Nice balanced RAV4 review

[Cyker]

Been liking this guy's reviews; Doesn't spend half the review pawing at the dash talking about scratchy plastics or criticising the non-existant cones and rubber bands in the eCVT system like a lot of other reviewers , but gives useful information on how it drives etc.

 

 

[forkingabout]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

 criticising the non-existant cones and rubber bands in the eCVT system like a lot of other reviewers

 

Before I bought my Toyota hybrid I watched a lot of video reviews & soon as that fact was mentioned by a reviewer I would just stop watching.

How can you believe anything the reviewer tells you if they cant get basic information correct.

[TonyHSD]

Thanks, 

I watched earlier. I like that guy, he is a good teacher and reviewer. He may change his high mileage Seat to a Toyota hybrid as learner car, just watch. 😉👍

[Mojo1010]

Yeah it surprised me he has taken so long to consider going into auto, obviously Toyota is a top choice. 

As good as the rav 4 hybrid is, it's a no go due to the CAN bus theft. 

[Strangely Brown]

2 hours ago, Mojo1010 said:

As good as the rav 4 hybrid is, it's a no go due to the CAN bus theft. 

Is that really a good reason to rule it out entirely? Yes, it's annoying that it can be taken so easily, but it is exceptionally rare compared to the theft of other cars, and even then it can be prevented with a physical steering wheel lock. IMO, the advantages outweigh the negatives.

I purchased mine with some reservations and thought that if I keep it for a year I won't have lost much at all. After a couple months living with it, and confirmation bias aside, I am reasonably confident that it's a keeper. I like it a lot more than I thought I would and it's still growing on me.

Re: the video review...

I agree with pretty much everything in it and I do like his presentation style. It would have been nice to see a figure at the end for overall fuel consumption but hey... the final figure shown is not far off what most will experience.

[Mojo1010]

Not in the market for a rav 4 size car, if I were it's 100% reason for not to get one. No way I want hassle of a steering wheel lock, for current owners like yourself yes get one. There are other car makes which doesn't have this problem. 

I live in greater London, it's the epicentre of theft and all sorts. 

 

[mobi]

I am currently trying to choose between RAV4 and Kia Sportage. Both are good cars. What bugs me about RAV4:

1. No lumbar support or electric seat adjustment below Excel trim. Sportage offers it at lower trims.
2. No paddle shifters at any trim! Sportage offers this in all but lowest trim level.
3. The dashboard and infotainment screens in RAV4 look like 1990s design!

I note that RAV4 does offer manual shifting using shifter in S mode. But I am yet to see any reviewer demonstrate it. My current car has paddle shifters and I often use it. 

Both Sportage and RAV4 have waiting lists. So at the end I may decide based on which dealer offers me a good price. 
 

[Hybrid21]

I wouldn't worry about paddle shifters M, I had them on my Volvo and rarely used them as I soon found that it's auto box was impressive.

As you say the RAV4 has manual intervention if required, again I tried it initially, but now just let the CVT do it's thing.

If you want to "drive" the car I would go for a good manual gearbox 😄

 

[Cyker]

I do think the Koreans are Toyota's biggest competition as they tend to operate in the same market areas (i.e. customers wanting something solid and reliable but less bothered about quality and gropey plastics or gimmicks), but 'get' what customers are after better than Toyota. Toyota still have the edge in reliability tho' and have the superior hybrid drivetrain IMHO.

 

[ernieb]

I had the paddles in the Subaru XV but not in the RAV PHEV. I don’t find I miss them and the select mode (S) works effectively if needed. Frankly. I just drive the car and it does  the job effortlessly. In the S mode the car is intelligent enough not to let you do anything stupid but I really don’t see the point for the vast majority of the time.

[mobi]

I think paddle shifters have love hate relationship with many. I do use my paddle shifters frequently. I simply can't fathom whether I'd miss them if I don't have them. Its odd that Toyota offers them in other countries (seen in YouTube videos) but not in UK!

Yes, one can shift lever to S mode and then use + or - to manually override, but operating paddles with fingers is much faster (and fun).

I think Koreans have now caught up with the Japanese on reliabily front. Kia's 7 yr warranty is at par with Toyota's 10 years, and I think I'd get bored with a car in 7 years time anyway. Where Koreans are excelling is the features department. Even in Kia Niro, which is tad smaller than RAV4, feels lot nicer place to be.

Latest Niro HEVs (and maybe Sportage too) have a feature when driver can select whether to keep the ICE running all the time or let the car choose when to run it. This is something Toyota doesn't offer, here the car always chooses when to turn the engine on. 

RAV4 has a fixed CHG/ECO/PWR type meter, which is same as Niro/Sportage but when user chooses Sport mode in Kia, a true digital rev counter appears at the same spot showing the ICE rev. Paddle shifters in Kia works to control regen braking in HEV mode and shift gears in Sport (ICE on) mode. This feels like 2-in-1 car. 
 

[Yugguy1970]

Had paddle shifters in my last 2 cars before the Rav.  Even in the quite quick Focus stlx I never bothered with them.

Guess it depends on what you want from a car. 

You're right about Kia and it just shows how cars are bought for status.  All the fomos round my way are in Jaguar Suvs, massively unreliable.

[TonyHSD]

Paddle shifters on electric or hybrid cars are gimmicks and no need for those. If you like cars that shift through gears best to avoid any Toyota hybrids, or full ev. Anything else will be more suitable. 👍

[Mojo1010]

Agree with Korean cars catching up very quickly with toyota. If I was in the market for a rav4 size, it would be the Kia Sportage hybrid. The interior displays are very nice 2x 12.3" digital. 

[Strangely Brown]

I am clearly missing something here.

