Range and efficiency/consumption

[FROSTYBALLS]

24 minutes ago, W id said:

so the question remains if there is something Toyota ca do about that using existing batteries. 

The fact that we're independent, have no links with Toyota, and Toyota doesn't visit the Club, is why I posted earlier about raising the question with Toyota.

[nielshm]

Another danish review, and with comparison to other brands.

https://fdm.dk/nyheder/nyt-om-biler/2022-11-ny-elbil-skuffer-slemt-raekkevidde

FDM tests are bit different. Speed is set to 110 km/h, and are driven on motorway untill empty.

[Mister Mike]

It was pretty chilly yesterday when I charged my vehicle at a 350kW charger for the second time. I thought I would be clever by activating the A/C part way through the charge. Shortly thereafter charging stopped and the display on the charger reported an undefined error. Oh dear. I had a look at the display a few times and it never got as high as 50kW, I presume because of the cold.

[W id]

34 minutes ago, nielshm said:

Another danish review, and with comparison to other brands.

https://fdm.dk/nyheder/nyt-om-biler/2022-11-ny-elbil-skuffer-slemt-raekkevidde

FDM tests are bit different. Speed is set to 110 km/h, and are driven on motorway untill empty.

So 30% is expected as a loss in really

cold climates as here in Sweden but not 50. Toyota as big as they are should not have to be worse than any other big carmaker. Only one that is close to Toyotas numbers is chines aiways a car that has gotten really bad reviews on everything. 

[Kieran78]

Here's another absolutely ridiculous video from the Electric Viking about the BZ4X. There's so many things factually wrong in this video it makes me want to hit him a smack.

 

 

[philip42h]

Out of idle curiosity / academic interest I'd love to know the best and worst economy / consumption figures that bZ4X owners are achieving - in miles / kWh or whatever ... 🙂

(Over a reasonable length journey that is rather than 'instantaneous' 😉 )

[Rajavina]

30 minutes ago, philip42h said:

Out of idle curiosity / academic interest I'd love to know the best and worst economy / consumption figures that bZ4X owners are achieving - in miles / kWh or whatever ... 🙂

(Over a reasonable length journey that is rather than 'instantaneous' 😉 )

Driven 1000 miles so far. I have driven 100miles nonstop 4 times so far. 80% on M roads. Outside temperature was 3 to 7 degrees, raining on couple of trips, Climate ECO and driving ECO, cruise control 70mph. Pre warming the car for 10 to 15 mins to 23 degree C.

My FWD vision gives me 2.6 to 2.8 miles/kWh.

Local town driving ( 5 to 10 miles)the best I have seen is 3.9miles/kWh. Lowest is less than 2miles/kWh when you do very short trips (less than 3miles). Average outside temperature around 5 to 7 degrees C.

[Graham100]

1 hour ago, Kieran78 said:

Here's another absolutely ridiculous video from the Electric Viking about the BZ4X. There's so many things factually wrong in this video it makes me want to hit him a smack.

 

 

For the all-wheel drive bZ4X Motion, the official range is 285 miles (3.9 miles per kWh).  The best I have achieved so far is just over 170 miles.

[nielshm]

1 hour ago, Kieran78 said:

Here's another absolutely ridiculous video from the Electric Viking about the BZ4X. There's so many things factually wrong in this video it makes me want to hit him a smack.

 

 

Why would you smack him? It sounds like resonable, why would'ny Toyota tell a lie about Battery issues? Remember all the trouble that Ford went throgh, when the Kuga PHEV's started to fail?

[adidev]

10 hours ago, nielshm said:

Why would you smack him? It sounds like resonable, why would'ny Toyota tell a lie about battery issues? Remember all the trouble that Ford went throgh, when the Kuga PHEV's started to fail?

Interesting video but... as he mentioned, thousands of engineers and trying to hide something that will surface very quick with made up story about wheels falling off? That sounds even worse. He might be right, there might be something wrong with the car, as 6 months just to fix the wheels problem sounds a very long time. We'll wait and see.

