Toyota Auris frozen screen washers ?

[Justin Smith]

Hi.

After having Fords all my driving life I bought a Toyota Auris as my wife's 14 year old Yaris has been so reliable and has still got very little rust on it !

However, in the cold weather recently I have been surprised how easily the washer jets seem to freeze up. I was using pretty concentrated washer fluid, I'd have thought it'd have need to be at least 3 degrees below for it to freeze, yet the jets seemed to freeze up at minus 1 ! They did this coming back from Kidderminster and we had to keep stopping on the motorways to throw some screen wash (which I fortunately had in the boot) over the screen as the visibility was getting worse. It was no fun I can assure you !

I shall ensure I only ever put stuff in it that is OK to minus 10 from now on, but my 2006 Focus hardly ever used to freeze up its screen wash even with minus 5 screen wash in. Is it just me who has noticed this problem with the Auris ?

I did wonder if the rubber seal over the scuttle was stopping heat from the engine getting to the jets (which are situated at the very rear of the bonnet, behind said seal) and defrosting them. So I removed it (I will replace it about March time) and it seemed to make a bit of a difference, but it still froze up last night at "only" minus 2 or 3 despite the fact I had syphoned out all the screen wash and replaced it with neat stuff supposedly OK down to minus 5......

Incidentally, is the thermometer reliable and accurate ? I'm unconvinced !

 

[APS]

You need to mix windscreen wash to at least -15º concentration. Don't bother with anything less than that. Ideally source concentrate that you can mix down to -30 or lower. That way you decide (and know) how strong it is and can adjust the mix to the current season. Unfortunately, so much of the screen wash we get here in the UK is watered down and useless as soon as there is the slightest frost.

Edit: That said, there is a reason Volvo and others put heated nozzles on their cars. 

[flash22]

You don't know what is in the tank before you add to it, it could just be weakening the mixture or there is a mix of makes of wash in the tank that don't mix

empty the tank, flush it out and use a better screen wash, bluecol, holts and Halfords premix isn't great imo

I tend to use the Autoglym concentrate with either de-ionized or filtered water and mix to my own requirements

[Bper]

There's a lot of screenwash being sold this time of year and as other posts have mentioned many are watered down and cheap. As with all these liquids it's best to spend more and get a good quality one and especially in this weather when the spray from cars is hitting the screen and the last thing you want is your view impeded for the sake of a few pounds more for a good quality one.☺️

[Justin Smith]

I agree that down to minus 10, and full concentration, appears to be required with the Auris in winter. In my previous cars I have always bought minus 5 and watered it down 50/50 between about March and September than added it neat between then (as it will takes weeks to get to full concentration in the bottle) and March. Rarely had a problem.

From now on I will syphon the bottle's contents out in mid Nov and refill with neat minus 10. Though as mentioned by someone above, it is not always easy to get minus 10. Most stuff available at supermarkets is minus 5 or even minus 3, some is even minus 2 ! How useless is that !

But this still does not explain why the Auris seems so much worse, in this respect than the Fords I have had before !

BTW, can anyone confirm that all screenwash is mixable regardless of colour ?

[TonyHSD]

Hahaha, 

before was the Battery problem now is the washer, almost everyone who uses the car these days had that problem and no matter how good concentrate been used, I never seen so cold this country before, it went to -8C° where I am. Now all back to normal . I use quality and strong mixture but it didn’t  help either. 

[Justin Smith]

13 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Hahaha, 

before was the battery problem now is the washer, almost everyone who uses the car these days had that problem and no matter how good concentrate been used, I never seen so cold this country before, it went to -8C° where I am. Now all back to normal . I use quality and strong mixture but it didn’t  help either. 

Frost on cars is weird, how many times have we been out to our car in the morning, when the forecast says it hasn't even been below zero, and there's frost on the windscreen !

What is odd is, as I said above, I bought a Toyota because my wife's Yaris has been so reliable, yet that also had a problem with the washers, pretty much the only non consumables / exhaust fault it has had. Is it just co-incidence both Toyotas had a washer problem ? ! ? I cannot remember having a washer fault on any of my other cars, though I had loads of other is

[flash22]

Air temp, and ground temp are very different by anything up to 10 degrees, stick a tin box out in it, all bets are off

 

AG screen wash specs

• Maximum dilution 1:15 -1˚C

• Optimum clean 1:9 -3˚C

• Winter * 1:4 -6˚C

• Severe winter ** 1:2 -14˚C

• Extreme winter * 1:1 -25˚C

** 1:0 + -45˚C

 

[Justin Smith]

3 minutes ago, flash22 said:

Air temp, and ground temp are very different by anything up to 10 degrees, stick a tin box out in it, all bets are off

