Damp and slow heater.

[Pumatron]

The temperature has dropped somewhat of late, and the Yaris (2022-Dynamic), doesn’t get an awful lot of use.

It is parked on the north side of the house so gets very little sun, this combined with a few runs in the rain with four people and wet clothes/shoes/coats etc has left the car smelling like a sweaty sock.

I found a little bit of mould on the back seat and after having a similar thing happen on a 2020 VW Polo which ultimately turned out to be a horrendous water leak in the drivers footwell, I did some careful checking under carpet’s for water.

Thankfully no water has been found anywhere in the car after an extensive search.

On running the car on the drive a huge amount of water accumulated on the windscreen which seems to be evaporation of moisture in the cabin, using the A/C to do its job and over an hour of running has purged the interior.

I have bought some condensation traps in the form of the microwaveable beads in pouches and also some cat interior enzymes cleaner, and have placed and used them on the interior.

This has appeared to of helped the interior immensely so far, even in low temperatures we currently.

I think though the heater has quite a poor output and the Hybrid technology limits the amount of heat that the heater produces, it seems to take hours of driving before the cabin feels really hot.
I don’t think there is anything particularly wrong with it, but compared to my Aygo X which produces heat within a few minutes of running, I think I will need to be mindful of the fact that it will take longer to dry out if the interior gets wet from use in rain etc.
Does anyone else with long term hybrid experience notice the longer heat up times? Is this normal behaviour?

[TonyHSD]

Hi, 

the hybrids heat up quicker than any other type ice cars.
However the hvac settings if not correct according to the season may cause exactly these events that you have experienced.  
If the car is used on short trips only it is a good idea to keep in ready mode as much as you can and to keep hvac set at 22C°  , speed fan minimum 2 or in auto , and blow towards windscreen and feet. Also a good practice to lower windows a bit while car dehumidifies itself to allow any moisture to escape. Do not use recirculating mode, make sure always air intake from outside. You can try auto mode or set manually with or without ac. 
I drive a lot and spent 12 hours a day in my car and during winter season never use AC. I only use heating in manual mode with the following settings: 

cabin temperature set at 22C°

Air intake from outside 

air flow towards windscreen and feet

speed fan 2 

AC off

the car is hot and bone dry always. When is vet wet and rainy it does steam up when engine is off but clears off nicely once the engine is on and running.  I also use these for when engine is off to catch any moisture while car is parked. They work really well. ANSIO Dehumidifier Condensation Remover Moisture Absorber Dehumidifiers for Damp, Mould, Moisture in Home, Kitchen, Wardrobe, Bedroom, Caravan, Office, Garage, Bathroom, Basement (Pack of 5) https://amzn.eu/d/djLwQWw

[RobertR]

That's strange to me, Tony, you didn't use AC at all, I use AC all the time. In summer to be nice and cool and in winter to dehumid the cabin. Prolonging pause of AC system can also make some damage to the system. I recommend to everybody just let AC run all the time in auto and now, the cars are full of sensors, the AC system knows what is the best for the most comfort, you just set the temp. Yes, there are cases when you need to blow air into the windshield but that's not a standard situation and Cars have dedicated buttons for these cases, but other than that, let in AUTO.

 

And for the Pumatron problem, you you do good when you put some moisture absorbent into the car. You can check for some silica gel absorbents, they can be bought in nice big packing (1kg or more) and they can be dry( "recharge" ) in the oven..

[TonyHSD]

One reason why many cars had locked moisture inside the cabin is exactly that leaving in auto the hvac system. Although they are smart indeed often they are not as good as experienced driver can be and correct heater settings can prevent damp and moisture. AC no need to be ON during winter , ac in conventional cars work always at 3% capacity, no risk of system failure., in Toyota hybrids electric compressor is run at those 3% from time to time. Drying seals and gas leaks are simply a myth. Another thing is that ac compressor in cars is located in engine bay and it’s not protected against frost therefore car ac does not turns on when outside temperature is below 4C° even if been turned on by the driver and the green light illuminates to indelicate working ac. However after some drive the temperature in engine bay rises and the ac will turn on itself, this is often happening by the end of the journey and as a result the cabin gets more moisture then help prevent it. Toyota latest cars has an auto climate control same as first Audi A4 from 1994 , so nothing new here., and they all work very similar. Even with manual settings the system is still automatically controlled for temperature and purification of the air even with ac off. I had studied and monitored these systems for a long time and I know how they work , with or without ac , in auto or manual mode they are always automated but also requires some drivers input and to be correct one. Switch off fan, low temperature settings, recirculating mode , no windows opening all that adds to the moisture problems. 

