Range and efficiency/consumption

[bZ4xSupra]

Starting this topic to compare real world range and consumption for those who opted for AWD and the 20" wheels. 

I've passed 500 miles, mostly all on motorways and I haven't got my average consumption above 3.0 miles per kWh.

Now, I need to adjust my driving style (it's fun to test its capabilities) and figure out the most efficient way of stopping the car misting up, but I'm interested in being able to compare efficiency with other drivers who perhaps do less motorway driving as more deliveries occur. 

The app is currently showing 121.9 miles at 53% charge. 

First big trip is on Monday from Gatwick to Stonehenge and back. Will update this post with analysis of that journey. 

[swoop5511]

1 hour ago, bZ4xSupra said:

Now, I need to adjust my driving style (it's fun to test its capabilities) and figure out the most efficient way of stopping the car misting up,

Please do share. That is the one thing I am also still figuring out. The car does like to fog / mist up quite strongly

[bZ4xSupra]

2 hours ago, swoop5511 said:

Please do share. That is the one thing I am also still figuring out. The car does like to fog / mist up quite strongly

I don't really really understand the LEDs if I'm honest. I think they stay on at times even though that mode is clearly not engaged. 

Im slowly just settling on Auto Eco about 18.5c with fans directed to body and legs. Whack the fans up if the front starts to mist. There's a lot of cabin. 

[Cyker]

Can't you just turn on the AC and set the blower to the windscreen? That's the near-universal method for quickly demisting these days. I'm sure there's even a dedicated button on the HVAC controls for that (Assuming that haven't swapped it for some horrible touch control)

I think 3 miles/kWh is okay for a big ol' bus like the bz4x at this time of year. I think the Kona wouldn't get that much more and that's one of the most efficient EVs.

[bZ4xSupra]

38 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Can't you just turn on the AC and set the blower to the windscreen? That's the near-universal method for quickly demisting these days. I'm sure there's even a dedicated button on the HVAC controls for that (Assuming that haven't swapped it for some horrible touch control)

I think 3 miles/kWh is okay for a big ol' bus like the bz4x at this time of year. I think the Kona wouldn't get that much more and that's one of the most efficient EVs.

There is that option but it seems to do sweet FA by itself and still whacks the range down. 

I'm going to read the manual again. 😂

It is a bus and it handles the floods so well. 

[TonyHSD]

For windscreen best to set up hvac correctly but also to properly clean all windows from inside with alcohol or pure water and clean microfibre towel. For the energy consumption perhaps it’s fine as this time of the year it’s cold and this affects a lot. My girlfriend’s ioniq 38kw/h currently seats at around 4.9m/kWh, but it’s smaller and lighter car. 

[Sooty]

Try placing some silica Gel bags in the car, maybe under the front seats to cut down on the windscreen misting up.

I have done that in my Prius and it helps quite a bit.

[dab1054]

After 800+ miles some numbers from my bZ4X Motion FWD. Hopefully others can add to this with their own experiences

Range

Charging to 100% (on four occasions) has given between 278 and 286 miles on the range meter over a couple of weeks since 10 November. I assume this takes into account outside temp and other factors such as previous driving style etc.- and may increase in spring/summer next year according to other EV owners.

My two longest trips (on a single charge) were 203 and 173 miles with some range left. Estimated range usually drops by at least 50 miles (at 100% charge) when anything A/C related is engaged,  but the actual loss is much less than this in my experience.

Efficiency

I have not found a good way to access historical efficiency information from either the in-car system or the app. However, from the car trip recorder I typically see efficiencies in the range 3.5 to 4.8 miles/kWh for 'local' journeys (approx 5 -30 miles). On these journeys the average speed would be only 15-25 mph. For longer runs on motorway (203 and 173 miles) I have returned 3.6 and 3.7 miles/kWh aiming for 60-65mph on dual carriageway but achieving a little over 50mph average over the whole journey. Note that we were previously used to coaxing high mpg out of a 2008 Prius so your bZ4X numbers may be different depending on your driving style...

Charging

I use a Zappi charge point at home. This works well and it is easy to time charging for the cheap night rates. The timing can be done from the Zappi app or from the car. Both ways work fine for me but the Zappi app is more informative and easier to use. In theory I can push 7 x 6.6 kWh = 46.2kWh into the car in my 7 hour cheap rate slot. In practice I have been able to achieve a maximum of 47.7kWh in 7 hours so possibly the bZ4X on-board charger is nearer 6.8kW? I have only charged outside twice, both at InstaVolt 120kW DC (contactless payment). 15p/kWh night rate at home, 75p/kWh at InstaVolt- so having home charging is a huge advantage. DC charging was quick (around 20-30 minutes for 20-80%).

