Harsh ride

[Tel999]

Hi.

I have a 2017 AvensisvExcel  estate 2.0D.

I find the ride is harsh and I am putting this down to the 225.45.18 tyres. I was thinking of replacing them with 225.55.18 tyres. I realise the Speedo would be slightly out but I am thinking, maybe the ride would improve.

Any thoughts or recommendations gladly received.

[TonyHSD]

4 hours ago, Tel999 said:

Hi.

I have a 2017 AvensisvExcel  estate 2.0D.

I find the ride is harsh and I am putting this down to the 225.45.18 tyres. I was thinking of replacing them with 225.55.18 tyres. I realise the Speedo would be slightly out but I am thinking, maybe the ride would improve.

Any thoughts or recommendations gladly received.

Hi Terry, 

Toyota cars has harsh ride because of their suspension set up first and then as a result of tyre sizes and types. Sometimes in colder weather many Toyota shock absorbers can stiffened, add the tyres  that goes harder too and you have very uncomfortable drive. 
You can change the harsh drive with buying a new set of tyres however very important is NOT to alter the tyre size from the original specs, you should only buy and replace tyres within manufacturer recommended sizes. If you would like to change tyre sizes you can do that but you have to change the wheels too and be within the spec again, very important not only for speed accuracy but also for car handling dynamics and general safety and performance/reliability. 
Here two websites that shows your options for tyre-wheel combo variations that are suitable your car and how they fit, any differences and how much. 
https://www.wheel-size.com/size/toyota/avensis/2017/

https://www.willtheyfit.com
 

Perhaps the easiest way to improve comfort is to just buy new quality tyres same size as yours now and maintain correct pressure. The new tyres has to be touring tyres and NOT high performance HP or ultra high performance UHP. Unfortunately in your size touring tyres are limited but they are offers from best brands Goodyear efficient grip performance or Michelin Primacy 4. 
Of you want to change sizes only with new wheels too. I have done that on my Auris, from 17” wheels went down to 16” new Oem Toyota wheels with best in class tyres Goodyear Efficient Grip Performance 2, my car drives like top German make, and better than new plus I am getting best ever fuel consumption. , all within specs and unchanged driving characteristics. Here with original silver wheels and with replacement ones in two colours.

Btw ATS offers £64 off 4 new Michelins 👍

https://www.atseuromaster.co.uk

[Mojo1010]

More size wall will increase comfort no doubt, as said above checked that it's still within speedo tolerance. It also probably need to declare to insurance. 

[Tel999]

Thanks for your input.

As the estate came with 3 good cross climates I have decided to replace the worn one and enjoy the road holding and adapt to the ride.

[JARC1]

Have just done one and a half hour journey today in my recently acquired Avensis T-Spirt 3 Gen. My other car is a Jaguar S Type. My goodness this Avensis is a rough ride with loads of interior rattles etc. The S-Type is seventeen years of age and has done 66,000 miles. Compared to the Avensis (86,000 miles) it is as if it glides. I bought the Avensis as something for a change and because I have always had preference for Japanese cars. My hay day of car owner ship was Nissan 200SX`s and Nissan Skylines. I am now seventy three years young and do appreciate some comfort when travelling/driving.

Best Wishes and Regards, John

[Cyker]

You can't seriously compare a Jag with a Toyota!!  

And if you find the Avensis rough, never ever get a Yaris!   (Esp the Mk4, these seats are so not good for my poor back!  )

[Bernard Foy]

10 minutes ago, Cyker said:

You can't seriously compare a Jag with a Toyota!!  

And if you find the Avensis rough, never ever get a Yaris!   (Esp the Mk4, these seats are so not good for my poor back!  )

I guess I’m lucky I’ve gone on long drives 3hour+ and have found the Mk4 seats comfy and supportive, thank goodness.

[Cyker]

I think yours has the nice normal seats and mine has the stupid 'Sports seats' (It's a hybrid Yaris! Why would anyone want sports seats in a hybrid yaris!?)

Then again I may also be deformed due to a lifetime in education carrying excessive amounts of weighty books on my back   

[Rhymes with Paris]

8 minutes ago, Cyker said:

You can't seriously compare a Jag with a Toyota!!  

And if you find the Avensis rough, never ever get a Yaris!   (Esp the Mk4, these seats are so not good for my poor back!  )

That old Jag S type I had certainly did have a lovely smooth ride, trouble was it going into limp mode every time you pressed the loud pedal to wake up the V8.

Well that, and dozens of sensors saying "spend a fortune on me".

In comparison the Yaris is bit bumpy, but runs like a clockwork mouse,a fairly powerful mouse though.🤞

I prefer the slightly harsher ride, and reliability.

[Rhymes with Paris]

1 minute ago, Cyker said:

I think yours has the nice normal seats and mine has the stupid 'Sports seats' (It's a hybrid Yaris! Why would anyone want sports seats in a hybrid yaris!?)

