Range and efficiency/consumption

[dab1054]

WLTP is at least a standardised test so under those conditions you can make a direct comparison between different EVs. OK, it's not what we get under normal driving conditions. However, out of interest I took the information below from EV database and made the calculation of ml/kWh under the WLTP test conditions.

bZ4X FWD (WLTP 321 ml, 64kWh usable) = 5.01 ml/kWh

Niro-EV (WLTP 288, 64.8 kWh) = 4.44 ml/kWh

Hyundai Kona (WLTP 301, 64kWh) = 4.70 ml/kWh

Tesla Model Y (WLTP 283, 57.5 kWh) = 4.92 ml/kWh)

VW ID3 (WLTP 265, 58kWh) = 4.56 ml/kWh

Hyundai Ioniq 5 (WLTP 315, 74kWh) = 4.25 ml/kWh

BMW X Drive 40 (WLTP 264, 71kWh) = 3.71 ml/kWh

 

Make of that what you will...

[lightboxcar]

3 hours ago, philip42h said:

he onus is currently on potential EV buyers to educate themselves sufficiently

Correct of course.

Nevertheless we ordered our bZ4X about a year ago, and did do extensive research.  Maybe we didn't do a good enough job, but nowhere did we see a single thing about huge range drop in winter.

We read literally hundeds of articles and spec sheets

The dealer did not mention a thing, and neither did Toyota UK from everything we read.

And another things we are 1000% sure of, absolutely zero mention of this problem in all the "net zero" media hype.....

Of course we may have missed something...

[lightboxcar]

1 hour ago, dab1054 said:

bZ4X FWD (WLTP 321 ml, 64kWh usable) = 5.01 ml/kWh

Guessing that is for the 2WD, not the AWD

Still is would equate to about 321 miles.

Not see anywhere anyone getting anywhere near that with a bZ4X.

Nobody has driven the bZ4X extensively during summer yet.  It will be very informative to see the summer range/efficiency.

We are cautiously optimistic.  Our figures have been steadily improving as use of the AC/heater has reduced in higher temperatures.  When it was sub-zero we are gettign around 2 miles/Kw.  Now we are almost always seeng 3.5 to 4 miles/Kw , and this is on short journeys too which is not very efficient anyway.

One other thing , the bZ4X is a pretty big car.  We looked at the Kia Niro EV in the dealer showroom, and it certainly felt a much smaller vehicle.

Does it not make sense that a bigger / heavier vehicle may not get the same efficiency compared with a smaller / ligher car ?

 

 

[dab1054]

33 minutes ago, lightboxcar said:

Guessing that is for the 2WD, not the AWD

Calculation for bZ4X AWD: WLTP range is 286 ml, usable Battery 64kWh. Efficiency = 4.47 ml/kWh- actually not too bad compared with the others.

33 minutes ago, lightboxcar said:

Now we are almost always seeing 3.5 to 4 miles/Kw , and this is on short journeys too which is not very efficient anyway.

I'm also seeing much better numbers. Will do a calculation at end of month to show average ml/kWh over each month since I've had the bZ4X.

33 minutes ago, lightboxcar said:

One other thing , the bZ4X is a pretty big car.  We looked at the Kia Niro EV in the dealer showroom, and it certainly felt a much smaller vehicle.

I had a good look at the Niro EV- nearly bought one when we had the wheel bolt delay. But to make it similar quality to bZ4X I needed the top model in the range which was not available and in any case was almost as expensive as the bZ4X. bZ4X length is 4690 mm, Niro-EV is 4420 so, bZ4X is bigger but not by that much. No doubt aerodynamics is important - this is where Teslas and other sleeker cars probably have the advantage over the boxier design of the bZ4X at higher motorway speeds.

[ernieb]

Should read: These figures WILL not reflect real life driving results.

[Malop]

Results of my latest efficiency data analysis. This was a 4 day trip from Nottingham area to Manchester so included motorway driving there and back plus local travel. Had the AC on auto and eco for most of the trip (turned it off for a bit on return journey as it was warm enough in the car ).

Car is the AWD Premium.

I didn’t do any special planning but left with 100% charge at home and charged back up at home to 100% on return). Home is about 16p per KwH at the moment with the government subsidies. 

During the trip instead of using fast or rapid chargers I made use of Type 2 A/C destination chargers at 7Kw which means I was comfortable to charge to 100% each time. They cost 45p per KWh at Meadowhall and 66p at Salford Quays. I didn’t choose these locations because they had destination chargers but made use of them when I found them. Both required different apps downloading and accounts setting up. 

I’m a firm believer that destination charging is more essential to future EV use than rapid charging, it was fairly painless, no pressure to stay with car for when it got to 100% and no queuing. Both places had plenty of spaces.