General comments

The car is easy to drive and very smooth, quiet and comfortable- excellent for long journeys. Really appreciating the myriad safety features (including the 'driver inattention' warning is a bit annoying but actually very useful for long motorway trips where my attention can easily drift off).  Hard to find any real disadvantages- possibly it is larger than I we really need for our purposes but this size seems to be necessary for the higher range EVs. Also, I would definitely prefer to have a rear windscreen wiper but, having said that, the rear visibility is actually pretty good especially since the wing mirrors are excellent. No problems here with seeing the display over the steering wheel for me 5'10" or my wife 5'4".

[swoop5511]

I’ve now done close to a 1,000 miles and your experiences mirror mine. Similar range figures that you’ve seen.

I find the mile range drop when turning on AC or anything “fan” related “hilarious” as its clearly an ultra conservative setting and a blanket value independent of what is actually happening. Value will drop the same whether I turn the fan on with same or 1 degree higher than outside temps or everything set to max full power. The analytical side of the info available to driver whether by choice or not is very limited and for me, this is where Toyota really lags behind.

Everything else with the car is rock solid and well build - as you would expect from Toyota

Quick note, had tyres changed for Winter from the Bridgestone Alenza’s to Micheline Cross Climate 2s. I have not done any longer journeys. Commute consumption is the same. One thing that is really odd that the all weather / winter Michelin tires are perception wise much quite that the summer Bridgestone ones.

[TonyFR]

Winter tyres are invariably quieter in my long exoerience of them on various cars. The tread pattern (I think) is the main reason.

[Mister Mike]

1 hour ago, swoop5511 said:

Quick note, had tyres changed for Winter from the Bridgestone Alenza’s to Micheline Cross Climate 2s. I have not done any longer journeys. Commute consumption is the same. One thing that is really odd that the all weather / winter Michelin tires are perception wise much quite that the summer Bridgestone ones.

Do you really need Winter tyres in Cambridgeshire? I've never fitted a winter tyre to any of my cars.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Similar topics merged.

[ernieb]

9 minutes ago, Mister Mike said:

Do you really need Winter tyres in Cambridgeshire? I've never fitted a winter tyre to any of my cars.

The difference between summer and winter tyres is as much to do with the flexibility of the tyre walls as it is to the perceived need to drive through snow. Summer tyre walls harden once they get below approx 7oC (make dependent). This makes an uncomfortable drive and affects a number of driving characteristics detrimentally, braking, steering etc.

I’ve found that using CrossClimate tyres, an all year tyres so much better as the temperature drops, much quieter and responsive as compared to summer tyres.  Where they have performed really well is on cold days with heavy rain and standing water. The CrossClimates have a combination of natural and synthetic materials.

 

[swoop5511]

36 minutes ago, Mister Mike said:

Do you really need Winter tyres in Cambridgeshire? I've never fitted a winter tyre to any of my cars.

Growing up we always did and its Germany its legal requirement. Its not snow as such, but we always get icy rain and generally ice. Specifically on the single lane country roads. During that bad weather Jan / Feb period I see car's in the ditch every single day on my commute. Not going full winter tyre. The cross climates are a very good compromise

On our ICE we've had Cross Climate Plus since we bought the car and keep them on year around. 

[philip42h]

How are EV owners actually going to measure consumption? Is there a generally approved method?

For an ICE we typically measure mileage and fuel added using the brim-to-brim approach. It's far from perfect but it does give a fair idea of the economy achieved over the last tankfull.

With an EV folk are typically only going to charge to 100% (fill to the brim) at home. So do you then need to add in each of the rapid part charges between home full charges to get a reasonable measure of power used per mile?

[ernieb]

20 minutes ago, philip42h said:

How are EV owners actually going to measure consumption? Is there a generally approved method?

For an ICE we typically measure mileage and fuel added using the brim-to-brim approach. It's far from perfect but it does give a fair idea of the economy achieved over the last tankfull.

With an EV folk are typically only going to charge to 100% (fill to the brim) at home. So do you then need to add in each of the rapid part charges between home full charges to get a reasonable measure of power used per mile?

I think the best way is to look at the long term average miles/kWh. This takes into account all the factors that you will encounter in any chosen measurement period, temperature, topography and driving style etc. 

On my PHEV I’ve not reset the miles/kWh trip for over a year and the last time I looked it was 3.5m/kWh. This will no doubt reduce slightly during the winter but creep up again in the summer. Sadly the MyT app does not report this rolling average which would be a worthwhile addition I think?

