15 Minutes of Pain

[Hybrid21]

Chris Rea knew what he was talking about when he wrote The Road to Hell over 30 years ago 😃

I enjoy driving and owning a car as much as anyone, but you only have to look around you to see that things need to change.

One solution may be to greatly increase the cost of ownership and running costs so that people would think twice before buying another new car ?

[Stivino]

5 minutes ago, Hybrid21 said:

The Road to Hell

I seem to recall that that song is about the M25

[DerekHa]

I came across this article this morning on the Beeb reference to all the talk of 15 minute neighborhoods.

Have to admit there seems a lot of B.S. being spread around on this subject and how some want to portray the motives behind it. It's going to far when death threats and the like are being made!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-64001776

[Cyker]

The funny thing is it will have the opposite effect from what the scaremongers want; The people will be like oh it wasn't as bad as I thought and accept it.

It really sucks as our rights are being slowly eroded year after year, just little things at a time, and I feel like we're the proverbial frog being slowly brought to a boil so we don't notice.

5 hours ago, Hybrid21 said:

Chris Rea knew what he was talking about when he wrote The Road to Hell over 30 years ago 😃

I enjoy driving and owning a car as much as anyone, but you only have to look around you to see that things need to change.

One solution may be to greatly increase the cost of ownership and running costs so that people would think twice before buying another new car ?

Be careful what you wish for; I fear that is where we are headed - Only the rich, the powerful, the privileged, will be allowed to own and operate private vehicles.

That's why I like to just hoon around sometimes; I'm going to enjoy being able to drive freely while I still can!

 

[forkingabout]

6 hours ago, Hybrid21 said:

Chris Rea knew what he was talking about when he wrote The Road to Hell over 30 years ago 😃

 

[Bper]

4 hours ago, DerekHa said:

I came across this article this morning on the Beeb reference to all the talk of 15 minute neighborhoods.

Have to admit there seems a lot of B.S. being spread around on this subject and how some want to portray the motives behind it. It's going to far when death threats and the like are being made!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-64001776

Hi Derek,
As I pointed out in an earlier post, there will always be people for and against these policies whatever side of the political fence they sit on.

It is not acceptable that death threats are made against anyone regardless, but this subject is bound to raise people's emotions as any reports that have a hint of any lockdowns are going to scare people. Particularly after covid. The thing is, this is causing concerns as whilst this is being marketed as a trial, we know that when the council's have the opportunity to raise easy additional revenue do you really think they won't make it permanent?

Misinformation will always be generated regardless as points of view and perspectives are engaged. What is concerning is that the objections to this are being ignored by the council. 

The Oxford travel chief insisted the controversial plan would go ahead whether people liked it or not.

Another county council cabinet minister said.

People can drive freely around their own neighbourhood and can apply for a permit to drive through the filters, and into other neighbourhoods, for up to 100 days per year. This equates to an average of two days per week'.
The alternative is to drive out onto the ring road and then back in to the destination. This is from the horses mouth. Concerning to say the least.🤔
 

[Roy124]

Unintended consequences could see ring roads overloaded like the London ring road. 

Also Road mileage can increase. 

[Bper]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

The funny thing is it will have the opposite effect from what the scaremongers want; The people will be like oh it wasn't as bad as I thought and accept it.

It really sucks as our rights are being slowly eroded year after year, just little things at a time, and I feel like we're the proverbial frog being slowly brought to a boil so we don't notice.

Be careful what you wish for; I fear that is where we are headed - Only the rich, the powerful, the privileged, will be allowed to own and operate private vehicles.

That's why I like to just hoon around sometimes; I'm going to enjoy being able to drive freely while I still can!

 

“Is freedom anything else than the right to live as we wish? Nothing else."☺️

[DerekHa]

I agree that we should all have freedom to live as we wish.

Having said that we live in a country and a world where the freedoms we have are controlled by the state however you look at it. Would sooner be living here in the UK than any other place. Look at the "land of free" they're that free they have the right to buy arms designed for the modern battle field and run amock. Ok I know that it's not the same for all states. It's a matter what's appropriate given the circumstances. It's not that long ago that the UK's firearms laws were less stringent than now but at least something gets done when events happen.

Thing with limiting how and where we can drive is inevitable given the fact our world is in trouble. Something is going to have to give! Unlikely any of us here will see the real results. I think about my grandson and what will his world be if nothing is done because the monied, the denier's and conspiracy pushers have their way?

There's already constraints on us all in cities that have ULEZ zones and the like but they're there for good reason, we just have to learn to live with and work around them, ok so we will have to walk more and even take the bike, I've already got one but not inclined to use in this weather I confess.

The way some of this "15 min nieghbourhood" has been put across isn't how it will work. People with deep pockets will always be able to afford doing their own thing regardless. Think the reality of how things will be in the future won't be  as bad as some will have us believe.