So 2 top ups on the journey plus two overnight charges at home to get back to 100% (first one got me to 98)

Full data below but journey cost me 12p per mile or 8p per kilometre. As before that is plug to wheel energy usage and not taking into account any charging losses.

I’ve also done some calculations on theoretical efficiency based on full use of the 71.4kwh Battery and the 64kwh usable Battery.

[Mister Mike]

1 hour ago, Malop said:

…Both required different apps downloading and accounts setting up. 

Booh! I’m looking forward to the day when government mandates debit/credit card payment option on ALL public chargers.

[ernieb]

7 hours ago, Mister Mike said:

Booh! I’m looking forward to the day when government mandates debit/credit card payment option on ALL public chargers.

Agreed as long as the 'premium' for just using the debit/credit card is not stupid and you can be sure that many will try it on.

[Malop]

8 hours ago, Mister Mike said:

ALL public chargers.

I think for destination chargers this will be difficult, it’s the equivalent of having a parking payment device in every parking space.

but..  if they follow a model the same as parking I could see me pulling into a space, noting the bay/charger number, plugging in and then going to one of a few central payment points to activate the charge. I saw a video of a place in Germany that worked like that, it had about 100 charge points and a central hub area for paying. 

[Graham100]

10 hours ago, Malop said:

Results of my latest efficiency data analysis. This was a 4 day trip from Nottingham area to Manchester so included motorway driving there and back plus local travel. Had the AC on auto and eco for most of the trip (turned it off for a bit on return journey as it was warm enough in the car ).

Car is the AWD Premium.

I didn’t do any special planning but left with 100% charge at home and charged back up at home to 100% on return). Home is about 16p per KwH at the moment with the government subsidies. 

During the trip instead of using fast or rapid chargers I made use of Type 2 A/C destination chargers at 7Kw which means I was comfortable to charge to 100% each time. They cost 45p per KWh at Meadowhall and 66p at Salford Quays. I didn’t choose these locations because they had destination chargers but made use of them when I found them. Both required different apps downloading and accounts setting up. 

I’m a firm believer that destination charging is more essential to future EV use than rapid charging, it was fairly painless, no pressure to stay with car for when it got to 100% and no queuing. Both places had plenty of spaces.

So 2 top ups on the journey plus two overnight charges at home to get back to 100% (first one got me to 98)

Full data below but journey cost me 12p per mile or 8p per kilometre. As before that is plug to wheel energy usage and not taking into account any charging losses.

I’ve also done some calculations on theoretical efficiency based on full use of the 71.4kwh battery and the 64kwh usable battery.

Malop - thanks. An interesting report. "2.69 Miles per kWh" - not bad in my experience, albeit dire when compared to WLTP. How would you broadly describe your driving mix?  Have you a heavy or light foot?

[Malop]

9 hours ago, Graham100 said:

Have you a heavy or light foot?

I don’t hyper mile but also not racing off at very light and straight road. I stick to speed limit.

My MyT driving rating for the return journey was 88 with 3 warnings for hard braking (or bloody idiot drivers as I call them)

[bZ4X]

This is a promising study.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CpGfLb2y4Po/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

[Thanos74]

Just to make things brighter, in Cyprus with temperatures now ranging between 10-19 ºC, I've started to get an average of 16.3 kWh / 100 km and a total of 433 Km in my AWD Bz4x.

Driving with one pedal drive, ECO mode and trying not to exceed speed limit. My average driver score is 94-96.

Obviously I hope for even better range in spring or summer.

[Andreas78]

9 hours ago, Thanos74 said:

Just to make things brighter, in Cyprus with temperatures now ranging between 10-19 ºC, I've started to get an average of 16.3 kWh / 100 km and a total of 433 Km in my AWD Bz4x.

Driving with one pedal drive, ECO mode and trying not to exceed speed limit. My average driver score is 94-96.

Obviously I hope for even better range in spring or summer.

Kalota3ido file ! You definitely did brighten things up a bit Thano. Expecting my BZ4X AWD here in Cyprus in a couple of weeks. Reading some other fellow owners got me worried a bit regarding the range. Guess Cyprus weather helps a lot 😂

[dab1054]

Latest efficiency numbers for my bZ4X.

These are divided into monthly periods. The ml/kWh are calculated from actual kWh from the charger and not from the in-car efficiency. 

              Miles    kWh    ml/kWh
Nov-22    931    265    3,5
Dec-22    707    239    3,0
Jan-23    668    203    3,3
Feb-23    538    139    3,9

Overall 3.4ml/kWh (2800 miles) since I had the car in Nov 2022.