[dab1054]

20 minutes ago, philip42h said:

How are EV owners actually going to measure consumption? Is there a generally approved method?

For an ICE we typically measure mileage and fuel added using the brim-to-brim approach. It's far from perfect but it does give a fair idea of the economy achieved over the last tankfull.

With an EV folk are typically only going to charge to 100% (fill to the brim) at home. So do you then need to add in each of the rapid part charges between home full charges to get a reasonable measure of power used per mile?

Yes, charge to 100% each time is the way to do it. But It's not so easy unless you can always charge to 100% at home which is not always possible for reasons below. Typically on a long journey you would top up at fast DC charger to 80% rather than 100%. Also, at home it is not always possible to charge to 100% overnight with typical cheap rate slots being between 4-7 hours representing around 25-45 kWh (for the 6.6kW on-board charger) of an available total of approx 64kWh in the bZ4X Battery. More likely to just add a small top-up before a long journey next day an so on.... In summer I'll use solar power to charge, so that will be another variable. I'm keeping a spreadsheet to record what I can but only have a couple of 'clean' runs of decent length (>100 miles) where I have exact mileage and kWh used (3.6 and 3.8kWh/mile). Over time it should be possible to build up a good long-term efficiency average assuming that all kWh input are recorded.

As an extra complication the in-car information does not give % charge or kWh remaining in Battery (MyToyota app gives %charge but not kWh). 

[dab1054]

2 hours ago, ernieb said:

On my PHEV I’ve not reset the miles/kWh trip for over a year and the last time I looked it was 3.5m/kWh.

Just checked this on my bZ4X. It had been set to the m/kWh for each trip rather than overall average. Overall average now displays 4.2 m/kWh presumably from new since I have not reset it. This is better than I thought, and more than my average of 3.9m/kWh calculated from total miles and kWh added.

[philip42h]

20 minutes ago, dab1054 said:

Just checked this on my bZ4X. It had been set to the m/kWh for each trip rather than overall average. Overall average now displays 4.2 m/kWh presumably from new since I have not reset it. This is better than I thought, and more than my average of 3.9m/kWh calculated from total miles and kWh added.

Checking the bZ4X owners manual it offers:

I may be misreading it but it appears to give either miles/kWh since the 'engine' was last started or the miles/kWh since the car was last charged / refueled. This would be analogous the the fuel consumption figures for the HEV.

It appears not to give an overall average from new / last reset ...

[ernieb]

Interesting, the PHEV says ‘the average power consumption since the function was reset, can be reset by pressing and holding the “OK” button”

 

[philip42h]

12 minutes ago, ernieb said:

Interesting, the PHEV says ‘the average power consumption since the function was reset, can be reset by pressing and holding the “OK” button”

As I said, I could be misreading or misunderstanding what it is trying to say.

The HEV equivalent function offers average fuel economy per trip (since the 'engine' was last started), per tank (since the car was last refueled) or since the last reset. I leave it set to "per trip" since that amuses me, and use brim-to-brim measurements to get reliable fuel consumption measurements over the longer term (since that amuses me too!). I don't really trust the onboard systems to provide reliable stats - particularly when I don't need to.

Hence my wholly academic interest in how EV owners in general, and bZ4X owners in particular, were going to maintain  dependable and comparable power consumption figures ... 😉 

[ernieb]

Agreed the wording is a little strange. I leave mine in the Total setting. When I get into the car the reading is the same as when I left it and if I use the EV mode with a heavier right foot than normal it the reading displayed does not change. With time during the seasons it does very slowly change but not significantly.

I also follow the BZ4x forum with some interest to see how the all electric model is getting on especially the economy figures.

[dab1054]

1 hour ago, philip42h said:

Checking the bZ4X owners manual it offers:

I may be misreading it but it appears to give either miles/kWh since the 'engine' was last started or the miles/kWh since the car was last charged / refueled. This would be analogous the the fuel consumption figures for the HEV.

It appears not to give an overall average from new / last reset ...

I think you are correct on this, but I’ll check the total average m/kWh again next time I charge to confirm what the manual says. 

[bZ4xSupra]

8 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Similar topics merged.

I started this thread specifically to discuss cars with AWD and 20" wheels as a resource for current, future and perspective owners. 

These are significantly different features which I thought warranted their own thread and are very not similar to cars that are FWD with 18".

As the community grows surely we want this forum to become a respository of all things BZ4x. 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

We had three topics where members on the BZ4X forum were posting re range, etc. To avoid duplication and enable members to have one topic which discusses this subject, one topic has been locked with members signposted to this topic, and the other two topics merged. Having one topic doesn't prevent members discussing and comparing the different versions of this model.