Batteries

[TonyHSD]

The important thing is how often do you travel 300+ miles trip?

In our family in the UK we have 1 hybrid and 1 electric cars. The H is mine but I do serious driving 200-300 miles per day. The gf ev cover 20-30 miles daily and it’s the best type of car she can have. I always been saying she needs an ev since 2010 as she was only driving 2-3 miles per day, school run. Back then almost nothing available as plug in ev, then it was a Mitsubishi imiev but she didn’t make the switch until 2021 when she bought the ioniq. She likes it a lot, me too and even I looked at their hybrid variants but they are no where near Toyota as good as hybrid technology. Me thinking now if we decide to downgrade to only one car perhaps phev might be the best simply because there is no current bev that can serve me well without been worrying about range and Battery health in a long run as batteries in full evs does degrade indeed like on mobile phones while on Toyota hybrids these batteries are more like a huge capacitors that store energy for a short time as they get quickly charge and discharge millions times. I believe Toyota phev are also good as their hev siblings and will last ages too. 

[philip42h]

22 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

The important thing is how often do you travel 300+ miles trip?

That's close, but not quite the right question - the question that should be posed is "Do you ever need to take a trip that is beyond the range of your candidate EV, and, if you do, do you have an alternative means of accomplishing that journey?". Then, as you say, if an EV will satisfy your motoring needs, an EV is probably the car for you.

In our family we have a pair of hybrids - much of the time they both sit in the garage going nowhere at all but occasionally they are both put on the road doing longer journeys as we go 'somewhere' independently. We are not as good at sharing as perhaps we should be ... 😉

We really should be in the situation of having one hybrid (go anywhere) and one EV (go 'local') and, maybe, at the next 'change' we will get there ...

[Yugguy1970]

An ev would suit my daily driving absolutely but on the longer journeys like uk holidays and seeing family I might well be thinking hire a normal diesel just in case.

[TonyHSD]

5 minutes ago, philip42h said:

That's close, but not quite the right question - the question that should be posed is "Do you ever need to take a trip that is beyond the range of your candidate EV, and, if you do, do you have an alternative means of accomplishing that journey?". Then, as you say, if an EV will satisfy your motoring needs, an EV is probably the car for you.

In our family we have a pair of hybrids - much of the time they both sit in the garage going nowhere at all but occasionally they are both put on the road doing longer journeys as we go 'somewhere' independently. We are not as good at sharing as perhaps we should be ... 😉

We really should be in the situation of having one hybrid (go anywhere) and one EV (go 'local') and, maybe, at the next 'change' we will get there ...

If you travel once in a while longer trips you can eventually be ok with ev even past it’s range but it’s a huge burden to think where and how if possible to recharge, it really takes the pleasure of the whole travel and makes something enjoyable a nightmare. Btw my gf shortly after she had her new car she went on trip from London to the west of the country. A journey usually shown as 4 hrs on Google maps it took her around 8-9 hrs. Traffic, didn’t planed properly stopping points, unavailability of charges, she mentioned waiting queue for charging at most chargers and further you go into the less populated areas lesser amount of chargers available. On her way back it was slightly better but ever since anywhere we go distance we use my old trusty hybrid. 😂👍

[Roy124]

Tony, quite.  While we do perhaps 2-3 200 mile plus trips per year when it would be natural to stop for acrefresh/recharge that is not the key. 

A typical journey once a month is a 75 mile trip AND return. As the purpose is to visit/collect the wife's aged P the last thing we need is a trip to a charge point. 

[Flatcoat]

How often I travel long journeys is irrelevant. The pro BEV Govt use average journey length as the justification for forcing us to go electric without any clear understanding of the bandwidth real world use of cars. My once a week commute is 45 miles round trip and my average daily mileage is low. However Last Thursday I had a hectic day covering 200 miles in very cold weather without time to add in consideration of needing to charge an EV. We drive long distance holidays towing a caravan to Scottish Highlands, Cornwall, Austria in a year. There simply isn’t an EV that will cover those journeys without recharging every 100 miles or so. My RAV PHEV gives me close to 250 miles on ICE and my previous car 300+ (larger tank). 

