally legal speeds )

 

I Guess that a Suzuki Swace is more than close to being similar!

[FROSTYBALLS]

On 11/11/2022 at 8:57 PM, Cyker said:

I'd like to see any mild 'hybrid' get even close to 70mpg while caning it up the M1

Not everyone buys a vehicle for the fuel economy though - so the fact a Yaris hybrid may approach 70mpg whereas a mild hybrid won't, doesn't matter a jot to a lot of buyers. 

If a car fits an individual's purchase criteria, then fine.

[RobertR]

I have driven the Kia Niro hybrid DCT 2022, (i think 1.6i ) and it was a nice hybrid to drive, yes, it' wasn't as smooth as 4th gen toyota but no problem, one or two generations for kia/hyundai and it will catch up toyota in conmpsution. But they get pretty expensive. From a reliability standpoint, only time show.