Nice balanced RAV4 review

[nlee]

15 hours ago, mobi said:

RAV4 has a fixed CHG/ECO/PWR type meter, which is same as Niro/Sportage but when user chooses Sport mode in Kia, a true digital rev counter appears at the same spot showing the ICE rev.

Struggling to see the value of a rev counter in an e-CVT in any mode. Maybe I'm missing something?

[Strangely Brown]

15 hours ago, mobi said:

I think paddle shifters have love hate relationship with many. I do use my paddle shifters frequently. I simply can't fathom whether I'd miss them if I don't have them. Its odd that Toyota offers them in other countries (seen in YouTube videos) but not in UK!

Are you, perhaps, referring to somewhere like the USA? Over there the RAV4 is available in a non-Hybrid (Gas) variant and it has a "normal" 8-Speed automatic gearbox.

On that car the paddle shifters make sense. In the UK, on HEV/PHEV with eCVT they are somewhat pointless.

 

[Hybrid21]

49 minutes ago, nlee said:

Struggling to see the value of a rev counter in an e-CVT in any mode. Maybe I'm missing something?

I miss a rev counter Nigel as it lets you see what the ICE is actually doing rather than just listening to it.

 

[Hybrid21]

15 hours ago, Strangely Brown said:

I am clearly missing something here.

What is the point of wanting or having paddle shifters in a car that has no gears. There is nothing to shift and the eCVT will always use the most efficient ratio anyway.

 

I think paddle shifters are for the budding F1 drivers Mark. 😄

[Flatcoat]

I agree the infotainment is good insofar as still using physical buttons for some functions (heating especially). the satnav however is rubbish - lost count of how often it goes off into the wilderness and the graphics would be good - if it was circa 1980, DAB reception isn’t fantastic, reverse camera clarity is very poor/low resolution, screen and button layout is not remotely intuitive. Generally the driver ergonomics are not a RAV strength but agree the components used are probably designed to keep working for ever. 
As for paddle shifters - utterly piontless on a CVT and ditto a rev counter. When you understand the eCVT tech you understand why both are of no benefit whatsoever. 

[ernieb]

I think if the RAV had a rev counter it would sit at around 2000 rpm for most of the trip as this is what it’s designed to do. At 2K rpm it’s achieving around 41% efficiency.

[Hybrid21]

1 hour ago, Flatcoat said:

I agree the infotainment is good insofar as still using physical buttons for some functions (heating especially). the satnav however is rubbish - lost count of how often it goes off into the wilderness and the graphics would be good - if it was circa 1980, DAB reception isn’t fantastic, reverse camera clarity is very poor/low resolution, screen and button layout is not remotely intuitive. Generally the driver ergonomics are not a RAV strength but agree the components used are probably designed to keep working for ever. 
As for paddle shifters - utterly piontless on a CVT and ditto a rev counter. When you understand the eCVT tech you understand why both are of no benefit whatsoever. 

I'm reasonably happy with my JBL infotainment system, sound from radio, etc adequate for me, and I do find the 360 degree camera really useful when parking and reversing.

I disagree Adrian that a rev counter is pointless,  as it's good to know engine revs no matter what speed or conditions, even in an eCVT 👍

[Hybrid21]

44 minutes ago, ernieb said:

I think if the RAV had a rev counter it would sit at around 2000 rpm for most of the trip as this is what it’s designed to do. At 2K rpm it’s achieving around 41% efficiency.

It would be nice to actually know Ernie 😄

[philip42h]

45 minutes ago, Hybrid21 said:

It would be nice to actually know Ernie 😄

True, it would undoubtedly be nice to know ... but what on earth are would you be planning to do with that knowledge? 😉

[Ancient Nerd]

13 hours ago, forkingabout said:

One reason I bought a Toyota was the touch infotainment system does basically just that & there are psychical buttons for various vehicle functions.

 

Love the psychic controls. If only...

[TonyHSD]

Paddle shifters, now a rev counter? - These are non sense in Toyota hybrids.