As for the ring road thing, if you live in Redditch it's been like that for many many years you can't travel easily across the town from one area to another without having to use the main artial roads and inner ring road. That town wasn't designed to do that, and that's going back to what the 1970's. I don't like it but it's how the town road system was designed. We all cope.

[Bper]

On 12/18/2022 at 7:28 PM, DerekHa said:

I agree that we should all have freedom to live as we wish.

Having said that we live in a country and a world where the freedoms we have are controlled by the state however you look at it. Would sooner be living here in the UK than any other place. Look at the "land of free" they're that free they have the right to buy arms designed for the modern battle field and run amock. Ok I know that it's not the same for all states. It's a matter what's appropriate given the circumstances. It's not that long ago that the UK's firearms laws were less stringent than now but at least something gets done when events happen.

Thing with limiting how and where we can drive is inevitable given the fact our world is in trouble. Something is going to have to give! Unlikely any of us here will see the real results. I think about my grandson and what will his world be if nothing is done because the monied, the denier's and conspiracy pushers have their way?

There's already constraints on us all in cities that have ULEZ zones and the like but they're there for good reason, we just have to learn to live with and work around them, ok so we will have to walk more and even take the bike, I've already got one but not inclined to use in this weather I confess.

The way some of this "15 min nieghbourhood" has been put across isn't how it will work. People with deep pockets will always be able to afford doing their own thing regardless. Think the reality of how things will be in the future won't be  as bad as some will have us believe.

As for the ring road thing, if you live in Redditch it's been like that for many many years you can't travel easily across the town from one area to another without having to use the main artial roads and inner ring road. That town wasn't designed to do that, and that's going back to what the 1970's. I don't like it but it's how the town road system was designed. We all cope.

I'm not sure how this will get resolved without a great deal of frustration and anger from both sides who will agree and disagree with this policy.

The climate change side will see this as a the right thing to do to reduce pollution and carbon footprint etc. The other side will argue that it is another restriction on our civil liberties and yet another burden on motorists  etc. No doubt time will tell.

[Markyswan]

That Sadiq Khan bloke is running for Mayor again and I don't think a lot of Londoners are to happy according to my brother who lives in London.

[Cyker]

You say that but he somehow got voted in again last time which is why we're stuck with him until at least 2024. Emboldened him to gouge us for even more money...

It really has been vote for your dictator; Once he got in power he's just done whatever he liked, ignoring what the citizens want, and the damage he's causing, in his single-minded drive to make money, and he's just getting away with it because apparently  it turns out he has no oversight - Apparently even Parliament can't interfere with his plans!

 

[YarisHybrid2016]

Don't comply, and don't pay the fines!! Totalitarianism only works if you participate in their BS, so don't participate!!

[Bper]

Well Spain is now introducing low energy, emission zones in 150 cities and for many they will not be allowed to drive if there diesel vehicles are registered before 2006. A sticker system will be introduced and those with no sticker will not be allowed to enter cities. 

They will have to take a tram or bus. Those that live in the cities will be forced to sell and buy newer cars which is probably the worst time due to cost of living crisis. Also they will have to sell cars at a considerable loss as they will be virtually worthless.

No doubt this may eventually lead to Neighbourhood to Neighbourhood driving bans as well.🤬

[Bper]

20 hours ago, YarisHybrid2016 said:

Don't comply, and don't pay the fines!! Totalitarianism only works if you participate in their BS, so don't participate!!

Discussions regarding not paying and not complying to totalitarian governments would be very effective if people did actually do what they say. The problem is people don't. And the minority that do get fined despite protests of common law, and strawman etc.

[Bper]

Tomorrow Saturday there will be a demonstration in Harringay London against the implementation of the low traffic neighbourhoods part of the 15 minute city agenda by local councils.
Other parts of the country will also be organising demonstrations soon. Despite opposition and consultation with the residents within these areas the council's are ignoring the people and going ahead with these schemes anyway. 

It is being seen as nothing more then another additional revenue raising scheme  by the local authority's . However these are and will have significant impact on drivers and residents within these area's. 
 

[Bper]

Well the 15 minute plan is all over the media now and is a reality. it will go ahead despite all the opposition. It's coming to a town near you so be warned.🤬

[Bper]

Has anyone noticed how many councils are now looking to adopt the 15 minute cities plan. Watch how may new camara's will start to go up in your area.🤬

[Bper]

This idea of 15 minute cities is gathering momentum in so many towns and cities now. The local councils are trying to sell this by the back door by saying that implementation is just exploratory. 

A town near us, Thetford in Norfolk and its residents are in uproar over any possibility of a 15 minute city. If this is left unchallenged, they will be implemented. The people have have the power to change this.

[Roy124]

The 15 minute plan worked well for us 70 years ago.  Across the road we had a bank, chemist, newsagent, sweet shop, off licence, green grocers, chemist, bicycle shop, haberdashery and a Coop. 

A few minutes walk a fish and chip shop, petshop.  A 10 minute bus trip would take you to the centre and a train station.

