Range and efficiency/consumption

[G S]

 

12 hours ago, philip42h said:

The report is Danish. The test is German - "German Autobild has tested 51 electric cars on the same stretch of motorway at 130 km/h."

But that aside, I would be surprised if Toyota sold cars with significantly different specifications across Europe. Can you provide a link to Toyota publications that specify ranges of 504 km or 515 km?

 

411 - 513km

https://www.toyota.dk/nye-biler/bz4x

[philip42h]

40 minutes ago, G S said:

411 - 513km

https://www.toyota.dk/nye-biler/bz4x

... and immediately under that it says "De angivne værdier ovenover er midlertidige og ikke endelige. De er de laveste og højeste i motorprogrammet og ikke nødvendigvis repræsentative for en specifik modelkombination." Which Google tells me translates as: "The values given above are temporary and not final. They are the lowest and highest in the engine range and not necessarily representative of a specific model combination."

But I take the point - Toyota Denmark do still seem to be trying to claim a WLTP range of over 500 km ... which, TBH, I rather suspect is a pre-launch marketing aim rather than a verifiable homologated WLTP result.

On the website they claim:

While the Technical Specification include no environmental performance figures at all.

bZ4X specs.pdf

[bZ4X]

6 minutes ago, philip42h said:

... and immediately under that it says "De angivne værdier ovenover er midlertidige og ikke endelige. De er de laveste og højeste i motorprogrammet og ikke nødvendigvis repræsentative for en specifik modelkombination." Which Google tells me translates as: "The values given above are temporary and not final. They are the lowest and highest in the engine range and not necessarily representative of a specific model combination."

But I take the point - Toyota Denmark do still seem to be trying to claim a WLTP range of over 500 km ... which, TBH, I rather suspect is a pre-launch marketing aim rather than a verifiable homologated WLTP result.

On the website they claim:

While the Technical Specification include no environmental performance figures at all.

bZ4X specs.pdf 3.71 MB · 1 download

Now JBL sound system is standart with Executive trim?

 

What is the advantage of Premiere Edition now? 

[dab1054]

1 hour ago, philip42h said:

But I take the point - Toyota Denmark do still seem to be trying to claim a WLTP range of over 500 km ... which, TBH, I rather suspect is a pre-launch marketing aim rather than a verifiable homologated WLTP result.

 

The 500+ km WLTP range has always been there for the base model bZ4X.

 

From EV database official WLTP ranges:

bZ4X FWD 321 ml (517 km)

bZ4X AWD 286 ml (460 km)

From memory these are the same as when bZ4X was first released.

 

The new bZ4X 2024 models (from Toyota web page) have similar WLTP ranges:

FWD Pure 318 ml (512 km)

AWD Motion 286 ml (460 km)

AWD Vision 260 ml (418 km)

 

[philip42h]

9 hours ago, dab1054 said:

The new bZ4X 2024 models (from Toyota web page) have similar WLTP ranges:

I can't argue with that ... 🙂

The FWD Motion claims 313.17 miles range, while the AWD Motion claims 286.45 miles range. While I'm suspicious of the accuracy to the nearest hundredth of a mile and 'surprised' that swapping a single 150kW motor for a pair of 80kW motors makes quite that much difference and can't argue with the figures.

It would be interesting to get hold of the actual WLTP test results rather than be limited to seeing a WLTP Combined test range.

And it would be interesting to learn from bZ4X owners what range, efficiency and performance stats are published in their Certificate of Conformity for their particular model.

But at the end of the day, the car performs as it does, and I don't have one (yet) ... 😉

[bZ4X]

From Toyota Question and Answers:

Hi Raj, congratulations on your bZ4X.

 

At Toyota, we highly value any customer feedback and are paying our utmost attention to voice of the customer. Based on this and in the spirit of Kaizen, we will soon make a software update including several product enhancements available for the all-electric bZ4X.

 

The enhancements will be available via software update and include improvements of the DC-charging performance and the visualisation of the remaining range, current state of charge (SOC) and real-life energy consumption.

