Dealership Brake fluid change

[Pww]

Yesterday took my 2019 Corolla TS in for it's 4year service. Dealer confirmed brake fluid to be changed. I took a photo of fluid colour before the service and it was looking more yellow than clear. Now going off the service charts in the dealership new fluid should be more clear in colour. I am suspecting they haven't changed it. Is there anyone who can advise before I go back to dealership tomorrow? Thanks 

[Hybrid21]

Difficult thing to prove Paul, I've had my suspicions on numerous occasions over the years.

Will be interested in what your dealer's answer is and other posts re this 👍

[Corolla Mike.]

Look at the removable panel above the filler for signs of removal. Also look under the car ar the bleed screws on the calipers for any signs of fluid from the bleed. 

[Stivino]

Not all brake fluids are totally clear.  Have a look at the nipples to see if they have any wetness on them.

[Swanthecat]

You could ask a local garage to test the fluid if you really suspect skulduggery or there are test pens available on Amazon which should be able to confirm zero moisture content if I really is new fluid. No idea how accurate they are

[Pww]

Just been out and looked at all 4 brake bleed nipples, no signs of nipple covers being removed on any of them, no fluid drops etc. Going to check air filter now... 

[Stivino]

19 minutes ago, Swanthecat said:

You could ask a local garage to test the fluid if you really suspect skulduggery or there are test pens available on Amazon which should be able to confirm zero moisture content if I really is new fluid. No idea how accurate they are

That will only tell the moisture content, not whether or not is has been replaced.  The moisture content of the old stuff could have been very low.

[Eddiefh]

I had something similar with filters non changed but charged, complained and got a free service told them to give me all parts and I’ll do it myself 

[TonyHSD]

Check the filters and take a picture. Also check the brake reservoir cap for any signs of been touched by hands. In many later cars brake fluid change happens through reservoir only with special tools, they sucks the old fluid out and inject new one, all done in controlled environment with no air bleeding needed., or some what they do is suck the fluid from the reservoir only and add new fluid, which is a half job done. I can see some marks under the reservoir left from mechanic hands and the cap looks wiped. I personally do not trust dealers and mechanics and do prefer to watch every single job they eventually do on my car. The colour is correct and similar to a brand new Corolla. 
 

[Hybrid21]

2 hours ago, Stivino said:

Not all brake fluids are totally clear.  Have a look at the nipples to see if they have any wetness on them.

Great tip Stephen  😃

[Hybrid21]

1 hour ago, Pww said:

Just been out and looked at all 4 brake bleed nipples, no signs of nipple covers being removed on any of them, no fluid drops etc. Going to check air filter now... 

Certainly not been touched Paul.

[Gerg]

1 hour ago, Pww said:

Just been out and looked at all 4 brake bleed nipples, no signs of nipple covers being removed on any of them, no fluid drops etc. Going to check air filter now... 

I had this on a Skoda some some years back,  When I complained the dealer took the car in and put it on the workshop lift.

'Ah,' he said, ' there's no trace of brake fluid because we've used brake cleaner afterwards'.  

I'm just pre-warning you for that workshop line!

Naturally, that was instantly judged to be cobblers.  They did agree to bleed them again whilst I watched them, which didn't take any pressure from me at all - a sign of guilt?

That brake nipple in your picture has not been touched in a good long while!

Also, after bleeding, the rubber nipple will be quite easy to move, nudge, rotate - after a few years of inactivity, they tend to bond to the brake nipple.

Also, I've taken to writing on the air filter and pollen filter the date they were installed, with a marker pen.  Mind you, that's for my own benefit, as I'm the only one who changes them on our cars...

[Rosgoe]

That’s ironic because I suspect the fluid had not been changed on my corolla at it’s main service as has been suggested  I haven’t checked the bleed nipples on the callipers. I wonder even if I checked the moisture content after two years with 5950 miles would it be any different from new fluid?.

I haven’t complained as it’s probably to late now as it was done in early September. Apart from the auris and the corolla I have never had the brake fluid changed in all the cars I have ever owned and have never had a problem with the brakes is it really necessary based on milage?The only time that the fluid was partially changed on the cars I have owned was when I have done work on the brakes such as new wheel cylinders and or new seals on the callipers.

looking at your picture I would say it has not been changed (is that before or after service) as it’s not up to max level.

[Hornet3D]

It is impossible to gauge whether brake fluid is new based upon colour as there are so many different variations of colour with new brake fluid.  I Have used many different types and makes during the years I was building kit cars and I don't think the colour was ever exactly the same.  The only reason for changing the fluid is because it absorbs water and, as water can me compressed, the more water the more there is the more it has a negative impact on the ability of the fluid.   The only real way to check if the fluid is new is to check the water content and many have already suggested.

[Stivino]

8 minutes ago, Hornet3D said:

as water can me compressed

The water cannot be compressed.  But, when heated above 100°C, water will become steam, and that can be compressed.