What is the point of wanting or having paddle shifters in a car that has no gears. There is nothing to shift and the eCVT will always use the most efficient ratio anyway.

 

[forkingabout]

11 minutes ago, Strangely Brown said:

I am clearly missing something here.

What is the point of wanting or having paddle shifters in a car that has no gears. There is nothing to shift and the eCVT will always use the most efficient ratio anyway.

 

It's to help attract new buyers who would normally buy a vehicle from other manufacturers.

 

[Flatcoat]

3 hours ago, mobi said:

I am currently trying to choose between RAV4 and Kia Sportage. Both are good cars. What bugs me about RAV4:

1. No lumbar support or electric seat adjustment below Excel trim. Sportage offers it at lower trims.
2. No paddle shifters at any trim! Sportage offers this in all but lowest trim level.
3. The dashboard and infotainment screens in RAV4 look like 1990s design!

I note that RAV4 does offer manual shifting using shifter in S mode. But I am yet to see any reviewer demonstrate it. My current car has paddle shifters and I often use it. 

Both Sportage and RAV4 have waiting lists. So at the end I may decide based on which dealer offers me a good price. 
 

Having gone through a similar evaluation last year we plumped for the RAV for a number of reasons: Toyotas long experience building hybrids, perception of more solid build and interior, much better real world mileage in EV mode and cold weather performance of the PHEV (from watching a Czech version of Top Gear winter evaluation), probably more reliable, higher tow limit of PHEV. Downside of the RAV is rubbish infotainment set up and lack of 360 camera on the PHEV. 

[Strangely Brown]

14 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

Downside of the RAV is rubbish infotainment set up...

I keep reading that and, at least initially, it did make me think about whether a RAV4 was right for me. Now that I have one I really don't see what all the fuss is about. If I have any complaint about the infotainment system at all it is that there is only one USB with a data connection. I would like to be able to plug in an iPod permanently and still have the data port available for CarPlay from the phone.

Otherwise, it seems to do everything that I want and looks to be pretty well thought out. I guess its relative merits (or otherwise) are more subjective than I thought.

[Cyker]

The paddles is because people are stupid - Toyota only put them on their CVTs because of customer (Or more likely, press) complaints about the engine revs not following speed, and even made them simulate gear shifts, which negates the whole efficiency advantage of CVTs, unless you're driving super gently.

Hyundai/Kia had the first and only legitimate use of paddles on an EV that I know of on the Kona/Niro - They controlled the regen level, which I thought was genius as you can 'downshift' with the paddles to simulate downshifting to slow down faster like using gears to engine brake, or 'upshift' to increase coasting, and they are right there so you can do it on-demand instantly; Much better than e.g. Tesla where you have to go through a load of menus to change the regen.

As for the reliability, they had the long 7 year warranty first to try and build confidence in their reliability, but I find Kias (and Hyundais) are still more prone to stupid niggly problems than Toyotas; Just recently my brother's i30's passenger door just stopped working for no apparent reason and we're not sure if a cable or something has snapped or the actuator has actually failed. Either way, we can't open the door as it turns out the latch was electronically controlled and there apparently isn't a physical one??

 

[Strangely Brown]

Using 'S' mode to control the regen level on a very long descent is the only legitimate use that I can think of. Unfortunately, Sussex is deficient in that department so I would get to use it very infrequently. Still, that lack of big hills is all the better for the overall fuel economy. 🙂

[ColinB]

47 minutes ago, Strangely Brown said:

Using 'S' mode to control the regen level on a very long descent is the only legitimate use that I can think of. Unfortunately, Sussex is deficient in that department so I would get to use it very infrequently. Still, that lack of big hills is all the better for the overall fuel economy. 🙂

The only time that I've used the S mode is using it for "engine braking" down step hills in Cornwall. I did find that when the Battery is full it actually starts the ICE to use that as the brake, rather than the generator.

[Yugguy1970]

I don't get all the negative press for the Toyota media system.  

Yes it doesn't look like Google like the Ford one does but there isn't anything it doesn't do that I need, or have anything missing that I want.

[Cyker]

It is a bit dated by current standards, but it depends what you want out of it. For me less is more; I don't like how much crap they've shoved into the head unit on other marques (The ones in a lot of german cars are basically unusable while moving and without an encyclopaedic guide!)

However it's an easy area for auto journalists to pick on (While they're groping up the plastics) since it's easier to talk about flashy shiny screens than actually know anything useful about the car being reviewed.

I just need something that can play music, I don't need to play games or have a bazillion different controls buried in menus for things that should have dedicated buttons.

IMHO it's too much of a distraction in a lot of cars and I tend to agree with Mazda's philosophy that everything should help the driver drive and minimize distraction for things that have nothing to do with driving.

 

[forkingabout]

As someone that owned a Peugeot 308 T9 for 4 years, I grew to hate touchscreens having nearly all the major functions run through it.

One reason I bought a Toyota was the touch infotainment system does basically just that & there are psychical buttons for various vehicle functions.

 

[ernieb]

It's dated for sure but I do like the physical buttons and Android Auto works pretty perfectly for me unlike other car head units I've owned. Yesterday set a route, stopped taking the phone with me, back into the car and after plugging the phone back in the route resumed as if we had not stopped. I could never get this to work reliably on other cars.

Any problems I've had are fixed by a long press on the on/off button, quick reboot and it's working 100%. On other makes I've been back and forward to garages trying to get advertised functions to work and never managed to get them working correctly, as usual with audio, navigation  tech etc., the punter often knows more about what's going on than the trained garage tech!

I think the Toyota Head Unit is a step or two away for the latest and greatest but like the rest of the car will probably be working long after the warranty has expired.