Picking up car

[Rosgoe]

All vehicles that have a historic vehicle tax class are exempt from the ULEZ. This tax class excludes any vehicle used commercially (for example, coffee vans or street food vans).

[Rhymes with Paris]

5 hours ago, Bob66 said:

This is evident and plainly obvious dad .....so what's your point?

Dad ?I didn't realise that we were all related here cousin Bubba.

[JARC1]

1

[JARC1]

5 hours ago, Bob66 said:

This is evident and plainly obvious dad .....so what's your point?

Forgot to mention manners.

Regards, John

[anchorman]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

Don't believe it - This isn't about emissions or pollution: It's about money.

The reason he's pushing so hard for the 2nd extension is because there is a massive hole in his finances and he sees motorists as the golden goose. The original extension to the A406 didn't bring in anywhere near the amount of revenue required because, despite his attempts to not publicise it, we managed to alert everyone through word of mouth and the majority were able to swap the diesels - that HIS party convinced them to buy in the first place! - to more compliant cars, despite getting no scrappage or other assistance that the inner London ULEZ residents got.

Instead of being happy about this - After all, if the number of fines (And they are fines) their wretched cameras have been able to issue are so low, surely that means that the level of pollution is better because everyone is driving lower polluting cars?

No no no he says, the pollution is EVEN WORSE and we must MUST extend the zone EVEN FURTHER  to stop ALL THIS TOXIC AIR WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN AND BABY ANIMALS ignore the fleet of diesel 4x4s we flounce about in and all the diesel busses and taxis we're still licensing.

By swallowing the BS about it being about pollution you're giving that scumbag the moral high-ground to impose even more onerous charges carte blanche.

The next part of his plan is either per-mile charging, or charging vehicles to enter London. Probably both. For *all* vehicles. Still think it's about emissions?

Stop buying into his BS. This is all just a thinly veiled way to gouge money out of motorists, like all the inappropriate CPZs, LTNs, 20 zones etc.

The worst thing is he has trumped up figures to show increased emissions, but really they've not increased, they're just more concentrated *because of what they have done*!!! It is these idiot schemes forcing traffic into fewer and fewer roads that is increasing traffic, congestion and emissions in those specific places.

Cars are most efficient and least polluting when they are free-flowing, not then they are crawling at 5mph or stationary, but they've done everything they can to make traffic worse - Blocked off streets, changed signal timings to slow traffic flow, removed lanes from busy roads and turned them into cycle lanes that cyclists don't even use, removed bus laybys so buses have to stop *in the middle* of busy roads with no way for following traffic to go around them safely, creating more jams.

If they really wanted to reduce emissions, they could do it by optimizing traffic flow and undoing a lot of these restrictions and blockages - That would reduce journey times and congestion which would in turn reduce the time cars are on the road producing emissions in the first place.

But that wouldn't generate revenue.

 

Just reading between the lines then, you not keen on the illustrious Mayor then Cyker?

[anchorman]

52 minutes ago, Rosgoe said:

All vehicles that have a historic vehicle tax class are exempt from the ULEZ. This tax class excludes any vehicle used commercially (for example, coffee vans or street food vans).

Get out of that Cyker!!! 🤣

[Rhymes with Paris]

Of course like Cyker says it's always the money,or revenue as gubments like to call it.

Consider smoking,if the health of the nation was the genuine concern, then HMG would ban the sale of tobacco products, instead of allowing them, and taxing them heavily.

Same thing with fossil fuel, the UK and most other developed countries manufacturing base has shifted to China, with its unrestricted and cheap coal fired power stations .

I am not sure that the eco warriors and just stop oil brigade (using non eco friendly glue) would enjoy too much,a totalitarian communist government which incarcerates dissidents without trial .

 

[anchorman]

1 hour ago, Bob66 said:

I don't really understand as to why you would mention income...the rich elite would love to have the roads to themselves.

I didn’t , you did.  I said if you can’t afford a new compliant vehicle, don’t drive.  That might be people you consider well off.  Its not all bad though because the money taken from fees in my hypothetical situation could be used for renewable energy solutions.   I wouldn’t bother yourself, they think more of not upsetting snowflakes than avoiding 2.5.  I’ll be long gone when these hard done to young people are enduring drought, typhoons and tidal waves.

[Rhymes with Paris]

1 hour ago, Bob66 said:

I don't really understand as to why you would mention income...the rich elite would love to have the roads to themselves.

Well I am far from rich or elite, and am on a low income, around a third of what is considered an average wage now.

But yes, I would like to have the roads to myself, absolutely sick to the back teeth of sitting behind bi polar bears in their Range Rovers in traffic jams.

Smug gits, they come here just because an iceberg has melted a bit, and think they have the higher moral ground .