AG screen wash specs

• Maximum dilution 1:15 -1˚C

• Optimum clean 1:9 -3˚C

• Winter * 1:4 -6˚C

• Severe winter ** 1:2 -14˚C

• Extreme winter * 1:1 -25˚C

** 1:0 + -45˚C

 

Good point, but the screen wash freezing is the car temp, and its under cover as well, albeit just the bonnet. That said, I reckon part of the problem is the pipe (along which the screen wash is pumped) runs above the insulation pad under the bonnet, i.e. it's colder (bang next to the metal bonnet and insulated from the heat of the engine). I thought about removing that pad in the winter and replacing it in the summer but I looked at the cheapo plastic fasteners holding it on and thought they'll just break if I try to remove it. So I didn't bother.

[TonyHSD]

Usually in England because of the humidity in the air anything around 4C° can set frost on the cars and some other surfaces like roads, grass etc. but been -10 -8C° it is a completely different story. Plus last week it was negative or close to 0C° through the day. One more thing, when so cold temperatures the wind chill also makes it worse., no chances to the nozzles and tubes to defrost. The washer fluid tank is located just behind the front bumper right corner, almost exposed directly to this icy cold winds. From tonight no one will have any issues as temperature rises a lot. 👍
 

[Justin Smith]

24 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Usually in England because of the humidity in the air anything around 4C° can set frost on the cars and some other surfaces like roads, grass etc. but been -10 -8C° it is a completely different story. Plus last week it was negative or close to 0C° through the day. One more thing, when so cold temperatures the wind chill also makes it worse., no chances to the nozzles and tubes to defrost. The washer fluid tank is located just behind the front bumper right corner, almost exposed directly to this icy cold winds. From tonight no one will have any issues as temperature rises a lot. 👍
 

I hadn't considered if the screenwash in the actual tank was frozen though !
Would the pump still run if it was ?

I wonder if wind chill on the bonnet makes the screenwash pipes (directly beneath it and insulated from the engine heat by the felt pad) more likely to freeze up ?

Having endured the aforementioned nightmare journey on busy motorways at night with no screenwash jets working* I think car designers should spend a bit more time thinking about the effect of cold on the screenwash system. For example, in the case of the Auris, not running the pipes on the top side of the insulated pad and also allowing a bit of the engine heat to reach the screen wash jets and possibly even to the screen wash tank itself.

* Technically was the car even road worthy ? What would the police do if they came across a car in such a state ? Would they tell them they could not drive it till the screen washers started working again ! ? !

[furtula]

Let the car warm up a bit, and the heat from the engine will thaw the liquid.

I had this happen once only, after 10 minutes, tried to spray, and it pushed a bit more liquid, removing the block in the tubes and worked fine after that.

I would not drive the car if there's a lot of semi melt snow on the road, or dirty water + a lot of traffic, meaning your windscreen will be dirty in minutes.

Otherwise, it's a perfectly driveable car, as the heat from the engine will that the liquid anyway, and you can always get a stronger mixture and add to the tank.

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, furtula said:

Let the car warm up a bit, and the heat from the engine will thaw the liquid.

I had this happen once only, after 10 minutes, tried to spray, and it pushed a bit more liquid, removing the block in the tubes and worked fine after that.

I would not drive the car if there's a lot of semi melt snow on the road, or dirty water + a lot of traffic, meaning your windscreen will be dirty in minutes.

Otherwise, it's a perfectly driveable car, as the heat from the engine will that the liquid anyway, and you can always get a stronger mixture and add to the tank.

Waiting with engine running didn’t help for me , and the car been ON for hours. The truth is that these cars are designed as any other car but the super cold we had experienced in UK last week is not common here and we all were not prepared. If we had full concentrate screen wash in , pipe and nozzles flushed we wouldn’t have that. And btw I saw a police cars also with frozen screen wash system and dirty windscreens, plus summer tyres on a patrol cars so they can’t say anything, -10C° is -10C° to all., and only those who stayed at home or those who were better prepared didn’t have trouble.

I tried warm water over the tank and the pumps started to work but no spray 

Parked the car under direct sunlight for two hours, no luck too

Pour hot water over the nozzles, no luck 

Suck out some fluid and add super concentrate, no avail 

at the end I was using spray bottle with windows cleaner for 4 days until last night when temperatures went up and everything started working again. Lesson learned, next time be better prepared. 👍😊❄️

[Justin Smith]

3 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Waiting with engine running didn’t help for me , and the car been ON for hours. The truth is that these cars are designed as any other car but the super cold we had experienced in UK last week is not common here and we all were not prepared. If we had full concentrate screen wash in , pipe and nozzles flushed we wouldn’t have that. And btw I saw a police cars also with frozen screen wash system and dirty windscreens, plus summer tyres on a patrol cars so they can’t say anything, -10C° is -10C° to all., and only those who stayed at home or those who were better prepared didn’t have trouble.