[mobi]

1 hour ago, Flatcoat said:

forcing us to go electric

Nobody is forced to buy EV yet. Once can still choose ICE only, HEV, PHEV etc.

[Hayzee]

Range anxiety would definitely be the issue for not moving to a BEV. During the summer my PHEV was averaging around 3.8 miles/kWh, now it's 2.6 which is a 31% reduction in EV range. 

Auto Express latest review of the BZ4X showed a drop from claimed 278 miles to barely 200 miles in cold weather. A 28% reduction in range from the summer.

[Cyker]

It's worse for me as I'm used to being able to do a 'spirited' 600 miles in a Yaris Mk1!  

The Mk4 isn't too bad, despite the significantly smaller tank it still manages 500 miles, but it's a limitation of EVs right now that they just can't be small and have anywhere close to the range of an ICE car.

I'm waiting until Battery technology improves, but so far the breakthroughs and promises have been similar to the predicted timelines of Fusion and Oil running out so I'm not holding my breath...

 

[ernieb]

20 minutes ago, Hayzee said:

Auto Express latest review of the BZ4X showed a drop from claimed 278 miles to barely 200 miles in cold weather. A 28% reduction in range from the summer.

Very similar %ages but that would be useless for me, over the holiday I will do a 120miles trip then return a few hours later. At my stopping point there is no chance to charge the car, so a BEV would not work unless it could comfortable give me 250miles with a margin in the cold. I would not want to have to break my return trip to charge the car.

[Flatcoat]

1 hour ago, mobi said:

Nobody is forced to buy EV yet. Once can still choose ICE only, HEV, PHEV etc.

Stop being pedantic - the very clearly stated and legislated outcome is that beyond 2035 BEV will be the only show in town for new cars. 

[Cyker]

Plus with things like the 2nd ULEZ expansion all but certain to happen, there's nothing to stop them moving the goal posts at will once it's complete - I predict once the expansion is complete, the penalty will be moved to all diesel and Pre-Euro6 petrols when the expansion to the expansion also fails to make that scumbag any money.

 

[Roy124]

I see a commercial opportunity. 

Draw 100 mile arcs around major population centres.  Where two or three overlap ensure there is a commercial centre and charging points. 

There will be plenty of places already that meet this criterion, that hell with wheels called South Mimms for one. 

At 100.2 miles is Gonerby Moor services on the A1. That service are has all the charm of a recycling centre though they are installing extra charge point.  On the adjacent site is a large department store and a garden centre and this is due for development as a large outlet centre. 

Coincidence, very likely?

[Strangely Brown]

9 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

I see a commercial opportunity. 

Draw 100 mile arcs around major population centres.  Where two or three overlap ensure there is a commercial centre and charging points. 

There will be plenty of places already that meet this criterion, that hell with wheels called South Mimms for one. 

At 100.2 miles is Gonerby Moor services on the A1. That service are has all the charm of a recycling centre though they are installing extra charge point.  On the adjacent site is a large department store and a garden centre and this is due for development as a large outlet centre. 

Coincidence, very likely?

I'd really rather not be forced to waste my time being forced to buy overpriced coffee I don't want or look around shops that I have no interest in while I wait for my car to recharge. I just want to refuel and get on with my journey.

The blocker with BEVs is not range, it is time to recharge. For someone travelling in a business or work capacity that is time spent not earning. For domestic or pleasure travellers I find it hard to believe that they would choose to spend time finding and waiting for chargers.

I do not see BEVs as a viable proposition until they can be used at least as conveniently as ICE or Hybrids.

[Flatcoat]

17 minutes ago, Strangely Brown said:

I'd really rather not be forced to waste my time being forced to buy overpriced coffee I don't want or look around shops that I have no interest in while I wait for my car to recharge. I just want to refuel and get on with my journey.

The blocker with BEVs is not range, it is time to recharge. For someone travelling in a business or work capacity that is time spent not earning. For domestic or pleasure travellers I find it hard to believe that they would choose to spend time finding and waiting for chargers.

