Range and efficiency/consumption

[egg]

Tesla Bjorn, probably the best ev tester out there, has just live streamed the 1000km challenge in BZ4X last night/this morning. 

He's finally got his hands on BZ4X. 

He's done a headlight review already, so hopefully won't be long until an he uploads an overview of the 1000km challenge along with his thoughts

[Cyker]

8 hours ago, aiden1072 said:

all in all I think we are getting equivalent performance as others EV's. its just a slightly smaller battery and larger buffer.  however the battery lifetime will be better.  build quality better also

 

In 5-10years the Tesla's, MG's, and Fords will be falling apart. Others the battery will be depleted. (mho)  Hopefully depreciation will be less

That's one 'problem' (Not really a problem ) with EV drivetrains - They're already about as efficient as they're likely to get as we've been optimizing them for as long, if not longer, than ICE engines, albeit in industrial environments.

The key to them taking off is still resting on major advancements in Battery tech...

[lightboxcar]

We have gradually started to get less 'obsessive' about the range.

Still record start and finish figures for each 'tank' of elecricity, and get a figure for overall range.

One thing with EV cars that is great is this; you need to hang around for an hour or two waiting in the car for some reason, and it's freezing.

With an ICE you need to run the engine to get the heater working, and many people/places don't like that, and it is a bit noisy.

With the bZ4X, it's brilliant, just turn on the power and heater for 15 minutes and the car is super warm.  It then lasts quite a long time as the car seems very well insuated.

The range of course takes the inevitable hit.  This week had to do two separate waits of a few hours, so used the heater quite a bit whilst stationary, and still got 170 miles for 100% SOC down to 7% SOC.

Of course Paul's way of tracking the total Kw of energy put into the car is by far the best method, unfortunately our stupid dumb charger can't connect to anything, so we don't know these figures.

On 1/22/2023 at 6:04 PM, Malop said:

I've been tracking all my charges and I've put a total of 448.39 kWh into the battery.

We have only ever charged via the home charger, not used any public charger yet.  Usually only need one full charge to last the whole week.

In our view, the car handles really well, truly amazing off road capabilites.  And it is a real pleasure to drive.

 

[Malop]

7 hours ago, lightboxcar said:

And it is a real pleasure to drive

The way I describe it to people who ask is

The BZ4X is an amazing car but it’s lacking as an EV. 

Luckily some of the EV shortcomings can be fixed by software. You can’t fix the drive experience with software

[Graham100]

20 hours ago, aiden1072 said:

 

according to this FWD range is 411 - 461km.  obviously depending on driving style and temp.  I think this is the range for -5oC and 25oC

They say the loss in range in low temp is lower than competitors

Hi Aiden.  Where do these figures come from. They say for an AWD it has a minimum range of 381Km - 238 miles. I have never achieved that or close to that. 160 miles is my best so far!

[swoop5511]

23 hours ago, Malop said:

The way I describe it to people who ask is

The BZ4X is an amazing car but it’s lacking as an EV. 

Luckily some of the EV shortcomings can be fixed by software. You can’t fix the drive experience with software

That is exactly what i say when asked about the car. "excellent car, but very average EV". And some of that averageness is fixeable via SW update. For context, after test driving a Model Y pre BZ purchase. I was never going to by Tesla based on Musk alone, but wanted to have a understanding how it drives etc, I would describe the model Y and tesla's in general. "Excellent EVs, but very average cars at best". And "you" need to decide what matters most to you. Unless you're going into the 6 figure pricing of Mercedes EQS you will make some concessions one way or another. At least at the moment. Kia and Hyundai are ahead of the game and have the most balanced offering at the moment. 

[IvayloK]

Looking at my latest electricity bill I m paying 40p per kilowatt with standing charge included and I wonder if I buy a electric car how much will cost to charge at Tesla or other charging station. Can someone please share charging figures here. Just wonder how much it cost with the latest price increase. Thanks 

[Cyker]

Tesla seems to be up and down; My friend was paying over 60p/kWh a month or so ago to supercharge his 3, but last time I spoke to him it was down to 40-50-something.

Public charger costs are all over the place, best to use things like ZapMap to see what a given charger costs. I think the high end is 70-80p/kWh but we're expecting those to climb to £1/kWh soon.