They want to try it in the real world mate, and mix it up down the hood.

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, anchorman said:

Just reading between the lines then, you not keen on the illustrious Mayor then Cyker?

I must confess he wouldn't have been my first choice to rule over us... 

(Although to be honest I don't think any of the others are much better... Why is it only psychopaths seem to be candidates for positions of power?? I'm so disillusioned with politics I'd honestly give Count Binface a chance at this point...!)

 

1 hour ago, anchorman said:

Get out of that Cyker!!! 🤣

Challenge accepted!  

But seriously, there are a lot of cars I consider classics - Old Imprezas, XR3i's, Lotus Carltons, RS Cosworths, GTRs etc. which wouldn't covered by that.

Also, I believe to qualify for the historic tax the car has to be completely unmodified, and I have read about some owners falling foul of this as parts for their classic car were no longer available and the replacement was deemed a modification. (TBH the rules about what counts as a historic car seem a bit more nebulous than I used to think; There's a lot more to it than it just needing to be over 40 years old it seems!  )

There is a lot of concern in the general car community that a lot of perfectly good cars are going to be scrapped by Londoners trying to avoid the ULEZ, as on paper they are basically worthless due to age and mileage, but still well maintained and functioning perfectly.

It's also going to trigger another hike in used car prices which is just what we need right now...!

Maybe catlover should have held onto his hybrids a bit longer as they'd likely be worth even more when this goes ahead!!  

[anchorman]

48 minutes ago, Cyker said:

I must confess he wouldn't have been my first choice to rule over us... 

(Although to be honest I don't think any of the others are much better... Why is it only psychopaths seem to be candidates for positions of power?? I'm so disillusioned with politics I'd honestly give Count Binface a chance at this point...!)

 

Challenge accepted!  

But seriously, there are a lot of cars I consider classics - Old Imprezas, XR3i's, Lotus Carltons, RS Cosworths, GTRs etc. which wouldn't covered by that.

Also, I believe to qualify for the historic tax the car has to be completely unmodified, and I have read about some owners falling foul of this as parts for their classic car were no longer available and the replacement was deemed a modification. (TBH the rules about what counts as a historic car seem a bit more nebulous than I used to think; There's a lot more to it than it just needing to be over 40 years old it seems!  )

There is a lot of concern in the general car community that a lot of perfectly good cars are going to be scrapped by Londoners trying to avoid the ULEZ, as on paper they are basically worthless due to age and mileage, but still well maintained and functioning perfectly.

It's also going to trigger another hike in used car prices which is just what we need right now...!

Maybe catlover should have held onto his hybrids a bit longer as they'd likely be worth even more when this goes ahead!!  

Who’s Count Binface?

[Cyker]

One of the Mayor candidates - Sortof the Mayoral equivalent of the Monster Raving Loonie Party  

But I should probably shut up as frosty will be along soon with his  electro prod!

*squints* What was the topic? *whisper whisper* Picking up *cars*? I prefer women myself but each to their own

 

[WALLOP]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

Don't believe it - This isn't about emissions or pollution: It's about money.

The reason he's pushing so hard for the 2nd extension is because there is a massive hole in his finances and he sees motorists as the golden goose. The original extension to the A406 didn't bring in anywhere near the amount of revenue required because, despite his attempts to not publicise it, we managed to alert everyone through word of mouth and the majority were able to swap the diesels - that HIS party convinced them to buy in the first place! - to more compliant cars, despite getting no scrappage or other assistance that the inner London ULEZ residents got.

Instead of being happy about this - After all, if the number of fines (And they are fines) their wretched cameras have been able to issue are so low, surely that means that the level of pollution is better because everyone is driving lower polluting cars?

No no no he says, the pollution is EVEN WORSE and we must MUST extend the zone EVEN FURTHER  to stop ALL THIS TOXIC AIR WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN AND BABY ANIMALS ignore the fleet of diesel 4x4s we flounce about in and all the diesel busses and taxis we're still licensing.

By swallowing the BS about it being about pollution you're giving that scumbag the moral high-ground to impose even more onerous charges carte blanche.

The next part of his plan is either per-mile charging, or charging vehicles to enter London. Probably both. For *all* vehicles. Still think it's about emissions?

Stop buying into his BS. This is all just a thinly veiled way to gouge money out of motorists, like all the inappropriate CPZs, LTNs, 20 zones etc.

The worst thing is he has trumped up figures to show increased emissions, but really they've not increased, they're just more concentrated *because of what they have done*!!! It is these idiot schemes forcing traffic into fewer and fewer roads that is increasing traffic, congestion and emissions in those specific places.