[oldcodger]

Agree , no signs of any bleeding at the caliper,  virtually impossible  not to leave any signs of fluid in that area if they had been bled.

Sometimes little difference in colour at the reservoir  between old and new fluid, depending on brand, more so if its done on schedule which is normally every 2 years or 30,000 km  (whichever comes first )  according to most brake fluid manufacturers.

Not familiar with the method  @TonyHSD mentions ? but looking up some such machines as can be seen here, they still have to connect to the bleed nipples.

Cannot see how any machine can remove the most contaminated fluid around the caliper pistons without using the bleed nipples ?

https://www.autooltech.com/autool-ast605-pulsating-brake-fluid-bleeder/

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, oldcodger said:

Agree , no signs of any bleeding at the caliper,  virtually impossible  not to leave any signs of fluid in that area if they had been bled.

Sometimes little difference in colour at the reservoir  between old and new fluid, depending on brand, more so if its done on schedule which is normally every 2 years or 30,000 km  (whichever comes first )  according to most brake fluid manufacturers.

Not familiar with the method  @TonyHSD mentions ? but looking up some such machines as can be seen here, they still have to connect to the bleed nipples.

Cannot see how any machine can remove the most contaminated fluid around the caliper pistons without using the bleed nipples ?

https://www.autooltech.com/autool-ast605-pulsating-brake-fluid-bleeder/

That’s the thing, it is impossible to remove the dirt accumulated inside the cylinders and there is no better method than old school bleeding procedure with the help of a fiend to press and hold the brake pedal. These cars are usually good for around 5-7 years even without any brake fluid change but then after rust issue will occur, the pistons get rusted and seize, or stop returning properly and cause premature pads and discs wear. Add the slider pins that does need cleaning and lubricating every 2-4 years and we will have bad braking, however cars  like that will pass mot. I had master hybrid brakes because that happened to both of our Aurises, same age , same problem. Now working perfectly fine after I done them., but it was a few attempts work with learning valuable lessons. 👍

[Pww]

The thing is, when you go into the Toyota showrooms they have the display boards showing you examples of disc and pad wear, tyre wear and brake fluid colour changes with differing moisture content. I truly believe they haven't changed the brake fluid even though I did confirm when dropping car off that the brake fluid change would be done. Very disappointed and will be contacting service manager tomorrow to ask the question. I have the before and after photos of the fluid colour and levels and are both exactly the same. I was dubious as to whether it was also done on the 2nd year service hence taking photos this time.  I would of checked it at the dealership but I didn't pick the car up. 

[oldcodger]

Assume your Invoice /Receipt clearly states Brake Fluild Change as its classed as an Extra to the standard Service  and that it shows a cost for that labour and brake fluid ?

Just don't go in steaming, but calm  & cool etc, you have the pics so he cannot wriggle out of that.

As @TonyHSD points out, the brake caliper slider bolts do need regular cleaning and lubricating etc, no idea if Toyota do that as part of a service?

We do ours at every yearly service, if might be worth checking yourself if you are happy with a few spanners ?

Have to confess the only time we have had Dealer work done has been a simple warranty repair and the recent-ish airbag recall where we were surprised at the detailed paperwork and even a video of the mechanic  under the car pointing things out on its general condition.

[Derek.w]

Well with past experiance Toyota dont strip down your brakes thats on a intermidiate service

as I striped down a front disk brake system some years ago just after a service but to be honist brake problem was only when reversing as pads are not sliding so it sounded like I just ran into the back of another motor.

 

[Cyker]

Yeah that's not a thing they do routinely; I asked to have them cleaned and redone once as part of the service on my old diesel due to squeaky brakes and they charged me extra to do it.

The only mechanics I know who do it as part of a service are EV mechanics, as they have to find something to justify what they charge for servicing since there's nothing else to check on the car and you can only get away with charging so much for changing the windscreen wipers and air filters  

(To be fair EVs need it much more than normal cars as they also don't use their friction brakes much, but on balance so do hybrids so it is a shame the service schedule doesn't include that as standard...!)

 

[Hornet3D]

19 hours ago, Stivino said:

The water cannot be compressed.  But, when heated above 100°C, water will become steam, and that can be compressed.

Thank you for the correction, you are right of course.

[Pww]

Just to update, dealer as expected is adamant the fluid was changed. I'm still not convinced but apart from getting the fluid inspected elsewhere there is nothing else I can do. I mentioned no signs of bleed nipple covers being removed etc but got no explanation. 

[Popama]

Propose to them that they redo the change in your presence and charge you if they can remove the bleed nipples without traces.

I had the same change performed last month on Corolla TS 2.0L HSD and it took a while, wheels were removed, brake system was purged and the brake was calibrated and tested.
The brake pedal feel changed in my case, the transition from electrical engine braking to convetional braking is more seamless now.

[Stivino]

Did you remove the rubber caps from the nipples to check to see if the were wet?

Every nipple should have a sign of fluid and should look like a spanner has been on it, which the one in your picture doesn't.