Then again I may also be deformed due to a lifetime in education carrying excessive amounts of weighty books on my back   

😱 Still in education?

I got the impression that you had left school long ago.

Are the other boys jealous of your Yaris?

[TonyHSD]

19 hours ago, Cyker said:

I think yours has the nice normal seats and mine has the stupid 'Sports seats' (It's a hybrid Yaris! Why would anyone want sports seats in a hybrid yaris!?)

Then again I may also be deformed due to a lifetime in education carrying excessive amounts of weighty books on my back   

Toyota sport seats in recent cars are more comfortable and supportive than their standard versions when driving the car , they are only not as good as standard ones when seating in or out and if you want to have a quick nap , because of the large and hard side bolsters. 
Avensis models 2003 -> all of them have harsh ride because of the shock absorbers. The oem absorbers are on the harder side and also in low temperatures they become stiff plus the tyres which in most Avensises in uk will be summer ones that gets hated as plastic in temperature below 10C° , the combination is very uncomfortable drive. Most of the previous Toyota models are like that up to 2016 , I can’t say anything for the ones afterwards as I have not master them of yet.

The only option owners have is improving by changing the tyres ( sizes) to more suitable one as I did on my Auris, but then when changing again to something else you will notice immediately a huge difference.
Saying all that the best and most comfortable tyres are Goodyear efficient grip performance 2, no other brand or model come close to these for smoothness, low noise, and vibration dampening. You can see Toyota pick these tyres for some of their new cars like Yaris Cross for example. 

[JARC1]

5 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Toyota sport seats in recent cars are more comfortable and supportive than their standard versions when driving the car , they are only not as good as standard ones when seating in or out and if you want to have a quick nap , because of the large and hard side bolsters. 
Avensis models 2003 -> all of them have harsh ride because of the shock absorbers. The oem absorbers are on the harder side and also in low temperatures they become stiff plus the tyres which in most Avensises in uk will be summer ones that gets hated as plastic in temperature below 10C° , the combination is very uncomfortable drive. Most of the previous Toyota models are like that up to 2016 , I can’t say anything for the ones afterwards as I have not master them of yet.

The only option owners have is improving by changing the tyres ( sizes) to more suitable one as I did on my Auris, but then when changing again to something else you will notice immediately a huge difference.
Saying all that the best and most comfortable tyres are Goodyear efficient grip performance 2, no other brand or model come close to these for smoothness, low noise, and vibration dampening. You can see Toyota pick these tyres for some of their new cars like Yaris Cross for example. 

Tony

Besides the good advice on tyres, do you have any recommendation regards the shock absorbers. You say the OEM model are on the harder side, so wonder if you know of a better specification or replacement model.

Many thanks and Regards, John

[larry305]

Hey guys. Just joined this evening. Just bought a 2013 Auris excel hybrid and after being pleased with it for a bit, really put off by the juddery ride. Was hoping I could find some advice on here. Better tyres? Possible to go down a wheel size from the 17 inch alloys a came with? Was wondering if same wheel size with Michelin Primacy 4 plus would improve things. Depressed at having to spend more money.

[TonyHSD]

3 hours ago, JARC1 said:

Tony

Besides the good advice on tyres, do you have any recommendation regards the shock absorbers. You say the OEM model are on the harder side, so wonder if you know of a better specification or replacement model.

Many thanks and Regards, John

Hi John, 

I haven’t tried any other shocks but what I observed as previous experience and from other users Sachs shock absorbers are slightly more comfortable and those are German brand and Germans knows how to fine tune suspensions best. However I have not done any shock changes of yet my car and I can not confirm that in 100%. 
Now for the tyres, premium brand touring tyres will make the car feel better but here also it is ultra important to maintain correct and precise pressures on cold. Also winter tyres can help the most, these are the softest of all types and good winter tyres make car comfy and quiet. 
Michelin primacy 4 will help as long as it’s set at correct pressure but in cold temperatures below 7C° they also will become hard and the shocks also become harder on any car plus the suspension bushes and the results are harsh drive. 
Here my 2 cents how to deal with that: 

1. Set pressures at cold exact numbers 

2. Spray wd-40 silicone spray on all suspension bushes 

3. Check if shock absorbers work correctly - park the car at incline road, apply parking brake, select N and release foot brake, the car should move slightly forward and your rear should dive down a bit. If the car did not react like that means you have seized shocks and this will be an issue. Also to check if your shocks work fine you can do that when driving slowly over speed bumps with open windows you should hear a ss-ss sound from both front and rear, if not and hard means your shocks are most likely rock hard. Because shocks can seize too and make the car very uncomfortable. 
If all rest ok the it’s from the tyres. 