Cars are most efficient and least polluting when they are free-flowing, not then they are crawling at 5mph or stationary, but they've done everything they can to make traffic worse - Blocked off streets, changed signal timings to slow traffic flow, removed lanes from busy roads and turned them into cycle lanes that cyclists don't even use, removed bus laybys so buses have to stop *in the middle* of busy roads with no way for following traffic to go around them safely, creating more jams.

If they really wanted to reduce emissions, they could do it by optimizing traffic flow and undoing a lot of these restrictions and blockages - That would reduce journey times and congestion which would in turn reduce the time cars are on the road producing emissions in the first place.

But that wouldn't generate revenue.

 

Cyker i think you have hit the nail on the head, i couldn't agree more. I luckily don't live in london but if i did this daily taxing/fining of motorists would lead me to move elsewhere.

[Jimota]

My son has ordered a Yaris with a delivery time around April 2023.  However, there is a possible new job opportunity for him in central London which would mean relocating.  He’s just realised that in addition to the sky high housing property costs he would also be liable for the ULEZ charge.  His calculator is working overtime at the moment but if he’s successful he might have to cancel his order.

[Cyker]

Err, no? If he's getting a new Yaris it WON'T be liable for the ULEZ.

That's the whole reason I got my Mk4!!

So it's a win-win! He gets an awesome car, and KHAAAN! gets nothing  

The ULEZ mainly affects really old petrol cars (Pre Euro4, so like, pre-2000s mainly), and the diesels the Labour party told us to buy back in the day. (Only the latest ones are exempt - Euro6 so I think 2015-ish onwards?)

If it's actually in Central London there is a Congestion Charge tho', which is separate from the ULEZ charge. (I know right?)

But TBH you'd have to be insane to drive in actual central London - There's nowhere to park unless you are rich, and it's one of the worst anxiety, rage and frustration inducing places to navigate by road. I reckon driving in Central London lowers your life expectancy more than the pollution does!  

 

[Jimota]

Ah, I didn’t realise that Cyker.  I thought only electric cars were exempt.  I’ll pass the good news to my son but the thought of driving through London does not appeal to him.  Thanks again.

[Cyker]

Don't blame him TBH, just driving in London is generally horrible, but Central London is like it's own special level of hell.

If he is actually in Central then TBH it's not worth owning a car - Public transport is pretty decent as long as you aren't in a rush (If you are, bicycle or scooter are the only real options!). It's not that cheap - I think a monthly bus pass is up to £80-90 compared to the £35 I paid in my student days! - but it's a lot cheaper than rural busses.

That said, if he does and survives with his sanity intact he'll be a better driver for it!  

Not many people can parallel park with the speed and precision of a  hardened central london driver (Otherwise some other git will have nicked the space!  )

 

[Jimota]

Yes, he would be working bang in the centre of London. Obviously he still has to pass an interview but I think he would prefer to use use public transport. For the moment, he will keep his car order open and see how things develop.

Cheers

[Cyker]

If he doesn't mind doing some scalping he should buy it then sell it on for a profit - Hybrids are selling for stupid money here thanks to the ULEZ, and the 2nd extension will likely cause another surge in prices!

[Jimota]

A used Yaris Cross Design model with no additional extras was on offer in a local dealership for £28500.   My  new Cross which is the exact same model with a few little extras cost just over £26000.

[MikeSh]

3 hours ago, WALLOP said:

but if i did this daily taxing/fining of motorists would lead me to move elsewhere.

So the system works then ... 

[Mojo1010]

If he gets the job and live in central London - (zone 1) then no need for a car and driving is difficult.  There is a resident discount for living within the zone, but there no need for a car. As well there may be no parking where he may reside. 

Only able to use the car for the days off is difficult to justify the running cost, only he can decide. Though cancelling the order will mean losing the 500 deposit. 

[Yugguy1970]

If I lived in central London I'd probably not own a car but use someone like this https://www.zipcar.com/en-gb/car-hire-london

[Cyker]

TBH renting a car to drive in Central is even less worth it; The fees will get you a lot of bus and tube journeys! The best thing to rent is one of the Boris-bikes; They're been upgraded to e-bikes so are even easier to ride for lazy gits like me  

Driving in Central is just needless stress and just paints a target on you saying "Levy as many made-up fees and charges on me as you want London!" I'd not recommend it to anyone if they can help it!

I am waiting to see what happens with e-scooters as they are increasingly the most favoured way to get somewhere quickly, but are technically illegal and the government are conspicuously silent on the matter. They're currently defacto 'okay' as the Police are just ignoring them unless you ride like a complete smeg pot, which to be fair is how things should work!

 

[Max_Headroom]

At my age i don't think i would fancy riding a scooter they have quite small wheels so i guess thy could easily get stuck in potholes etc, what about something like this -