Corolla has rev counter and it’s most off putting thing that the car has along with the low roof line and almost lack of leg room on rear seat , which btw are the most comfortable of all latest Toyota models🫢

Toyota design team either work on stupid orders or really don’t know what to do to create a more balanced combination of sport plus every day use. 
Paddle shifters or rev counter , those are only to help the driver select optimal gear for best performance or efficiency in any other automatic transmission but not in Toyota hybrids. Even though the car computer will be better left do the things itself, it’s like trying to beat the ABS, not possible. 
For shifters it’s the same, it’s a false sense of control. If you would like full or part control of your car and engine best option is to buy and drive manual car with ice, Yaris GR4 or Supra, or GR86. 

[Iain_M]

18 hours ago, Strangely Brown said:

I keep reading that and, at least initially, it did make me think about whether a RAV4 was right for me. Now that I have one I really don't see what all the fuss is about. If I have any complaint about the infotainment system at all it is that there is only one USB with a data connection. I would like to be able to plug in an iPod permanently and still have the data port available for CarPlay from the phone.

Otherwise, it seems to do everything that I want and looks to be pretty well thought out. I guess its relative merits (or otherwise) are more subjective than I thought.

I used to have a permanently plugged in IPOD in my Tiguan. However, I now have a mobile phone with a 128GB memory card in it so all of the music I had on the IPoD is now on the phones memory card with lots of memory to spare. When I connect the phone through the data connection and enable android auto, all of the music is available through the VLC software on the phone. So IMHO, if this can be setup with your phone then having an outdated IPOD permanently connected seems a waste of space to me. I don't think Apple are even making them anymore and it was a complete pain trying to get music onto the IPOD whereas getting music onto the memory card is dead easy.

[mobi]

Whether paddle shifters/rev counters are useful or not depends on users' perspective. If a feature is available, user can choose whether to use it or not. If not available, then user has no choice - some may move to competitor brands.

For example, my car has speed limiter which I never used. But some people do use it. For me it is pointless feature.

The eCVT is a misleading name as it is not CVT. There is a pinned thread in this forum whether this is explained in detail with several videos. In eCVT, the engine and motors turn in different directions via planetary gear sets to produce different road speeds. 

In that context, it is indeed somewhat pointless to show engine revs, because unlike an ICE car, the road speed won't vary with engine RPM (in same gear). Using same logic, manually shifting gears in S mode is also bit of pointless - yet Toyota offers this. Toyota wants to simulate normal driving in hybrid cars so that drivers from other cars feel comfortable in driving a hybrid Toyota. Gear shifting is typically associated with spirited driving, for which RAV4, is not often famous for. Yes, you can argue one should not buy a RAV4 for spirited driving, but most people can't afford have another car for just spirited driving - they want same car to offer different types of excitements.
 
Being able to see what engine is doing is a nice feature - somewhat more useful than CHG/ECO/PWR gauge IMHO. 

Having said that, lack of paddle shifters is not a deal breaker. At least RAV4 offers this via S mode. 

I am more peeved about Toyota not offering electric/lumber seat in trims below Excel. They should have offered this at least in Design trim. 
 

[Strangely Brown]

1 hour ago, mobi said:

The eCVT is a misleading name as it is not CVT. There is a pinned thread in this forum whether this is explained in detail with several videos. In eCVT, the engine and motors turn in different directions via planetary gear sets to produce different road speeds. 
 

I am going to have to take issue with that...

eCVT is exactly what it is and the initialism is not misleading in least. It is a Constantly Variable Transmission, but using electric motors instead of bands and cones. In fact, the linked video to which you point describes the CVT operation of the transmission and (at 18 mins) calls it exactly that. CVT.

What else would you call it if not exactly what it is?

[Yugguy1970]

I find the chg/eco/pwr gauge very useful in a hybrid.  I know that if I keep it within Eco I can maximise the Ev range.  Or stop the ice starting when I'm just shuffling.  The pwr section is enough of a rev counter as you need.

[Bper]

IMO I think it was a balanced review and this guy covers many aspects that other car reviewers do not. If I was looking to buy this particular vehicle it would certainly help with the overall positive comments him gave.👍

 

[Hybrid21]

5 hours ago, philip42h said:

True, it would undoubtedly be nice to know ... but what on earth are would you be planning to do with that knowledge? 😉

In basic terms it's interesting to know what rpm your engine is running at for instance 70mph.