[JARC1]

15 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Hi John, 

I haven’t tried any other shocks but what I observed as previous experience and from other users Sachs shock absorbers are slightly more comfortable and those are German brand and Germans knows how to fine tune suspensions best. However I have not done any shock changes of yet my car and I can not confirm that in 100%. 
Now for the tyres, premium brand touring tyres will make the car feel better but here also it is ultra important to maintain correct and precise pressures on cold. Also winter tyres can help the most, these are the softest of all types and good winter tyres make car comfy and quiet. 
Michelin primacy 4 will help as long as it’s set at correct pressure but in cold temperatures below 7C° they also will become hard and the shocks also become harder on any car plus the suspension bushes and the results are harsh drive. 
Here my 2 cents how to deal with that: 

1. Set pressures at cold exact numbers 

2. Spray wd-40 silicone spray on all suspension bushes 

3. Check if shock absorbers work correctly - park the car at incline road, apply parking brake, select N and release foot brake, the car should move slightly forward and your rear should dive down a bit. If the car did not react like that means you have seized shocks and this will be an issue. Also to check if your shocks work fine you can do that when driving slowly over speed bumps with open windows you should hear a ss-ss sound from both front and rear, if not and hard means your shocks are most likely rock hard. Because shocks can seize too and make the car very uncomfortable. 
If all rest ok the it’s from the tyres. 

Tony

Many thanks for reply.

I am very conscientious regarding regular tyre pressure checks and always done cold (as advised in Manual 35 psi Front and 34 psi Rear).

Oddly enough I bought WD - 40 Silicone spray yesterday. Not used it yet, but will.

I have no reason to suspect that there is anything wrong with the Shock Absorbers as they appear to do there job when driving and when tested stationary they always appear to behave as they should.

Beginning to feel it is me being over zealous about the ride of this car, as I also have a Jaguar S-Type which rides virtually anything and every thing like a dream, in fact it glides.

Best Wishes and Regards, John 

[Cyker]

On 12/2/2022 at 1:53 PM, TonyHSD said:

Toyota sport seats in recent cars are more comfortable and supportive than their standard versions when driving the car , they are only not as good as standard ones when seating in or out and if you want to have a quick nap , because of the large and hard side bolsters. 

They do give good side bolster support (I assume this is what makes them 'sporty'), but are definitely the least comfortable seats I've had of all the Yarisusesieues I've owned.

The problem is partly because of the much lower seating position compared to previous models - In those you step into the seat, but this you sort of fall into it. The others had a more upright higher seat, almost like a van, whereas this is canted slightly back, due to the low roof-line, and the seat has zero lumbar support which, combined with the canted seating position, puts a lot more strain on the lower back than in previous cars. The towel has helped a lot tho'!  

 

 

[larry305]

Put on all season tyres today and it largely sorted the harsh ride issue. Of course all seasons are a trade off but I can live with that if I've got some comfort.

[TonyHSD]

Any tyre on any car older than 2-3 years will become harder in cold temperatures below 10C° especially the summer ones will loose comfort and traction. To compensate for that you can reduce a bit the tyre pressures, just a tiny bit but even so the harder old rubber will alway be less comfy than a new one. All season tyres are not always the more comfortable ones but in many cases they are more comfortable than summer particularly at low temperatures like now. There is one more thing about comfort when cold, the shocks become harder too and the rubber bushes on suspension and more harshness can be felt through the whole car. Some cars and particularly more premium german brands are less prone to these temperature changes as they have more advanced suspension but those are expensive to maintain., where Toyota cars are made simple and reliable. 👍

[NeilMH]

I echo a lot of what Tony has said here. I recently bought a Skoda Rapid (still keeping my two 30 year old Toyotas) and immediately switched to smaller wheels with higher profile tyres. I also switched from Bridgestone to Goodyear Efficient Grip as my previous experience with these was good (I find them very "feelsome" plus I'm obsessed with ride quality. As a generalisation I find the ride quality on modern cars to be harsh compared to my old Corollas. I imagine the main issue is that all the underside components have to be beefed up to handle the additional weight - my old Corollas are very light in comparison - but of course I have hardly any of the modern safety features or equipment 😱. If you then mate the high weight of later cars to large wheels and low profile tyres plus the poor quality of many roads (near us anyway) you have the perfect recipe for surgery 🤣 My old 2CV had it cracked but was somewhat lacking in the momentum department.

[larry305]

On 1/17/2023 at 4:22 PM, TonyHSD said:

Any tyre on any car older than 2-3 years will become harder in cold temperatures below 10C° especially the summer ones will loose comfort and traction. To compensate for that you can reduce a bit the tyre pressures, just a tiny bit but even so the harder old rubber will alway be less comfy than a new one. 

All true observations I'm sure. The tyre upgrade (or downgrade as they were premium summer tyres the ones I replaced) transformed the ride to the point where the car has become a pleasure to drive. Not only that, I did not have to run them underinflated to improve ride comfort. They were Nexen n 4 blue seasons and not terribly expensive. Happy because I was so put off by the harsh ride I'd considered selling the car. She's a keeper now though.