 

Currently, bZ4X has a range buffer providing customers a safety margin in case no charger can be immediately found when the meter-displayed range is 0 km. This to avoid that the vehicle immediately stops when remaining range reaches 0 km. Following customer feedback, we will decrease the range buffer by making a bigger part of the range (around 10 to 15km depending on conditions) visible for the driver and optimize the hidden safety buffer.

 

We hope this helps.

[Matthewv]

Hi, I have a BZ4X FWD, my range after a full charge has dropped to 230miles. i have been recording my mileage range etc for the last month and my average consumption is 2.86M/kWh @ £0.12 per mile. Over this period i have rarely had the fan on and running on ECO mode 80% of my driving is motorway.

Cant understand why the range has dropped from 280 when i got the car to 230 miles, can any one help?

[G S]

1 hour ago, Matthewv said:

Hi, I have a BZ4X FWD, my range after a full charge has dropped to 230miles. i have been recording my mileage range etc for the last month and my average consumption is 2.86M/kWh @ £0.12 per mile. Over this period i have rarely had the fan on and running on ECO mode 80% of my driving is motorway.

Cant understand why the range has dropped from 280 when i got the car to 230 miles, can any one help?

because you have been driving on the motorway and it learns your habits so predicts accordingly.

After I did a number of 200mile non motorway routes my range improved and so did the predicted range, 2 long motorway journeys later it had dropped back down

[dab1054]

56 minutes ago, G S said:

because you have been driving on the motorway and it learns your habits so predicts accordingly.

After I did a number of 200mile non motorway routes my range improved and so did the predicted range, 2 long motorway journeys later it had dropped back down

Yes, agree with that. If you go at motorway speeds ~ 70mph then range and consumption/efficiency will drop. After a few long motorway trips my bZ4X FWD range went to 251 miles and gave about 3 ml/kWh (when temps were below zero). With more local trips range has been in the 278-280 miles. Latest was 295 miles / 4ml/kWh after the recent warmer weather.

[aiden1072]

Getting much better efficiencies now with temperatures  10-15C . Below 10C I was averaging 19-20 kwh/100km. Now >10C I am doing average 15-16 kwh/100km. On a couple of trips I even got 12.8kwh/100km. On charging fully the dash showed range of 438km. 

[Cyker]

Same here with my Mk4 hybrid; It's crazy how much more these 'cold blooded' vehicles are affected by temperature!

 

[tonyj154]

I get around 220 miles AWD with eco and regen on. Mainly A Roads.

It's the heating and AC that kill the mileage. I've bought a 12v cigar lighter car heater.

 

Works a treat.

[Thanos74]

With warmer weather at 23 ºC, I got 473 Km (AWD Eco and Regen on). 40% city roads, 60% mountain roads.

[bZ4X]

3 minutes ago, Thanos74 said:

With warmer weather at 23 ºC, I got 473 Km (AWD Eco and Regen on). 40% city roads, 60% mountain roads.

After software update in May, we must see minumum %5 increase in the range! 

[aiden1072]

That is is very good!

[DíarmuidIRL]

1 hour ago, Thanos74 said:

With warmer weather at 23 ºC, I got 473 Km (AWD Eco and Regen on). 40% city roads, 60% mountain roads.

Is that the MyT app, I can't see that sort of screen, I only get my last journey if I click on EV Coaching?

 

[DíarmuidIRL]

First run from 100% SOC to 5% last week. GOM said 450km, did 363km, so a 87km deficit. Averaged 16.7kWh/100km. Temperature varied from a low of 8 to a high of 14c.

Three days commuting from Ashford to South Dublin (mix of dual carriage way and urban roads) at rush hour - round trip of between 122 & 99km with extra short trips and local drives on Saturday and today. Thursday, Friday and Saturday was driving in very wet conditions.

ACC on dual carriage way and regenerative brake on the rest of the time, drive in Eco mode.

Forgot to turn off the heating a few times, but largely just used heated seat and steering wheel.

Driving style was calm, so 90ish most of the time on the dual carriage way.

Happy with that result, real range 370km ish from 100% to 0%.  Sorry about the quality of the photo

IMG_2051.HEIC

[DíarmuidIRL]

FWD, Sport trim

 

[dab1054]

Consumption / efficiency / range conversions from km to miles and miles to km

(so we can compare!)