I tried warm water over the tank and the pumps started to work but no spray 

Parked the car under direct sunlight for two hours, no luck too

Pour hot water over the nozzles, no luck 

Suck out some fluid and add super concentrate, no avail 

at the end I was using spray bottle with windows cleaner for 4 days until last night when temperatures went up and everything started working again. Lesson learned, next time be better prepared. 👍😊❄️

I agree with you that I could have waited all day and I still do not think the the screenwasher would have started working. I suspect the aforementioned insulation and sealing strips may be keeping the engine heat from the screenwash system on the Auris.

>>the super cold we had experienced in UK last week<<

I don't actually think it was super cold, were we are / were it was up to 3 (sometimes 4) degrees below zero, that's not what I would call supercold. Though it has been consistently (and depressingly) cold, as in around zero - just above or just below - for a week or two.

 

[TonyHSD]

6 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

I agree with you that I could have waited all day and I still do not think the the screenwasher would have started working. I suspect the aforementioned insulation and sealing strips may be keeping the engine heat from the screenwash system on the Auris.

>>the super cold we had experienced in UK last week<<

I don't actually think it was super cold, were we are / were it was up to 3 (sometimes 4) degrees below zero, that's not what I would call supercold. Though it has been consistently (and depressingly) cold, as in around zero - just above or just below - for a week or two.

 

Indeed, this time around the south got hit worse than the north of the country., also unusual event. 👍

[Justin Smith]

6 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Indeed, this time around the south got hit worse than the north of the country., also unusual event. 👍

We should all have gone to Tenerife..... It's back to normal now there AFAIK

[Roy124]

Long ago I had a SAAB washer heater.  Cut the coolant pipe on the outlet side, inserted the metal device and rerouted the washer tube to the heat exchanger.  My later Merc had a heater as standard. 

[Justin Smith]

4 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Long ago I had a SAAB washer heater.  Cut the coolant pipe on the outlet side, inserted the metal device and rerouted the washer tube to the heat exchanger.  My later Merc had a heater as standard. 

Sounds good, though surely cutting holes in the bonnet insulating pad would be cheaper !

[Roy124]

It delivered hot water to the windscreen and headlights all year round. 

 

[Justin Smith]

10 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

It delivered hot water to the windscreen and headlights all year round.

I could have done with one last Sunday......

[AisinW]

I usually buy generic washer fluid -60C, naively 75% ethanol on it.  I can use it for disinfectant LOL.  

I only dilute it to 50/50 and never have frost issues, about -30C. Higher concentration also melt ice in windscreen faster.  I often use sealant/wax on the windscreen and wiper in winter.  It makes scraping much easier.  

[furtula]

I live in central EU and our standard winter liquid is -20C, the premium stuff is -30C.

Price for 5L of -20 is around 5.5GBP, and around 7GBP for -30C one. 

Would not use anything less than -20C, since the issues that arise afterwards are really not worth it, just to save few pennies over the span of months.

 

[Justin Smith]

2 hours ago, furtula said:

I live in central EU and our standard winter liquid is -20C, the premium stuff is -30C.

Price for 5L of -20 is around 5.5GBP, and around 7GBP for -30C one. 

Would not use anything less than -20C, since the issues that arise afterwards are really not worth it, just to save few pennies over the span of months

The problem is getting hold of it in Britain F. As I mentioned above most people get their screenwash from the supermarket, and there -5 is usual, though many are only -3 !

Does anyone know if screenwash of different colours (and possibly different formulas) can be mixed ? I would have thought they should be able to because it would be impossible not to mix, at least some of it, in the tank !

[furtula]

They are all mixed with some sort of alcohol, to reduce freezing point. 

So i think even a cheap one can be mixed with alcohol, to reduce freezing point. 

[TonyHSD]

Yes they can be mixed but one thing to remember they can also go bad when mixed. I did once two different types screen wash and the results were disaster. After I mixed these the mixture went bad and started smelling like old blue cheese ,, the worst part is that when you clean the windscreen all the fluid goes into the gutter under the wipers, the very same place where the car hvac system breathe and all that nasty smell was coming inside the car. Took few days to realise that, got all nastiness out of the tank, washed the gutter and bought new quality concentrate made by Sonax German brand. Well, all nasty smell was gone and I was enjoying clean view ahead and pleasant smell inside the cabin, no smelly cheese 🧀 anymore. 
The bad screen wash mixture was from Tesco own brand and old holts. And btw, once open the screen wash no matter if winter one best to use it all and buy a new bottle next time. Lesson learned hard way again. 😂