[Kieran78]

A new article from Motor about the Bz4x.

https://www.motor.no/aktuelt/toyota-mangler-fortsatt-svar-pa-bz4x-rekkevidde-mysteriet/238404

[APS]

11 minutes ago, Kieran78 said:

A new article from Motor about the Bz4x.

https://www.motor.no/aktuelt/toyota-mangler-fortsatt-svar-pa-bz4x-rekkevidde-mysteriet/238404

The usual Toyota approach of very conservative Battery level calculations appear to be biting them. This is what they have done in all hybrids where they have been able to eke out very long usable life from batteries by effectively using a sliding window representing a fraction of the batteries' actual capacity. This is presumably how they intend to also offer long life expectancy in the BEVs. 

 

[duncerduncs]

On 12/5/2022 at 11:06 PM, adidev said:

Interesting video but... as he mentioned, thousands of engineers and trying to hide something that will surface very quick with made up story about wheels falling off? That sounds even worse. He might be right, there might be something wrong with the car, as 6 months just to fix the wheels problem sounds a very long time. We'll wait and see.

Let's clear this one up, before it ends up with us all wearing tin foil hats....

Firstly it wasn't 6 months, it was a smidgen over 4 (June to September).

Secondly, the fault lay with the materials used in the alloy wheels provided by a 3rd party.  The fault meant that the hub bolts could gently work loose.

So Toyota had two choices, supply new alloy wheels to all cars built or fix the issue on built cars and implement the fix into cars on the production line.

(they actually did a bit of both!)

Thirdly, Toyota needed to check the fix for the hub bolts actually worked - the only way to do this was to test the cars fitted with the fix, knowing Toyota they probably tested beyond the limit to be safe.

Lastly, and this is the 'smoking gun', the issue also affected the Crown and Tundra models - neither of which are BEVs!!

It may shock you to learn that it takes time to develop a fix, especially in the post pandemic world we live in, especially when you haven't experienced the fault in testing....

I'm afraid the Electric Viking is talking complete male cow poo!

[Kieran78]

3 hours ago, duncerduncs said:

Let's clear this one up, before it ends up with us all wearing tin foil hats....

Firstly it wasn't 6 months, it was a smidgen over 4 (June to September).

Secondly, the fault lay with the materials used in the alloy wheels provided by a 3rd party.  The fault meant that the hub bolts could gently work loose.

So Toyota had two choices, supply new alloy wheels to all cars built or fix the issue on built cars and implement the fix into cars on the production line.

(they actually did a bit of both!)

Thirdly, Toyota needed to check the fix for the hub bolts actually worked - the only way to do this was to test the cars fitted with the fix, knowing Toyota they probably tested beyond the limit to be safe.

Lastly, and this is the 'smoking gun', the issue also affected the Crown and Tundra models - neither of which are BEVs!!

It may shock you to learn that it takes time to develop a fix, especially in the post pandemic world we live in, especially when you haven't experienced the fault in testing....

I'm afraid the Electric Viking is talking complete male cow poo!

I totally agree, he just completely exaggerates, embellishes facts and comes up with ludicrous theories.

On occasions, "some" of his videos are interesting especially videos about new Battery technology etc that might hit the market in the next year's, but overall, the majority of his videos are click-bait garage and he's very anti-Toyota anyway.

[Kieran78]

A new update from Norweign website Elbil24 ... 

https://www.elbil24.no/nyheter/toyota-om-bz4x-vi-onsker-a-beskytte-kundene-vare/77980881

Even after reading this, I'm still undecided as to whether to buy the BZ4X in January.

 

[philip42h]

44 minutes ago, Kieran78 said:

A new update from Norweign website Elbil24 ... 

https://www.elbil24.no/nyheter/toyota-om-bz4x-vi-onsker-a-beskytte-kundene-vare/77980881

Even after reading this, I'm still undecided as to whether to buy the BZ4X in January.

I still don't have any time or patience with attention seeking journalists like Elbil24.

Their principle headline is that in their "real world" test the bZ4X delivers a range that is well short of the WLTP range figure. That is to be expected and should come as no surprise to any competent motoring journalist. Any potential EV owner that expects to achieve the WLTP range figure in the real world shouldn't be buying an EV ... 😉

Anyone with experience of Toyota would expect there to be a decent reserve, typically about 10%, at the bottom end - i.e. when the car reports the range as down to zero there will be about 10% fuel / charge left. And then you have a decent chance to getting to a refueling station before the car stops completely. That is just a fact of Toyota life ... again nothing that any competent motoring journalist should be getting excited about. And EV owners do not really want to run below about 10% charge if they want to benefit from rapid charging rates at a DC charger. (It's OK if they are going home to recharge overnight on an AC charger.)