 

kWh/100ml	kWh/100km	ml/kWh	km/kWh
20	12,4	5,0	8,1
25	15,5	4,0	6,5
30	18,6	3,3	5,4
40	24,8	2,5	4,0
kWh/100km	kWh/100ml	km/kWh	ml/kWh
10	16	10,0	6,3
15	24	6,7	4,2
20	32	5,0	3,1
25	40	4,0	2,5

miles	km
300	482
250	402
200	322
150	241
km	miles
500	310
400	249
300	186
200	124

 

[aiden1072]

not any real savings on owning an EV, see attached.  The cost and depreciation is the big downside. electricity cost  can be offset by having solar but only a dent in the overall cost of ownership

TCO - How Electric Vehicles and Ice Vehicles Compare - 2022.pdf

[leosayer]

4 hours ago, aiden1072 said:

not any real savings on owning an EV, see attached.  The cost and depreciation is the big downside. electricity cost  can be offset by having solar but only a dent in the overall cost of ownership

TCO - How Electric Vehicles and Ice Vehicles Compare - 2022.pdf 1.53 MB · 7 downloads

This is a paper  with unsabstantiated comments and conclusions.

[aiden1072]

It's actually a yearly or biyearly publication . Look up the website, very interesting.  The report for 2018 was much worse for EV with depreciation being the big loss. Hybrids fare worst of all! Not surprised really. 

[philip42h]

8 hours ago, aiden1072 said:

It's actually a yearly or biyearly publication . Look up the website, very interesting.  The report for 2018 was much worse for EV with depreciation being the big loss. Hybrids fare worst of all! Not surprised really. 

The report posted compares the costs of running an ID.3 vs Golf in 22 European countries. Since most of us run neither and operate in only one country its relevance is rather doubtful ... 😉

I couldn't find any reference to hybrids at all. Nor Toyota models. In another report (The Car Cost Index) they compare they cost of running BEV, PHEV, Petrol and Diesel cars across various segments across the same 22 European countries. It shows that there isn't really a lot of difference in the TCO between the engine types - BEVs lose most in terms of depreciation but save most in terms of running costs.

And that comparability is likely to remain the case. BEVs should become relatively cheaper so that the rate of depreciation should fall, but the cost of electricity will rise as various subsidies are removed and power demand increases.

For me, running cost never has been the overriding factor. Rather convenience and confidence that I could easily get to my destination ... 😉

[egg]

Just got back from trip to Skegness and back. Car said 230 miles when fully charged (usually says approx 226 miles).

105 miles there, approx 45% motorways, rest was on A roads, 50/60mph interspersed with 30/40mph areas.

12 degrees C and dry roads, got to destination using 44% according to app.

Approx 10/15 miles running around local roads while there.

Came back another route yesterday, similar route/speeds, but not exactly the same.

14 degrees C dry roads again, car said zero range left approx 2 miles from home.

Did 212 miles in total, pretty clear roads both directions, did the speed limit on all roads.

At approx 29/30 miles range left, car said low traction Battery, please charge, and sat nav showed nearby chargers, i just cleared this message and carried on.

When car got to approx 2 miles range left, warning stayed on screen saying something about reduced power please charge, and you couldn't clear it, carried on was near home. (the vehicle actually starts showing reduced power from about 30 miles range left but still plenty)

When car went to zero miles range i checked my app and it said i still had 2% Battery remaining (plus i know there's approx another 8% below zero)

 Got home after driving 2 miles past zero indicated range, and the app still said i had 1% Battery remaining.

I didn't use/need to use the heater/air con/fan at any point.

I don't think that range is too bad.

There was an MFG ev charging station with approx 8 chargers i could have used, just over half way home on the return leg, but chose not to.

My car is FWD with the big wheels, so anyone FWD and smaller wheels should get approx 12% more range.

[egg]

Also, as for cost, i charge at home and just charge for the cheap 4 hours i get at 7.5p per Kwh.

So this equates to under a fiver.

I did, however, put approx 1 hour of expensive electricity (38p per Kwh), into the car when i got home so it wasn't sat at such a low state of charge until it charged last night. (so this has probably bumped the actual cost up to approx £6.50 ish).

Also, looking at the app, i seem to have averaged approx 3.5 miles per Kwh for both journeys