You can see the winter efficiency dip in December and January but it has started to pick up in February as temperatures increase. Mixed driving including motorway and local trips. Using ECO A/C mode until a few weeks ago when it got warm enough to use just the seat heater. Driving, I use ECO mode and use the 'one pedal' option.

Maximum range on a single 100% charge was 226 miles in Feb. Charging at cheaper night rate (16.6p/kWh, Economy 7) works out at around 5p/mile.

Hoping to see improved efficiency and range as we move into summer. Also, looking forward to start charging the car from my solar panels- once the peak solar output  is consistently above the minimum of 1.4kW needed.

 

[aiden1072]

BZ4X not all that bad really; it just has a smaller Battery than iD4, EV6.....  here is a table with Battery size vs efficiency and output range (this is not an estimate! it is a simple physical calculation) .  The mile range table is first and below that is the km table.  Along the top row is the Battery size that I put from 60 to 75 kWh. 

69kWh is probably the full useable capacity for bz4x. 62.1 kWh is the capacity with the 10% safety put in by Toyota.

75kWh is useable capacity of other 77kWh battery cars

The table is applicable to any EV, just use your efficiency and battery size to calculate range

The efficiency is affected by driving style, driving conditions (temp, wind, rain....), use of car functions like a/c etc...

for Thanos74 post above 433km equates to a 69kWh battery!  Is there really a buffer?

 

wltp of 500km equates to efficiency of about 13 kWh/100km

 

 

table for range in miles

km/kWh	mile/kWh	kWh/100km	60	62.1	65	69	75
10.00	6.21	10	373	386	404	429	466
9.09	5.65	11	339	351	367	390	424
8.33	5.18	12	311	322	337	357	388
7.69	4.78	13	287	297	311	330	358
7.14	4.44	14	266	276	288	306	333
6.67	4.14	15	249	257	269	286	311
6.25	3.88	16	233	241	252	268	291
5.88	3.66	17	219	227	238	252	274
5.56	3.45	18	207	214	224	238	259
5.26	3.27	19	196	203	213	226	245
5.00	3.11	20	186	193	202	214	233
4.76	2.96	21	178	184	192	204	222
4.55	2.82	22	169	175	184	195	212
4.35	2.70	23	162	168	176	186	203
4.17	2.59	24	155	161	168	179	194
4.00	2.49	25	149	154	162	171	186
3.85	2.39	26	143	148	155	165	179
3.70	2.30	27	138	143	150	159	173
3.57	2.22	28	133	138	144	153	166
3.45	2.14	29	129	133	139	148	161
3.33	2.07	30	124	129	135	143	155

 

next table range in km:

			range for battery size
km/kWh	mile/kWh	kWh/100km	60	62.1	65	69	75
10.00	6.21	10	600	621	650	690	750
9.09	5.65	11	545	565	591	627	682
8.33	5.18	12	500	518	542	575	625
7.69	4.78	13	462	478	500	531	577
7.14	4.44	14	429	444	464	493	536
6.67	4.14	15	400	414	433	460	500
6.25	3.88	16	375	388	406	431	469
5.88	3.66	17	353	365	382	406	441
5.56	3.45	18	333	345	361	383	417
5.26	3.27	19	316	327	342	363	395
5.00	3.11	20	300	311	325	345	375
4.76	2.96	21	286	296	310	329	357
4.55	2.82	22	273	282	295	314	341
4.35	2.70	23	261	270	283	300	326
4.17	2.59	24	250	259	271	288	313
4.00	2.49	25	240	248	260	276	300
3.85	2.39	26	231	239	250	265	288
3.70	2.30	27	222	230	241	256	278
3.57	2.22	28	214	222	232	246	268
3.45	2.14	29	207	214	224	238	259
3.33	2.07	30	200	207	217	230	250

 

 

p.s. at 9oC yesterday i got 13.9kWh/100km on  a short trip driving a easy as possible on country/urban roads, calm conditions.

on motorway last week doing 120kmh in windy conditions I averaged at around 23kWh/100km 

 

 

[dab1054]

Nice reference table, thanks. From this you can see that if you want to achieve the WLTP range in the bZ4X FWD (~310-320 miles) then you need to have an efficiency of nearly 5 ml/kWh- tough going in winter but maybe we'll see this in the peak of summer? Toyota have said that the bZ4X has 64kWh of usable Battery (rather than 62.1kWh) and this is what is reported on EV database.

However, I think this type of calculation is done for us (or should be!) with the range meter in the car. This gives an estimate of range, supposedly taking into account previous driving efficiency, outside temperature, whether A/C is on probably other factors (certainly not a very accurate estimate in the bZ4X). I wish the Battery % was given in the car display then we would know exactly how much % was left and how many miles likely. 