I'm not sure if Tesla destination chargers are still free (As opposed to the Superchargers). Some places round here still have free charging, e.g. libraries, but they're permanently hogged, and a lot of supermarkets have started charging 30-40p/kWh as they can't just swallow the cost any more.

[philip42h]

19 minutes ago, IvayloK said:

Looking at my latest electricity bill I m paying 40p per kilowatt with standing charge included and I wonder if I buy a electric car how much will cost to charge at Tesla or other charging station. Can someone please share charging figures here. Just wonder how much it cost with the latest price increase. Thanks 

ZapMap gives details of charging networks and costs: Public EV charging networks UK.

At the time of writing 69p / kWh seems typical ...

[aiden1072]

Managed 13.5 kWh/100km, see below.

It was 10C, calm conditions, urban/country roads. Easy acceleration and deceleration. Busy roads. Max speed 90km/h

That's really good, equates to >450km with 64kWh

[Graham100]

2 hours ago, aiden1072 said:

Managed 13.5 kWh/100km, see below.

It was 10C, calm conditions, urban/country roads. Easy acceleration and deceleration. Busy roads. Max speed 90km/h

That's really good, equates to >450km with 64kWh

Thanks. This equates to 2.2 kWh/mile, if my calculation is correct, the same that I am achieving 2.2 - 2.3.  This reflects the 150-160 miles per full charge I achieve.  I wouldn't say it was "good" when compared to the 250miles I consistently achieved with the Niro e I had for two years, a marginally lighter and smaller car, and 2WD, but with a smaller Battery 64K gross.

[aiden1072]

Graham

I think your calculation is incorrect 

13.5kwh/100km = 4.5 mile/kwh

In kwh/ mile that's 0.2 kwh/mile

450 km equals about 279 miles

See table I posted above

[egg]

On 3/3/2023 at 4:41 PM, egg said:

Tesla Bjorn, probably the best ev tester out there, has just live streamed the 1000km challenge in BZ4X last night/this morning. 

He's finally got his hands on BZ4X. 

He's done a headlight review already, so hopefully won't be long until an he uploads an overview of the 1000km challenge along with his thoughts

Just to let everyone know, his AWD range test is now on youtube

[lightboxcar]

2 hours ago, egg said:

his AWD range test is now on youtube

Are we reading this correctly ??

The test was over a distance of 1000Km ( 621 miles ) with ambient temperatures of -1 degrees C

And the journey took over 15 hours ????

[dab1054]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Just to let everyone know, his AWD range test is now on youtube

I though the review was done well -  with some careful measurements of power consumption, range etc. (unlike a lot of other reviews which make little attempt to be objective). It was entirely motorway style driving at constant 90 or 120km/h so doesn't really look at overall efficiency including around town/short journeys which make up a large portion of most people's journeys. Also, I read that Toyota display efficiency is calculated to include charging losses- and if Toyota changed this to bring it in line with other EVs it could add about 10% to the displayed efficiency.

Also, it would be good to see the AWD compared with the FWD.

I was interested in the OBD linked (I assume) app which showed lots of useful  information about Battery state , temperature etc. Anyone know anything about this?

 

 

[egg]

26 minutes ago, dab1054 said:

I though the review was done well -  with some careful measurements of power consumption, range etc. (unlike a lot of other reviews which make little attempt to be objective). It was entirely motorway style driving at constant 90 or 120km/h so doesn't really look at overall efficiency including around town/short journeys which make up a large portion of most people's journeys. Also, I read that Toyota display efficiency is calculated to include charging losses- and if Toyota changed this to bring it in line with other EVs it could add about 10% to the displayed efficiency.

Also, it would be good to see the AWD compared with the FWD.

I was interested in the OBD linked (I assume) app which showed lots of useful  information about battery state , temperature etc. Anyone know anything about this?

 

 

Yes, it's the carscanner app which i have. It now has the ability to select BZ4X which it didn't initially have when i first got my bluetooth OBD dongle

[egg]

37 minutes ago, lightboxcar said:

Are we reading this correctly ??

