Dealership Brake fluid change

[RobertR]

22 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Check the filters and take a picture. Also check the brake reservoir cap for any signs of been touched by hands. In many later cars brake fluid change happens through reservoir only with special tools, they sucks the old fluid out and inject new one, all done in controlled environment with no air bleeding needed., or some what they do is suck the fluid from the reservoir only and add new fluid, which is a half job done. I can see some marks under the reservoir left from mechanic hands and the cap looks wiped. I personally do not trust dealers and mechanics and do prefer to watch every single job they eventually do on my car. The colour is correct and similar to a brand new Corolla. 
 

any additional info about this type of brake line bleeding? Video instructions, or something. I don't think you will pull out all the sh*t outside of the system through the reservoir unless you are vacuuming the system or something, but then you are risking contamination. It seems to me like a lot of work. Brake fluid change is very easy job to do, in two persons, it's a matter of minutes.

[Stivino]

You can't renew brake fluid just from the reservoir, it has to be done at the nipples and, every nipple needs to be opened but not necessarily all at once. 

[TonyHSD]

Same as in factory first fill up. If Toyota does that not sure. Yes with vacuum sucks all the fluid and replace with new. Scan tool most likely neede to open and close abs valves plus the electric brake booster. It is way more complicated than old school bleeding.  How much and how exactly I don’t know. Other option is from nipples upwards and out of tank. There are few possible ways, YouTube has plenty of videos. For Toyota hybrids there are some videos that are helpful, the method will apply to newer models although those with electronic parking brake might be slightly different. I haven’t worked on Corolla or any other from the latest but did two Auris 2010 and 2012 5 -6 times in between. Easy job with a help of friend. My brakes work except ever since, better than when I bought the car, high quality  aftermarket pads and discs were installed too. 👍

 

Examples. Not necessarily be exactly as dealers do them. There will be exact procedures on Toyota service website but access is needed and I have non. If someone has and can share there will be great. 👍

[Pww]

There was definitely no sign of any brake fluid on the calipers and as already mentioned by Gerg they will just say they cleaned them, even though there is dust and dirt on them. 

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, Pww said:

There was definitely no sign of any brake fluid on the calipers and as already mentioned by Gerg they will just say they cleaned them, even though there is dust and dirt on them. 

They can’t say that simply because it’s obvious that they were not cleaned but just untouched since 2019 in the factory.  You can question them if they changed the brake fluid and how did they do it and take it from there. I suspect dealers only suck out ten reservoir fluid with syringe and top up new fluid. 

[Stivino]

That would be pointless, it’s the fluid in the pipes that needs to be removed, not what’s in the reservoir.

[TonyHSD]

9 minutes ago, Stivino said:

That would be pointless, it’s the fluid in the pipes that needs to be removed, not what’s in the reservoir.

The fluid in the cylinders is the biggest trouble as this is where the moisture locks in and form corrosion on the pistons and stop them from free movement and returns and all the problems as a result. I know that but dealers does exactly that reservoir fluid change only and charge £45 perhaps £60 now. If they do it the right way take ages and don’t think that price covers anything or make them a profit. But 45-60 quit for 250ml brake fluid not bad at all. I am only speculating, don’t know what exactly dealers are doing these days. If there are some dealer representatives here , please forgive me if I am wrong and please share with us the procedures taken about brake fluid change. 
Thank you. 

[Stivino]

Ok, I used the word pipes but, I really meant everywhere but the reservoir.

 

[twintopp]

going back quite a few years ,changed brake pads all round on saturday, wife took car in for mot on monday and got phone call to say the car needed new pads, wife says by they didn`t last long the garage says they don`t these days , wife says they where new two days ago , silence on the other end and the car past it`s test.

[Saxmaniac]

DIY is the only way to ensure its done right, you can't trust anything dealer tells you and in the time it takes to argue with them, you could do it properly several times over, in some ways I'm sorry they came out with relax warranty coz we're now stuck with dealers for years more, previously my cars wouldn't go anywhere near the motor trade after warranty 

[Mojo1010]

If one has the skills and tools to DIY of course that is the best and at cost price. I don't have that skills other than basic stuff. Well don't have to be stuck with the dealer with the relax warranty, can go the indy route or self service if you have the skills/tools. 

When I bought the MK3 Yaris it's was just over 2 years old, I was very confident regarding Toyota reliability that I went the independent garage route just for oil/filter changes. I do the air/pollen filter myself. It was a risk if something major gone wrong. So far nothing needs doing apart from the front brake pads wearing out at 49k, will use a family's relative to do this. 

When I get the mk4 Yaris I would probably do the same after the 3rd service. 