[aiden1072]

Battery percent given in the MyT app

[aiden1072]

for your convenience here is the table with 64kWh included

miles:
km/kWh	mile/kWh	kWh/100km	60	62.1	64	65	69	75
10.00	6.21	10	373	386	398	404	429	466
9.09	5.65	11	339	351	362	367	390	424
8.33	5.18	12	311	322	331	337	357	388
7.69	4.78	13	287	297	306	311	330	358
7.14	4.44	14	266	276	284	288	306	333
6.67	4.14	15	249	257	265	269	286	311
6.25	3.88	16	233	241	249	252	268	291
5.88	3.66	17	219	227	234	238	252	274
5.56	3.45	18	207	214	221	224	238	259
5.26	3.27	19	196	203	209	213	226	245
5.00	3.11	20	186	193	199	202	214	233
4.76	2.96	21	178	184	189	192	204	222
4.55	2.82	22	169	175	181	184	195	212
4.35	2.70	23	162	168	173	176	186	203
4.17	2.59	24	155	161	166	168	179	194
4.00	2.49	25	149	154	159	162	171	186
3.85	2.39	26	143	148	153	155	165	179
3.70	2.30	27	138	143	147	150	159	173
3.57	2.22	28	133	138	142	144	153	166
3.45	2.14	29	129	133	137	139	148	161
3.33	2.07	30	124	129	133	135	143	155

 

km:

 

			range for Battery size
km/kWh	mile/kWh	kWh/100km	60	62.1	64	65	69	75
10.00	6.21	10	600	621	640	650	690	750
9.09	5.65	11	545	565	582	591	627	682
8.33	5.18	12	500	518	533	542	575	625
7.69	4.78	13	462	478	492	500	531	577
7.14	4.44	14	429	444	457	464	493	536
6.67	4.14	15	400	414	427	433	460	500
6.25	3.88	16	375	388	400	406	431	469
5.88	3.66	17	353	365	376	382	406	441
5.56	3.45	18	333	345	356	361	383	417
5.26	3.27	19	316	327	337	342	363	395
5.00	3.11	20	300	311	320	325	345	375
4.76	2.96	21	286	296	305	310	329	357
4.55	2.82	22	273	282	291	295	314	341
4.35	2.70	23	261	270	278	283	300	326
4.17	2.59	24	250	259	267	271	288	313
4.00	2.49	25	240	248	256	260	276	300
3.85	2.39	26	231	239	246	250	265	288
3.70	2.30	27	222	230	237	241	256	278
3.57	2.22	28	214	222	229	232	246	268
3.45	2.14	29	207	214	221	224	238	259
3.33	2.07	30	200	207	213	217	230	250

 

so at 64kWh and wltp 500km implies 12-13kWh/100k  which is achievable on a flat no wind constant speed.

see next post on presales literature - very interesting

 

[aiden1072]

 

according to this FWD range is 411 - 461km.  obviously depending on driving style and temp.  I think this is the range for -5oC and 25oC

They say the loss in range in low temp is lower than competitors

[aiden1072]

sorry, the range 411-461 is actually dependent on the grade car you chose FWD. The top range FWD with all the specs is 411 and the lowest grade (with the small screen) is 461km.  so all the ancillary safety and convenience functions cost range.

[dab1054]

25 minutes ago, aiden1072 said:

battery percent given in the MyT app

Yes, Toyota gives % Battery in MYT but why not show it on the car display? It's not much use on the app when you are driving.

[aiden1072]

all in all I think we are getting equivalent performance as others EV's. its just a slightly smaller Battery and larger buffer.  however the Battery lifetime will be better.  build quality better also

 

In 5-10years the Tesla's, MG's, and Fords will be falling apart. Others the Battery will be depleted. (mho)  Hopefully depreciation will be less

[dab1054]

38 minutes ago, aiden1072 said:

 

according to this FWD range is 411 - 461km.  obviously depending on driving style and temp.  I think this is the range for -5oC and 25oC

They say the loss in range in low temp is lower than competitors

Interesting...looks as though Toyota is starting the fight back over the winter range controversy! I assume this is from a Toyota official source? 

[philip42h]

29 minutes ago, dab1054 said:

Interesting...looks as though Toyota is starting the fight back over the winter range controversy! I assume this is from a Toyota official source? 

I'm not sure that "starting the fight back" is quite the right phrase - this is clearly historic marketing material which maybe partially to blame for setting customer expectations too high in the first place.

See:

and

The bZ4X is what it is - neither the best, nor the worst, EV on the market.