Driving on snow and ice

[CMJToyota]

This week in West Kent we had a good dump of snow that hasn’t melted. It is a rare occurrence and isn’t worth buying winter tyres for.I looked in the manual and it mentions that if the car gets stuck in the snow turning the TRC off. Has anybody tried driving a Yaris with the system turned off and does this recommendation work? I used to live in Iceland and it was the law you had to put winter tyres on for the dark months.

[Roy124]

CMJ, yes it works. 

You can also buy socks, I saw a pair recommended at £67.  Never had to use them and not designed to run on black top. 

Not sure how they would fare on sheet ice but probably good on snow. For sheet ice you probably need chains or straps. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

In our Aygo, switching the traction control off can improve traction in deep snow.

Also see:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tips-advice/89241/how-drive-snow-top-tips

[Max_Headroom]

 

 

[Cyker]

I have to say my Mk4 is much better driving on the ice and snow with the traction control turned ON!!!

When it's off I can very easily spin one wheel, but with it on it acts like there's an LSD which helps with traction massively. I swear it is also dabbing individual brakes at times to try and stabilize the car when it shifts to one side on the ice.

It's made the car feel much more sure-footed than my previous Yarisusesises, considering it's on summer eco tyres on hard-packed snow and ice!

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

With our Aygo, ordinarily the traction control is left on all the time. However, in deep snow or slush, because the car is so light, having the traction control off and with a light right foot, does enable the tyres to obtain grip at low speed or when moving off. This is especially so when we're turning right into our cul-de-sac from the dual carriageway that runs across the road entry. It works for us.

[MikeSh]

3 hours ago, CMJToyota said:

if the car gets stuck in the snow turning the TRC off. Has anybody tried driving a Yaris with the system turned off

As above posts suggest you seem to be conflating two things. The suggestion in the manual, and elsewhere, is that if you are stuck then turning the traction control off (and being skilful with the right foot) may enable you to get going again. Once safely underway then you should turn it back on - ie. not drive with it off.

It's not a 'do it and forget it' thing.

[Eddie G]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

I have to say my Mk4 is much better driving on the ice and snow with the traction control turned ON!!!

When it's off I can very easily spin one wheel, but with it on it acts like there's an LSD which helps with traction massively. I swear it is also dabbing individual brakes at times to try and stabilize the car when it shifts to one side on the ice.

It's made the car feel much more sure-footed than my previous Yarisusesises, considering it's on summer eco tyres on hard-packed snow and ice!

 

First winter with the MK4 and have found it excellent with the traction control on as well.

[TonyHSD]

Absolutely keep traction control on all the times as it helps massively with traction on slippery roads snow ice mud and wet grass or gravel. The only time when you want to turn TC off is when you got stuck (both wheels loose traction) then the car with active TC will cut off any power going to the driving wheels immediately and you won’t be able to move at all. Turn off TC and use moderately the accelerator and with wheel spinning you can get yourself out of the situation, then turn TC on again. As cyker said it uses the brakes even while you are driving to make the car more planted and easier to control. 
For winter tyres in uk not required by the law and tbh unless you live in open county side or travelling up north into the Scottish wilderness no need them. You can be ok with quality summer tyres if they are new and pressures set correctly. , max to the numbers on the door label or slightly below. Winter and all season tyres kill hybrid efficiency ans also make the cars feel a bit heavy and use more of the petrol engine., but of course provide better grip and safer driving. I always had winter tyres before and first time with summer tyres and been driving the car through the snow and ice with no problems at all, I am even surprised how good handles the harsh winter now, but tyres size, pressure and important. Low profile and wide tyres won’t be as good., all season or winter will be better. 

[Jimota]

In my experience, for what it’s worth, turning off the traction control on snowy road conditions does seem to improve things ever so slightly.  I’ve only had a short test drive of the Yaris Cross which took place in the summer and was impressed with it’s operation.  However, due to the current weather conditions, it makes me wonder how     the Yaris would cope as it has a CVT gearbox.  I’ve driven DSG automatic cars for a good number of years and it makes life interesting as you don’t have the same level of control as a manual on snow covered roads.  Anyway, the most important factors to achieve traction is what you do with your right foot in an automatic and what you do with both feet in a manual.  I live in a semi rural district in Scotland and I’ve lost count of the amount of Range Rovers and other 4 wheel drive vehicles that have ended up in ditches or crashed through fences.  Maybe these incidents occurred due to the left leg not knowing what the right leg was doing.

[PCM]

For me...

Caution and planning ahead when driving.

All Season tyres.

[Cyker]

2 hours ago, Jimota said:

In my experience, for what it’s worth, turning off the traction control on snowy road conditions does seem to improve things ever so slightly.  I’ve only had a short test drive of the Yaris Cross which took place in the summer and was impressed with it’s operation.  However, due to the current weather conditions, it makes me wonder how     the Yaris would cope as it has a CVT gearbox.  I’ve driven DSG automatic cars for a good number of years and it makes life interesting as you don’t have the same level of control as a manual on snow covered roads.  Anyway, the most important factors to achieve traction is what you do with your right foot in an automatic and what you do with both feet in a manual.  I live in a semi rural district in Scotland and I’ve lost count of the amount of Range Rovers and other 4 wheel drive vehicles that have ended up in ditches or crashed through fences.  Maybe these incidents occurred due to the left leg not knowing what the right leg was doing.

I tried driving with the TC off in a mostly-empty icy snowy carpark for a laugh and it's far worse than with it on; Back end sliding out, even when moving in a straight line, one-tyre-fire etc. so I had to steer a lot to compensate and modulate the accelerator, practically just idling to stop the wheels spinning up a lot of the time.