[TonyHSD]

Absolutely, no trust in anyone especially car garages. If there are honest and knowledgeable people working on cars they will be probably driven out of business or simply retired by now. Current car climate is beyond imagination for poorest service of all times. Not everyone and everywhere but in general. There are still some nice guys out there but extremely difficult to find. 
Diy is best of course, however not aways possible due to various factors. One of the reasons many cars are prematurely broken is because been not serviced on time or properly and driven badly. Indi garages are serious risk and highly not recommend. Some Toyota dealers are but again it’s a bit of luck and lottery. Independent for Toyota almost does not exist and for a good reason, however there are some but they charge more than the official dealers and no relax warranty. 

[oldcodger]

Where @Pww lives he has several Toyota dealers in his area, but they are all part of the same RRG Group that have a lot of sites around the M62 lancs/yorks.

No idea if all their branches follow the same service ethos or if he could easily try a different branch ?

Reading the car mags, seems car dealerships are being reduced in number  eg Stellantis reducing their dealerships by 138 in 2023, so wonder how folk will be expected to get their cars serviced to keep the warranty terms without having to travel countless miles ?

Also worth finding out whats covered by these extra warranties  as in this link.  Again so much of any claim could be down to dealership honesty.

https://www.toyota.co.uk/content/dam/toyota/nmsc/united-kingdom/owners/warranty/toyota-warranty/toyota-warranty-ts-and-cs-june-2022.pdf

As @TonyHSD says its very hard to find a good independent garage but as always best to get a first hand recommendation from someone you know well.

For an unbiased MOT then use your local councils mot stations, they can only test your car and cannot recommend any garage if work is needed.

As for diy servicing, though 95% of it is quite easy for some folk,  think its generally a dying art , more so with all the modern electronics used.

 

[Tomv]

From my experience with Toyota, Skoda and Ford dealers, break fluid exchange means to suck  out fluid from the reservoir, nothing more. When I find that out I started to do it by my self for over 10 years on my previous car without any issues.

The fluid is circulating and in hoses and will mix with the new fluid in reservoir.

I thing thin the logic behind this is, that the fluid can last for more then 2years. Let's say it can last for 4-5years. So by doing the exchange every 2 years you keep the spec of the fluid in the limits, without the need to replace all the fluid.

Btw you can ask other dealer to check the fluid. There is some inexpensive tool for that, they do it usually for free and you will see if it's ok.

[AisinW]

From your pictures It is clearly have not been changed. However, your 3 years old brake fluid in hybrid is 99% still like new. Even if they replace it, it will be exactly the same color and performance.  No marking  on the brake bleeder is obvious signs of Fraud. I had similar experience before, took the picture and report it to the head quarter. The manager refund the whole bill for the brake fluid service. 

I generally change the brake fluid in Toyota every 3-5 years in non hybrid and 5-6 years in hybrid. Only in non hybrid i noticed color difference. The water % after 5 years is always below 2%. Wear from the color is more noticeable and the performance has not degraded at that level.  

I believe that the brake fluid flush schedule is supposed  to be revised for hybrid, probably 6y instead of 2 years interval. 

 

[Puglet]

Maybe I've just been lucky, but found a couple of of very good independent garages over the years, although I do most my own servicing, needed them for MOTs and found them to be firm but fair, and even just MOT can give you good idea what they are about. The ones I used been around for good few years so says a lot and also being very small they have more to loose if they do shoddy work. When I have used them for work they have done a good job, but it helped that I knew basically what the fault was and work involved. Only ever used franchise dealers to maintain warranty, which was a necessary evil, and that was an expensive lesson, so I would rather carry on crawling under my car in the wind and rain than let them touch it. 

[TonyHSD]

For the brake fluid circulation it’s true. Even you change only the reservoir the new fluid will mix with the rest of the system, pipes, valves, abs and cylinders and indeed its better than not changing fluid at all.
However what is important here is to open nipples and push ( flush out) old fluid out of cylinders to clean them because they do accumulate dirt and when brake fluid start to form moisture ( water ) is locked in the cylinders and cause rust and make them seized. -

“Brake fluid is called hygroscopic. That means it absorbs moisture. Even though braking systems are essentially closed systems, they still absorb water. Water being heavier than brake fluid, that moisture goes to the lowest point of the system.” 

 

[oldcodger]

Totally subjective but had 3 cars , each  over many years  and run them to  150k - 180k miles , properly changing / bleeding the brake fluid every 2 years as then recommended but never had any problems with the ABS units or the calipers/ pistons seizing or leaking.

Easy to do it in 30 mins as a one man job using the £20 Gunson  Eezibleed kit or similar.

[AisinW]

I never have any corrosion and calipers problem either in all of my Toyotas with more than 4 y intervals.  The brake fluid absorb water but at  much lower rate than we thougt in Toyota.  It may be relevant for Germans cars, GM, or Fiat crysler. Instead of 2 y, 4-5 years is more than enough.

My friend's  Avalon brake lines and calipers are corroded and seized. It was 10y old car but from the history, it was flooded 3 years earlier from a Hurricane. The corrosion was from external damage not internal. Caliper problems is often caused by salt on the roads too. 

In my opinion, brake fluid change 2y interval is only for warranty purposes. Completely overkill for modern Toyota.