The test was over a distance of 1000Km ( 621 miles ) with ambient temperatures of -1 degrees C

And the journey took over 15 hours ????

He's posted a short range test video which he does for all vehicles, along with efficiency, while cruising at 90kmh and 120kmh.

It's not the 1000km range test video

[adidev]

1 hour ago, dab1054 said:

I though the review was done well -  with some careful measurements of power consumption, range etc. (unlike a lot of other reviews which make little attempt to be objective). It was entirely motorway style driving at constant 90 or 120km/h so doesn't really look at overall efficiency including around town/short journeys which make up a large portion of most people's journeys. Also, I read that Toyota display efficiency is calculated to include charging losses- and if Toyota changed this to bring it in line with other EVs it could add about 10% to the displayed efficiency.

Also, it would be good to see the AWD compared with the FWD.

I was interested in the OBD linked (I assume) app which showed lots of useful  information about battery state , temperature etc. Anyone know anything about this?

 

 

Can someone do a short bullet points from this video, I don't have enough patience to see it all. Thanks

[dab1054]

1 hour ago, adidev said:

Can someone do a short bullet points from this video, I don't have enough patience to see it all. Thanks

bZ4X AWD version was tested in Norway over a standard 100km+ route under motorway conditions at constant speeds. Car HVAC at 22C. Outside temp 6-7C.  Normal driving mode.

At 90 kph (56mph) efficiency was 20.5kWh/100km (3.0 ml/kWh)

At 120 kph (75mph) efficiency was 29.3 kWh/100km (2.1 ml/kWh)

Under similar conditions the EV6 and Ariya were better but not by a huge margin, Tesla efficiency was way ahead of the others. Possibly the bZ4X software upgrade may close the gap between bZ4X and the EV6 and Ariya (but probably not the Tesla)

Also of note- 10% Battery reserve confirmed at zero miles and Battery was actually at 95% charge when indicated full.  Rapid charging possible at over 140kW after Battery was 'warmed'. 

I've attached a screenshot summary.

 

[dab1054]

3 hours ago, egg said:

Yes, it's the carscanner app which i have. It now has the ability to select BZ4X which it didn't initially have when i first got my Bluetooth OBD dongle

Thanks- good to hear that the bZ4X is listed. I've ordered my OBD dongle now so should have this running soon.

[lightboxcar]

4 hours ago, dab1054 said:

Rapid charging possible at over 140kW after battery was 'warmed'

What does this mean, please can you explain how to warm the Battery ?

Thanks

[egg]

57 minutes ago, lightboxcar said:

What does this mean, please can you explain how to warm the battery ?

Thanks

The only way to warm the Battery on a car without preheating, is to drive aggressively with the accelerator and also regen. The flow of current in and out of the Battery should help to warm it which could be helpful in cold weather. 

The following is worth a watch, not something you would probably do, but shows what a difference it can make in extreme cold 

 

[adidev]

59 minutes ago, egg said:

The only way to warm the battery on a car without preheating, is to drive aggressively with the accelerator and also regen. The flow of current in and out of the battery should help to warm it which could be helpful in cold weather. 

The following is worth a watch, not something you would probably do, but shows what a difference it can make in extreme cold 

 

They better (retro-)fit some Battery pre-conditioning systems. It's just asking for trouble when in freezing temperature people will start doing this 'yo-yo' thing on the mways 😂

[nielshm]

18 hours ago, egg said:

He's posted a short range test video which he does for all vehicles, along with efficiency, while cruising at 90kmh and 120kmh.

It's not the 1000km range test video

And he could'nt complete the short test cycle with 90 km/h. He would run out of juice if he tried.

Every time temp. is around 0 ot 5 degree, some sort of poor EV/battery performance defense start up: It's winter, it's cold, it's not normal conditions, thats to be expected. 

Well, if winter OR cold tempratures last 4 or 5 months a year, I can't live with at car like that. NO WAY. 

[MrMicroChip]

I think the biggest effect on efficiency is Driving Style and Outside Temperature.  The other day (with a full battery), I drove around 80 miles along mixed roads at 8 degrees centigrade.  Upon arrival, the car was reporting 220 miles left (from 300 miles at the start of the journey).  That seems pretty good to me.