What is perhaps interesting is the statement that "there is a relatively large buffer at the top and bottom". We know about, and would expect, the 10% reserve at the bottom ... But it is unclear to what extent there is a protective buffer at the top. One might expect the car to limit acceptance of charge from a DC charger from around 80% - so somewhere above the 57kWh mark - but equally one would expect to get all the way to the claimed capacity of 71.4kWh using a slow AC charger.

[ernieb]

My understanding when I was looking at buying the PHEV and visited the US forums a lot was that the reserve at the top end was to do with the longevity of the traction Battery and could be released as the Battery deteriorated with time and charge cycles. This was there to extend the Battery life and warranty?

[philip42h]

18 minutes ago, ernieb said:

My understanding when I was looking at buying the PHEV and visited the US forums a lot was that the reserve at the top end was to do with the longevity of the traction battery and could be released as the battery deteriorated with time and charge cycles. This was there to extend the battery life and warranty?

... which is fine and reasonable. For the Ioniq 5, EVDB give the Battery capacity as "77.4 kWh nominal, 74.0 kWh useable" - so you know that you have only the 74.0 kWh to play with.

Toyota quote the Battery capacity for the bZ4X as 71.4 kWh - as if that is both gross and useable. EVDB give the Battery capacity for the bZ4X as "75.0 kWh nominal, 71.4 kWh useable" but they are estimating the nominal capacity.

I rather suspect that when all the dust settles it will turn out that the bZ4X has a battery capacity of "71.4 kWh nominal, 68.0 kWh useable" ... but, of course, I made that last number up all by myself - no one should believe that it is correct or true! 😉

[Malop]

21 minutes ago, philip42h said:

71.4 kWh nominal, 68.0 kWh useable" ...

At least we know the title of the Electric Vikings next YouTube video now 😂😂😂

[duncerduncs]

Toyota have admitted that the usable is a "moving number".

64.2 kWh would be a good 'starter for 10' as we know there to be a 9% buffer in cold weather.  Toyota have already stated that they plan to get that down to nearer 6% which would give a usable 67.2 kWh instead. 

Admittedly, that's a far too big a title for a YouTube video....

[ernieb]

Whenever I look at YouTube reviews I have to remember that these guys are making a good living from the output and like news papers they need a catchy headline, a hook to draw you in. Many times nothing at all to do with the content.

[Kieran78]

How is everyone's range/consumption in this cold weather ? Does anyone do a long daily commute in their BZ4X ?

 

[Graham100]

On 12/8/2022 at 10:33 AM, Kieran78 said:

A new update from Norweign website Elbil24 ... 

https://www.elbil24.no/nyheter/toyota-om-bz4x-vi-onsker-a-beskytte-kundene-vare/77980881

Even after reading this, I'm still undecided as to whether to buy the BZ4X in January.

 

Only if you are OK with a range of 175 miles for a AWD

[Petro Luigi]

Took the display model from my local Toyota garage, in the west of Ireland.

-1 outside temp. The car was showing 211km left before switching on the heating. Once the heating was switched on, the range went down to 145km. 

I drove 17km before I reached the motorway and the range, with the heating on at 21.5 degrees, lost 18km. 

On the motorway, with the cruise speed set up at 118km/h, I drove the car for 25km with the actual range displayed shortened by 35 km, so a ratio of 1:1.4 while on the motorway. 

The sales guy was saying that once the car is fully charged, if switched on with the heating on, the max displayed range is 370 ish km. 

If the range loss is linear, applying the ratio mentioned above, this woukd give a real life range of 265km on the motorway. Just above half of the WLTP. It does not look great, but considering the outside temperature and the fact that the car only had 349km in total, so the Battery is still not at "full working capacity", there is hope that once the weather improves, the range on the motorway woukd also improve. 

I could be too optimistic, but I'm still inclined to get my one. 

[bZ4xSupra]

The AWD will not do 200 miles in cold Winter.

That's the headline.