It freaked me out a bit as I realized how little grip I actually had, that the car was hiding from me via the TC!

With TC on, it just drives like normal, albeit bumpier because of all the lumpy ice and snow patches. I steer where I want and the car just goes there. It's almost magic how much more stable and planted the car is with it on!

 

Theoretically the CVT should be the best gearbox for driving on slippery surfaces as it is completely stepless - With single and double clutch autos the sudden drop and engagement of torque during a gear change makes it more likely to break traction. With a manual you can compensate with good smooth clutch control, but it's still easy to slip; Anyone who's gone up a hill in a manual in snow will no doubt have experienced that slip when you over do it slightly!

The hybrid system is even better - I've certainly appreciated the smooth low-speed finesse and response it has to get me moving and crawling over piled up snow etc., e.g. where you get stopped by a bump, and can just keep easing on tiny amounts of power so it *just* climbs over it, instead of overdoing it and spinning the other wheel. My Mk2 would definitely have gone full one-tyre-fire on a lot of those  

It's hard to describe, but it's like trying to slowly climb up a kerb or obnoxiously steep speed hump in a manual - To do it gently you have to put on a lot of power so you don't stall, but slip the clutch a lot to modulate the power so you have enough power to go up the kerb without going so fast you smash your rims and suspension to pieces, and also be ready to catch the brakes so the car doesn't shoot off once you get over it - balancing those forces takes a lot of skill to do without frying the clutch, but with the electric motors it is soooooo easy.

 

[Jimota]

Good explanation of the CVT hybrid system Cyker as it’s journey into the unknown for me due to my lack of experience with these vehicles.  My wife is an expert in winter driving techniques and will never lose control of the vehicle or drive it into a ditch.  At the first sight of a snowdrop falling, she looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights, locks the car and stays at home to watch the telly.  Works every time.

[MikeSh]

3 hours ago, Jimota said:

4 wheel drive vehicles that have ended up in ditches or crashed through fences

I discovered some years ago that there are people who believe that 4 wheel drive imparts some magical ability to stick to the road and so they can brake and corner on icy roads at normal speeds. Sadly for their vehicles the laws of physics aren't subject to the same belief. (Cue Scotty here if you like 🙂 )

[Cyker]

Very true - All things being equal 4WD would be better than 2WD, but there are a lot of other things that make a bigger difference.

e.g. As someone mentioned above, winter tyres on a 2WD will easily beat an 4/AWD with summer tyres on snow and ice.

34 minutes ago, Jimota said:

My wife is an expert in winter driving techniques and will never lose control of the vehicle or drive it into a ditch.  At the first sight of a snowdrop falling, she looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights, locks the car and stays at home to watch the telly.  Works every time.

She sounds like a very safe driver!  

You should see if your insurance company would note that and give you a discount!   

 

[TonyHSD]

Tyres and driving skills are everything not the drive axles. In some cases awd cars can be trickier to control or the system not helpful but cause more trouble. TC on Toyota cars works really well. I did tested again last night climbing over kerb on a snowy hill and without a TC to help this would have been mission impossible, simply because one of the driving wheels was almost in the air and lost traction. Exactly what cyker describes, and all that happens silently, no engine revs no noise , all you hear is the abs pump kind of grinding noise and the yellow light on the dash flashing for a second, that’s it job done and the car was parked. Any other car without tc would have been a drama. 👍

Here an interesting video on Toyota tc and how it works when one side wheels loose traction. 

 

[Max_Headroom]

Deleted.

 

 

[Cyker]

To be fair, 'far better' is overstating it a bit, but yeah, it does show the benefits of AWD when you have the right tyres!

 

[MikeSh]

5 hours ago, Cyker said:

4WD would be better than 2WD

The only (albeit significant) advantage of (a good) AWD is better ability to propel the vehicle. Braking and cornering are no different as they involve all wheels on both 2WD and 4WD.

Some AWD vehicles are fitted as standard with chunky footwear which does improve all three activities in appropriate conditions, but that's a function of the tyres not the 4WD.

[Jimota]

There is AWD, 4WD, winter tyres, all season tyres and snow chains/socks to assist with winter driving but poor foot and pedal action always results in loss of traction. That’s my poetic input for the evening.  

[Cyker]

Eh, I think 4/AWD does help with cornering too; Basically any point where you're trying to lay down traction on slippery surfaces it will be of some help. If you're not powering through a corner than it will have less of an effect obviously, but not all AWD systems are made equal.

@Max_Headroom - Why'd you delete your post?? 

[anchorman]

I think AWD improves handling as well.  So does just about every rally car in the world.  I do wish they’d ban these zero friction roller tests.  They’re the most un representative test possible.  

[MikeSh]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

not all AWD systems are made equal.

Hence my use of the word "good" in my post above. AWD is often just a sales leaflet tick. As you, and probably others, have inferred there is more to it than just getting power to all four corners.

And let's not forget the all-year-round hit to fuel economy of AWD. I've seen 5-15% quoted in years past. Part extra dead weight, part extra friction and rotational inertia.

[Cyker]

Nothing's for free as they say!

[anchorman]

6 hours ago, MikeSh said:

Hence my use of the word "good" in my post above. AWD is often just a sales leaflet tick. As you, and probably others, have inferred there is more to it than just getting power to all four corners.

And let's not forget the all-year-round hit to fuel economy of AWD. I've seen 5-15% quoted in years past. Part extra dead weight, part extra friction and rotational inertia.

My neighbour routinely got more than 70 (indicated) in her AWD which is the same as I got in my bog standard Yaris.  That’ll do for me.  There is an argument that under some conditions, the rear motor will lighten the load of the rear of the car.