[Cyker]

I do think the new Yaris engine does struggle to generate heat as, like yours, mine takes a while to output any noticeable heat.

I have loads of silica gel packs I've looted from equipment boxes over the years that I just leave under the seats and in the boot and that seems to have staved off the internal condensation; That plus free and regular use of the AC!

The AC is especially important as I'm usually running the system in recirculate so I don't have to breath in diesel bus fumes (KHAAAAN!) and the car will rapidly steam up without the AC to remove the moisture; Even in summer a haze will start to form on the windscreen if I'm not using the AC! (It's better now that I've wiped off all the new car smell off-gassing plastic chemicals that deposited themselves on the windscreen tho')

 

[RobertR]

17 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

One reason why many cars had locked moisture inside the cabin is exactly that leaving in auto the hvac system.

My whole life I used AC on AUTO and never had a problem with moisture inside the cabin 🙂 ( not even when I parked on wet grass, close to the threes...car was soaking wet every evening and morning outside but never inside, because of driving daily and using AC.

You will have problems (like Pumatron) when your car sucks moist air during the day and that moisture will condense on the cold part inside the car (windshield, inside metal parts) during the sunset/sunrise. It has nothing to do with using the AC. If he drove the car and rise temp and de-hummed with ac daily, it will be ok, but when parked during winter with lots of rain and high humidity, the moisture will collect inside the car.

At least, this is my experience with cars, but I'm living in mild weather and someone can have a different experience. When I switch off AC during cool days or during rain(especially in the first 20 min of the ride), the inside will immediately start to fog, so no need to tell me I'm using AC for nothing.

[anchorman]

1 hour ago, RobertR said:

My whole life I used AC on AUTO and never had a problem with moisture inside the cabin 🙂 ( not even when I parked on wet grass, close to the threes...car was soaking wet every evening and morning outside but never inside, because of driving daily and using AC.

You will have problems (like Pumatron) when your car sucks moist air during the day and that moisture will condense on the cold part inside the car (windshield, inside metal parts) during the sunset/sunrise. It has nothing to do with using the AC. If he drove the car and rise temp and de-hummed with ac daily, it will be ok, but when parked during winter with lots of rain and high humidity, the moisture will collect inside the car.

At least, this is my experience with cars, but I'm living in mild weather and someone can have a different experience. When I switch off AC during cool days or during rain(especially in the first 20 min of the ride), the inside will immediately start to fog, so no need to tell me I'm using AC for nothing.

Absolutely.  What is the point of having a climate control system then overriding it?   I also don’t accept that outside interference can be quicker and in any case the air distribution is also automated and stepless.   I never get dampness and I never get steamed up windows.   I’m sensitive to warm up times because I feel the cold but I’ve made sure to get the model with heated seats and steering wheel.  

[TonyHSD]

The op had a question and share problems with his car. Explaining the situation and circumstances around can help him solve his problems and learn something new about the car hvac and how it’s working. Having automatic climate control still requires correct settings as we can see here and in many more posts. Select Auto and forget is not always enough to maintain dry and warm cabin. Overriding climate control, well the point is personal preferences and what works for some may not work for others. Knowing what , how and when to use ac or auto is the best and making the correct settings will help solve the problems. 👍

[Pumatron]

Thank you for the suggestions and comments.

I have to say, we probably don’t really need two cars, at one point we had three cars, and trying to rotate and use them all was stupid.

Unfortunately (or fortunately!) one was written off, so we have two cars now.

The Aygo X is a good allrounder for my use but doesn’t cut the mustard when all four need to go to visit family etc, which is really the only reason we have the Yaris.