My last car ran at 1800rpm at 70mph, it was a very quiet vehicle compared to my RAV4.

Maybe I'm just a bit of a geek Philip 😄

[Strangely Brown]

14 minutes ago, Hybrid21 said:

In basic terms it's interesting to know what rpm your engine is running at for instance 70mph.

My last car ran at 1800rpm at 70mph, it was a very quiet vehicle compared to my RAV4.

Maybe I'm just a bit of a geek Philip 😄

The answer to that is, "It depends..."

The engine RPM is not directly linked to the roadspeed like a conventional gearbox. At 70mph the rpm will depend on how much power is being called for and that will depend on whether you are travelling uphill, downhill, or level. It will also depend on whether you are accelerating, constant speed or decelerating.

In short, it depends... and knowing the figure will not actually tell you anything particularly useful.

Suffice to say that at 70mph, if the engine running, it will likely be somewhere between 1700 and 3200 rpm in order to keep the BTE at or around 39.8.

I have no doubt someone will correct that if wrong.

[Strangely Brown]

4 hours ago, Iain_M said:

I used to have a permanently plugged in IPOD in my Tiguan. However, I now have a mobile phone with a 128GB memory card in it so all of the music I had on the IPoD is now on the phones memory card with lots of memory to spare. When I connect the phone through the data connection and enable android auto, all of the music is available through the VLC software on the phone. So IMHO, if this can be setup with your phone then having an outdated IPOD permanently connected seems a waste of space to me. I don't think Apple are even making them anymore and it was a complete pain trying to get music onto the IPOD whereas getting music onto the memory card is dead easy.

I don't use Andriod so not an option. Of course, I could just plug the phone in and use it as an iPod if I don't want the CarPlay functionality, or I could use BT Streaming. I would prefer to have an "iPod" music source permanently available without the hassle of plug-in every time or the Battery drain of BT streaming.
 

You are right that the iPod is discontinued now but I still have one in each car and updating them is as easy now as it has always been. music collection and playlists are managed in the music app (formerly iTunes) and then just sync'd with each device.

I could, I suppose, get a small (physically) USB stick and leave it plugged in the data port util such times as I need it for CarPlay. So many solutions.

Anyway, it's academic really as I find myself listening to DAB radio more these days.

[Cyker]

I'm not opposed to paddles as long as they do something useful, and overriding the CVT for arbitrary faked ratios is not something I consider 'useful'.

I still think using them to control regen level is a smart idea and one that could be extended to hybrids, but they are really a solution looking for a problem on cars without discreet gears.

 

My Mk4 tends to favour the 2000-ish rpm band too; I guess that's where it is most efficient. I still find it quite funny that I could be doing 20mph or 70mph and the engine will still be doing 2000rpm  

It only goes above that when I'm not just cruising but accelerating or climbing a hill. I still haven't quite gotten it in my head to link the engine rpm with power demand instead of speed, but that's a lot of ingrained sense to get over!

[TonyHSD]

In Toyota hybrids you can control regenerative braking with the cc buttons too, if you wish to do so. Just keep reducing the speed. But again, what is the point to do something with your hands when can be done with the feet. Btw best settings of regenerative braking are the lowest ones and if need extra regenerative braking just press the brake pedal. These settings can make smoother drive, more relaxed and also extend the range in real world., keeping the car free rolling is the best for energy efficiency. 👍

[nlee]

I note the Yaris doesn't have a S +/-, it just has a B. This is in effect the same as putting into S and dropping down 1 or 2 notches, increasing the regen and "engine breaking". It's all you need really (in my opinion anyway). Interestingly, it advises only occasional use when going down a steep hill and prolonged use isn't recommended.

[mobi]

This one of best demonstrations of RAV4 transmission. It is a short video and comparatively easier to comprehend compared with other videos on this topic.

 

[Strangely Brown]

Interesting video.
Personally, I found the WeberAuto explanation with the dismantled transmission easier to understand.

[Flatcoat]

27 minutes ago, nlee said:

, increasing the regen and "engine breaking". .

Is that regenerating the broken engine…..? 😉