Fuel filler pipe - an alert, and a request for advice

[br1anst0rm]

I recently acquired a 2004 Rav 4 Mk 2 petrol automatic as a replacement for a long-serving but sadly terminally-rusted Jeep Cherokee.  So, not surprisingly, I'm checking the Rav pretty thoroughly for rust, given its age and mileage (128,000).  In general it is not too bad underneath, though it seems to have lost one or two of the protective plastic splashguard panels, notably the one which protects the fuel tank.  I am stripping/wirebrushing and treating all the rust I find, and trying out this new (to me) Lanoguard spray to give a bit of protection.

Today I tackled the rear wheel-arches, and thankfully most of the visible rust is superficial.  But - and here's the warning - I removed the plastic shield-panel inside the left rear wheel-arch which protects the fuel filler pipe, and was horrified to see the condition of the pipe.  Totally encrusted with rust.  In fact the rust was all that seemed to hold it together, because a gentle tap with a screwdriver handle caused a cascade of rusty bits to fall to the ground.... and a hole in the pipe was clearly visible just beside the bracket holding it in place in the wheel arch.  Looks as if an instant repair (chewing gum or gun-gum) is called for before I can even refuel.

So this alert is to suggest that every owner of an ageing RAV4 ought carefully to remove that plastic shield and check the state of the fuel filler pipe.

It looks as if a replacement filler pipe is easily available online from a variety of suppliers.  I will have to get a new pipe (and the breather pipe that goes with it). Any advice on the best brands would be welcome:  some have a 2 year guarantee, others 5 years.  And any advice or tips on fitting the new pipe would be appreciated.  I haven't yet looked closely, but while it seems that access is OK at the top (filler cap) end from the wheel-arch, it is less obvious how much access there is to the connections into the fuel tank.  I really hope I don't have to drop the tank to fit a new pipe, because that means removing prop shaft and probably exhaust pipe, and I could do without that much hassle!

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Known issue - see:

Etc.

[br1anst0rm]

Thanks Frosty ... I should have guessed that this was not an unusual or unique problem and done a bit more searching.  That collection of earlier posts proves it. It evidently afflicts both petrol and diesel models, and of various years. 

The OEM Toyota part costs silly money.  Aftermarket replacements are about £50 online (plus the challenge and cost of fitting).   I was impressed - and persuaded - by the alternative solution suggested back in ?2015 by Bothwell Buyer and then by SteveR.  Worth quoting the essential info for anyone else who might read this thread: 

"I used some heavy-duty wire-reinforced rubber fuel filler hose to replace the corroded original steel pipe. Reinforced PVC hose would have been cheaper but I gather that PVC fuel hose becomes brittle with age so I went for the higher quality option.

When I first measured the existing filler pipe I made it about 38mm. That works out at 1.5 inch and that seems to be a standard bore size for filler pipes, so that's what I bought. I got it slightly wrong: when I connected it to the tank spigot I found it was a little loose and further measurements showed it to be 35mm."

This seems a better way to go.  The same technique can be used for both the breather tube and the fuel pipe.  A steel replacement, waxoyled or not, is still susceptible to rust and could be tricky to install.  Reinforced rubber hoses make much more sense.  Likely to last longer, and easier to fit, since I assume it will be possible simply to replace the main or rusty parts of each pipe and jubilee-clip at each end to the (non-rusty) ends of the original pipes at the top end and near the tank.

I wonder if anyone has done a YouTube video of the repair operation?

[anchorman]

Something to keep in mind if you get this on a 4.3 you can now get copy parts on eBay.  However, these parts are an utter so and so to fit.   The genuine Toyota ones fit perfectly first time so for what extra they cost, honestly, don’t bother, get the genuine Toyota one.  Also, the new ones now come with a protective coating now.  

[br1anst0rm]

34 minutes ago, anchorman said:

Something to keep in mind if you get this on a 4.3 you can now get copy parts on eBay.  However, these parts are an utter so and so to fit.   The genuine Toyota ones fit perfectly first time so for what extra they cost, honestly, don’t bother, get the genuine Toyota one.  Also, the new ones now come with a protective coating now.  

Anchorman... just for clarification.  My Rav is a 4.2 (and a replacement filler and breather pipe is available via eBay).  Does your remark about difficult fitting refer specifically to the 4.3, or is fitting tricky for each and all model-versions?

[anchorman]

7 minutes ago, br1anst0rm said:

Anchorman... just for clarification.  My Rav is a 4.2 (and a replacement filler and breather pipe is available via eBay).  Does your remark about difficult fitting refer specifically to the 4.3, or is fitting tricky for each and all model-versions?

To be honest, I don’t know.  I’ve done several 4.3s but they have a specific weak point.  However, I’d price both copy and OE parts and the OE would need to be significantly dearer before I’d risk a copy part.  Once you’ve struggled for a couple of hours and even then it emerges at a funny angle, it just isn’t worth it.   Just my opinion.   

[br1anst0rm]

Don @anchorman.  For the 4.2, the OEM fuel filler with breather pipe (p/n 7720142120) is £150.  Pattern alternative (various makes and suppliers) around £50.  That is quite a difference. 

But I am inclined to look at the other approach:  replace the pipes (or at least the rusty middle sections where the pipes are routed along the inside of the wheel arch) with reinforced rubber hose instead.  It's not only much cheaper - that's not the point - but also seems much easier to fit, and of course no rust issues.

The challenge seems to be finding the right diameter of rubber hoses.  35mm is apparently needed for the fuel filler hose. A quick browse seems to suggest that "fuel hose" comes in 32mm or 38mm internal diameter.  There is plenty of 35mm ID hose on offer, but it is always labelled as water/coolant hose, so I'm not sure if it is suitably resistant to petrol.

[anchorman]

7 hours ago, br1anst0rm said:

Don @anchorman.  For the 4.2, the OEM fuel filler with breather pipe (p/n 7720142120) is £150.  Pattern alternative (various makes and suppliers) around £50.  That is quite a difference. 

But I am inclined to look at the other approach:  replace the pipes (or at least the rusty middle sections where the pipes are routed along the inside of the wheel arch) with reinforced rubber hose instead.  It's not only much cheaper - that's not the point - but also seems much easier to fit, and of course no rust issues.

The challenge seems to be finding the right diameter of rubber hoses.  35mm is apparently needed for the fuel filler hose. A quick browse seems to suggest that "fuel hose" comes in 32mm or 38mm internal diameter.  There is plenty of 35mm ID hose on offer, but it is always labelled as water/coolant hose, so I'm not sure if it is suitably resistant to petrol.

You probably already know but ordinary hose won’t last 5 minutes with diesel in it.  It has to be fuel resistant or you’ll lose your fuel again.   

[br1anst0rm]

14 hours ago, anchorman said:

You probably already know but ordinary hose won’t last 5 minutes with diesel in it.  It has to be fuel resistant or you’ll lose your fuel again.   

Yup... mine is a petrol vehicle, but the key point is indeed to find fuel resistant hose.  The frustrating thing is that finding such hose with a 35mm(1 3/8 inches) internal diameter seems near-impossible.  Readily listed on US suppliers websites, at 99 cents a metre.  But in UK it seems only 32mm internal diameter (too small) or 38mm (too loose) oil and fuel hose is available.