The Aygo X is parked in a public car park when I am at work, and I’m okay with that but wouldn’t want to leave the Yaris in this car park, hence why I have the two cars.

I did have an EV for 18 months, and the heater in that was amazing (if you excused the huge reduction in range that brought along with Battery conditioning needed), the heat was almost instant though and I could get nice and toasty on my short commute to work.

Unfortunately I couldn’t justify keeping the EV when electric bills started to climb, combined with the crazy used values that I was being offered for it.

I bailed on it just before Truss and Co ruined things and basically paid myself £1500 after all costs for the use of it over 18 months. (Prices have now crashed by over £7k since I sold it, which is absolutely frightening!) and so the Aygo X replaced the EV.

We do keep discussing on selling the Yaris, but know as soon as it’s gone we would need it for a long journey somewhere, so I think it’s going to have to be keep doing what I’m doing and play with the heater to find the best settings, as it’s been said each person has different settings that work for them.

Once spring is here again the problem will go away for a few seasons. A North facing drive is great for washing and polishing a car in the summer sun, and also for getting into a cooler car during the summer, but the sweaty sock issue is the payback during winter!

 

[anchorman]

5 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

The op had a question and share problems with his car. Explaining the situation and circumstances around can help him solve his problems and learn something new about the car hvac and how it’s working. Having automatic climate control still requires correct settings as we can see here and in many more posts. Select Auto and forget is not always enough to maintain dry and warm cabin. Overriding climate control, well the point is personal preferences and what works for some may not work for others. Knowing what , how and when to use ac or auto is the best and making the correct settings will help solve the problems. 👍

I've got absolutely no doubt that you intend to help the OP but it is quite wrong to suggest that moisture is locked in because the climate control is left on auto.  If anything, the air conditioning side removes moisture before it enters the cabin so it should ease the situation.  Additionally the notion that an experienced hand is better than the basic auto setting is ludicrous.  I’ve been in the development offices of many vehicle manufacturers and they don’t just stab at getting things right.  Toyota have got a huge department (split over several sites) that is solely focused on HVAC and they go into it in great detail - they are experts on the subject.  I will attach a 2010 document that I still have that goes into this business of “neural network” which is the study of how the body reacts to different climates and they can build it into the “auto” switch with one click.  Your “experienced” hands are subject to hot and cold - you feel hot under certain conditions and cool in others.  These systems take that out and accurately measure them.  They hold back airflow in the warm up phase because they know they can’t deliver heat.  They automatically and steplessly change air distribution and by using outside and inside temperature by accurately measuring them and knowing what effect it will have on temperature and humidity.  You think you can outwit it, well you can’t - it’s a science.  My subject was brakes (hence the handle) and I used to smile at posts regarding red stuff and green stuff and whatever other fancy overpriced product people were getting scammed over - and in many cases were absolutely convinced they were superior!!!.  The fact is that if these products were nowhere near good enough for OE and they wouldn’t get in the door at Toyota because before these very talented people would even entertain them, they had to prove themselves in all aspects of development and testing.  I can 100% assure you that the “Auto” setting is programmed by engineers that don’t do conjecture and supposition and within the limits of the hardware (compared to say a Lexus), you cannot beat it.  You might think you can but you can’t.

m_be_0051.pdf

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, Pumatron said:

Thank you for the suggestions and comments.

I have to say, we probably don’t really need two cars, at one point we had three cars, and trying to rotate and use them all was stupid.

Unfortunately (or fortunately!) one was written off, so we have two cars now.

The Aygo X is a good allrounder for my use but doesn’t cut the mustard when all four need to go to visit family etc, which is really the only reason we have the Yaris.

The Aygo X is parked in a public car park when I am at work, and I’m okay with that but wouldn’t want to leave the Yaris in this car park, hence why I have the two cars.

I did have an EV for 18 months, and the heater in that was amazing (if you excused the huge reduction in range that brought along with battery conditioning needed), the heat was almost instant though and I could get nice and toasty on my short commute to work.