There were other shops a 10 minute walk away. 

THAT MODEL disappeared years ago. No longer do people have the time to shop twice a day or more. 

[Bper]

26 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

The 15 minute plan worked well for us 70 years ago.  Across the road we had a bank, chemist, newsagent, sweet shop, off licence, green grocers, chemist, bicycle shop, haberdashery and a Coop. 

A few minutes walk a fish and chip shop, petshop.  A 10 minute bus trip would take you to the centre and a train station.

There were other shops a 10 minute walk away. 

THAT MODEL disappeared years ago. No longer do people have the time to shop twice a day or more. 

Hi Roy, We remember how local shops were and you didn't have to travel very far to any of them unfortunately for many towns that has long been confined to the past.

Oxfordshire County Council, which is run by Labour, the Liberal Democrats and the Green Party, wants to divide the city of Oxford into six ‘15 minute’ districts. In these districts, it is said, most household essentials will be accessible by a quarter-of-an-hour walk or bike ride, and so residents will have no need for a car.

On the surface, these 15-minute neigbourhoods might sound pleasant and convenient. But there is a coercive edge. The council plans to cut car use and traffic congestion by placing strict rules on car journeys. Under the new proposals, if any of Oxford’s 150,000 residents drives outside of their designated district more than 100 days a year, he or she could be fined £70.

The whole concept will not just curtail people's freedom but essentially bring huge financial burdens on the residents of these towns and cities. Many of the council's have been operating with millions of pounds deficit and who is going to pay for this?😠

[tfc]

Looks like they want to cut  commute times down , if you work in a certain city you also have to live there,  no need for a car, walk or use public transport or get yourself a push iron, coming to you in the near future. 🙄

[Bper]

On 4/7/2023 at 3:36 PM, tfc said:

Looks like they want to cut  commute times down , if you work in a certain city you also have to live there,  no need for a car, walk or use public transport or get yourself a push iron, coming to you in the near future. 🙄

Hi John,

As one example of the many that will have a inpact on residents, cutting commute times along with less cars in the city will leave a massive hole in government revenue that they receive from car tax. Councils are making huge income from driving fines along with parking ,ULEZ etc. The only way to fill these holes in government and council finances will be to increase taxation and council tax and additional burden on local residents and businesses.

[Gerg]

This a view on LTNs from New Civil Engineer magazine from late April '23:

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/the-low-traffic-neighbourhood-debate-rumbles-on-so-how-do-we-as-engineers-influence-the-discussion-21-04-2023/

 

[Bper]

 

The article does focus on the positive aspects of the carbon neutral and green agenda and a better planet.Take a look at the previous schemes Annabel Precious has been involved in over the years. Of course this article will paint a positive spin on 15 minute cities, they have a vested interest to promote this if you sit on the side of the carbon neutral agenda.

However in my opinion, I do not believe anyone in this country would not want a cleaner and healthier environment but not at any cost to both taxpayers and motorists.

This constant one sided 2030 and 2050 green agenda is being pushed by MSM and MPs on both sides of the political parties. But no discussions or alternative evidence is being allowed to be put forward except in the alternative media which obviously cannot reach the general population. Eminent climate scientists for many years have refuted the government's claims on climate change.

A recent video made to test the air quality on both central London streets and the London underground clearly showed evidence that the air quality on the streets was well below the parts per million levels recommended for safe air quality. This was also tested in London offices and showed the same result as the street tests.

However, the air quality on the London underground was considerably higher than the maximum safe parts per million level and this was put to travellers on the tube who had no idea the levels are so high.

It seems ironic that the London Mayor, who loves to bang on about the poor air quality on the London city streets 'caused by traffic pollution', fails to mention the effects of the air quality under his control of the underground trains and stations. He will not enter into any debate on climate change or listen to any objections to his ULEZ plans.

He is obviously arrogant enough to think he will win the upcoming court cases on the legitimacy of the ULEZ and has pushed ahead with his plans regardless. So much for a democratic society

These various schemes from 15 minute cities, ULEZ, congestion charging, pay per mile, ULNS etc., are not for the benefit of the public, they are another revenue source and will lead to restrictions, additional costs and fines for both residents and motorists who live, work and visit within these areas.

All of these schemes have had huge opposition from the public but despite this they have still introduced these measures.100 councils have signed up to the 15 minute cities without question.

Why is there never MSM debate between both government and climate scientists on all sides and all evidence put to the public for us to decide if it's a benefit to ourselves or not. If the government has absolute proof then they would  have done this a long time ago and not used the media to shut down every debate that goes against the 2030 and 2050 agenda.

This was also the same during the pandemic. No opposition or debate to lockdowns, it's effectiveness or the impact it would have on the people and economy was allowed

Why are the Government afraid to debate any of these issues? are they not supposed to be there to do the bidding of the people of this country?

Democracy has slowly been eroded from society and if it is allowed to continue we will end up living in a country that will be under Totalitarian rule.