Unfortunately I couldn’t justify keeping the EV when electric bills started to climb, combined with the crazy used values that I was being offered for it.

I bailed on it just before Truss and Co ruined things and basically paid myself £1500 after all costs for the use of it over 18 months. (Prices have now crashed by over £7k since I sold it, which is absolutely frightening!) and so the Aygo X replaced the EV.

We do keep discussing on selling the Yaris, but know as soon as it’s gone we would need it for a long journey somewhere, so I think it’s going to have to be keep doing what I’m doing and play with the heater to find the best settings, as it’s been said each person has different settings that work for them.

Once spring is here again the problem will go away for a few seasons. A North facing drive is great for washing and polishing a car in the summer sun, and also for getting into a cooler car during the summer, but the sweaty sock issue is the payback during winter!

 

TBH if it comes to it I suspect the Aygo X is fine for long journeys.

It won't be as efficient as the Yaris but close enough I would imagine.

I know it won't haul as well as the Yaris - That hybrid drive train is a wonder - but once you get the Aygo moving it should be able to cruise fairly well; I'm forever being overtaken by Aygos burning past me at 70+mph on the motorway  

The 3-pot in the Aygo has proven to be pretty robust and reliable so don't be afraid to work it! Plus if the new one is anything like the original one it gets smoother the higher it revs...  

 

[RedToyota]

Just a thought

 

Another poster, early November, was complaining of a leak in his YC tailgate.  

It turned out that drain plugs, used during transport, had not been removed during PDI.

 

I had noticed the rear screen fogging up a lot, when parked, and found that the tailgate plugs had not been removed on mine. Car has been a lot better since removing them.  Worth a check.

 

[Pumatron]

39 minutes ago, RedToyota said:

Just a thought

 

Another poster, early November, was complaining of a leak in his YC tailgate.  

It turned out that drain plugs, used during transport, had not been removed during PDI.

 

I had noticed the rear screen fogging up a lot, when parked, and found that the tailgate plugs had not been removed on mine. Car has been a lot better since removing them.  Worth a check.

 

Yes, that’s a great shout, I’ll take a look. 
👍

[RobertR]

My plugs in the honda civic have a little flap that was work as the escape place for the water when collect inside the door. So will be nice to check if they are not similar in design, if they block the holes completely, then they better be removed, or ask your dealer or service center if it's manufacturing false.

[TonyHSD]

11 hours ago, Cyker said:

TBH if it comes to it I suspect the Aygo X is fine for long journeys.

It won't be as efficient as the Yaris but close enough I would imagine.

I know it won't haul as well as the Yaris - That hybrid drive train is a wonder - but once you get the Aygo moving it should be able to cruise fairly well; I'm forever being overtaken by Aygos burning past me at 70+mph on the motorway  

The 3-pot in the Aygo has proven to be pretty robust and reliable so don't be afraid to work it! Plus if the new one is anything like the original one it gets smoother the higher it revs...  

 

Indeed 👍 

I thought the Yaris like yours are the fastest Toyota on the motorways in uk but I was wrong, actually it’s the Aygo 🏎 that are flying at high speeds 😂

Every night been overtaken by fast Aygo’s .  

[TonyHSD]

No doubt the auto system works great , we had been discussing before.
I agree with you Anchorman and Toyota engineering team however I have my point why even so advanced system need correct settings for the season and why ac on while cold can add extra moisture after initial help reducing it. 

This event happens when the ac is turned on by the auto settings of the hvac at the end of the journey, once the engine bay has reached more suitable temperatures, then shortly after the car is parked and switched off. Since the ac was working the ac core is icy cold and it’s located in close proximity to the heater core inside the dashboard. And  now we have two metal bodies with very different temperatures, one is hot and the other is cold , the results are condensation and water which in ideal situation will be drained outside the car via drainage pipe located under the passenger footwell.
What happens next , because the air ducts system is open the air continues to enter the cabin via the air ducts starting from under the wipers , through pollen filter and goes pass these two bodies with different temperature and the moisture and water already formed, the air becomes very humid and forms moisture onto the windscreen. If the ac was not active at all, it’s core would have been not as cold and with similar temperature to the heater core, less humid environment. Basically the ac is helping you first to dry the cabin and then adds more moisture. Add the fact that auto mode can and it will switch between recirculating and air intake from outside, this will add more trouble to the condensation problem. 

Another thing owners of brand new cars to pay attention is the windscreen and dashboard.  On new cars dashboard can emit some gases from the plastics plus the screen itself may do the same if not properly cleaned with alcohol on pdi.
I can recommend to  use Dettol antibacterial cleaner on microfibre cloth and wipe clean properly the dashboard and entire interior. Then use specialty window cleaner , or alcohol to clean thoroughly the windscreen and rest of the windows. If that doesn’t help, you can use same dettol antibacterial spray for the windows and windscreen. This thing is a magic and kills all organic matter that sticks to the windows and cause a lots of foggy and misting on them. You can try that on your bathroom mirrors first. 👍

[anchorman]

18 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

No doubt the auto system works great , we had been discussing before.
I agree with you Anchorman and Toyota engineering team however I have my point why even so advanced system need correct settings for the season and why ac on while cold can add extra moisture after initial help reducing it. 

This event happens when the ac is turned on by the auto settings of the hvac at the end of the journey, once the engine bay has reached more suitable temperatures, then shortly after the car is parked and switched off. Since the ac was working the ac core is icy cold and it’s located in close proximity to the heater core inside the dashboard. And  now we have two metal bodies with very different temperatures, one is hot and the other is cold , the results are condensation and water which in ideal situation will be drained outside the car via drainage pipe located under the passenger footwell.
What happens next , because the air ducts system is open the air continues to enter the cabin via the air ducts starting from under the wipers , through pollen filter and goes pass these two bodies with different temperature and the moisture and water already formed, the air becomes very humid and forms moisture onto the windscreen. If the ac was not active at all, it’s core would have been not as cold and with similar temperature to the heater core, less humid environment. Basically the ac is helping you first to dry the cabin and then adds more moisture. Add the fact that auto mode can and it will switch between recirculating and air intake from outside, this will add more trouble to the condensation problem. 

Another thing owners of brand new cars to pay attention is the windscreen and dashboard.  On new cars dashboard can emit some gases from the plastics plus the screen itself may do the same if not properly cleaned with alcohol on pdi.
I can recommend to  use Dettol antibacterial cleaner on microfibre cloth and wipe clean properly the dashboard and entire interior. Then use specialty window cleaner , or alcohol to clean thoroughly the windscreen and rest of the windows. If that doesn’t help, you can use same dettol antibacterial spray for the windows and windscreen. This thing is a magic and kills all organic matter that sticks to the windows and cause a lots of foggy and misting on them. You can try that on your bathroom mirrors first. 👍

Full marks for entertainment value Tony.  I don’t know where you get this stuff from but have you thought about writing a book 😉

[TonyHSD]

8 minutes ago, anchorman said:

Full marks for entertainment value Tony.  I don’t know where you get this stuff from but have you thought about writing a book 😉

Hahah, it’s called driving, monitoring and maintaining experience 👍

 At least you enjoy reading my bs and laughing 👍 

[Max_Headroom]

Unless i am reading the manual wrong you set it as you would in all vehicles -  A/C on, temp set to hot, recirculate off, full power fan at screen.- 

 

[anchorman]

1 hour ago, Max_Headroom said:

Unless i am reading the manual wrong you set it as you would in all vehicles -  A/C on, temp set to hot, recirculate off, full power fan at screen.- 

 

What are you referring to Max?  That’s only for fast demisting the windows.  They’ll only ever mist in extraordinary conditions if the climate control is in auto.  It will preference demist during warm up then redistribute as required.  If a bunch of passengers get in dripping wet you might need rapid demist but other than that, never.  

[Max_Headroom]

I misread the post i thought the thread was about demisting the car in the morning, mods feel free to delete the post.

[anchorman]

46 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

I misread the post i thought the thread was about demisting the car in the morning, mods feel free to delete the post.

No leave it, it makes me feel human.  😂