I do not see BEVs as a viable proposition until they can be used at least as conveniently as ICE or Hybrids.

👍 good post 

[Cyker]

There are loads of retail parks around that could have their carparks upgraded to charge EVs - Site is already in place so they'd just have to run power, instead of consuming more greenfield sites and waste time, money and resources building one from scratch.

[ColinB]

A 20 minute break every couple of hours or so tho recharge up to 80% or so wouldn't be an issue for me as long as I could get straight onto a charger when I arrived, however this is often not the case at the moment. A couple of Sundays ago we did a 320 mile round trip to see family, easy with our HEV but would have had me rushing around looking for a charger with a BEV. I don't do many miles a week normally, and only 4k a year, but included in that are a couple of trips or more to Cornwall where chargers are like hens teeth. For me at the moment BEVs just don't make sense at present.

[Roy124]

2 hours ago, Strangely Brown said:

For domestic or pleasure travellers I find it hard to believe that they would choose to spend time finding and waiting for chargers.

I agree with you except for the above.  I cannot think why so many people do indeed visit the Service areas as they do. 

In the Midlands we were directed to a pub in Salt.  Had we not left the dog at home we would have stayed the night. 

Travelling to the West Country we were persuaded to visit a pub a couple of minutes from the M5.  Most memorable was the half side of bacon between two loves of bread. 

 

[Strangely Brown]

15 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

I agree with you except for the above.  I cannot think why so many people do indeed visit the Service areas as they do. 

 

The answer for me is to use the toilet. I try to avoid paying their fuel prices and I very rarely ever want food or drink from service areas.

I do not find the need to stop every couple of hours and certainly not for as long as it would take to add any meaningful range to a BEV.

YMMV.

[NASY]

Autorail. Remember that - the answer to BEV range - drive onto the train get off close to where you need to be and the new system will charge your BEV whilst on board.

[mobi]

Quote

Stop being pedantic - the very clearly stated and legislated outcome is that beyond 2035 BEV will be the only show in town for new cars. 

2035 is still several years away, an EV bought today will be worthless by 2035 as Battery technology will improve leaps and bounds by them. So if a suffering comes in 2035, no need to suffer from 2022. 

Also, used ICE cars will continue to be available beyond 2035. So the choice will always remain. 

Quote

The blocker with BEVs is not range, it is time to recharge.

Exactly! This is what most EV lovers tend to overlook. An ICE can be refulled in 5 minutes to give 500 miles range. An EV will take hours! 

I follow a simple thumb rule - if government says something is good for us, then I do the opposite. 

[Cyker]

I've been feeling that too; The diesel thing being one of the most egregious. But it does seem every time they introduce a new scheme and encourage people to use or rely on it, they then later withdraw it or change it so it's much worse, leaving people who moved to it high and dry.

It's trained me to have a very much stick with what you know attitude, even if it initially seems disadvantageous vs the new hotness.

 

[Flatcoat]

5 hours ago, mobi said:

. 

Exactly! This is what most EV lovers tend to overlook. An ICE can be refulled in 5 minutes to give 500 miles range. An EV will take hours! 

I follow a simple thumb rule - if government says something is good for us, then I do the opposite. 

In that respect I agree. There is also a misunderstanding about fast charging. Just because a car has the capability doesn’t mean all chargers are fast. Very few are, in part the infrastructure simply cannot cope with the demands imposed upon it by fast charging. There are parts of the Uk (incl London) where new housebuilding is not possible because the grid will not be able to meet the peak demand now, let alone when there are more EV’s. the whole EV issue will end in tears. 

[Strangely Brown]

The future awaits...

https://topcarnews.net/six-hour-queues-show-what-its-really-like-owning-a-tesla-at-christmas-s190400.html

 

[ernieb]

31 minutes ago, Strangely Brown said:

The future awaits...

https://topcarnews.net/six-hour-queues-show-what-its-really-like-owning-a-tesla-at-christmas-s190400.html

 

Yes, unfortunately we came back on the M1 south yesterday absolutely rammed. Saw a couple of Tesla’s parked in the near side running lane and massive queues trying to get in and out of the service areas. On the way up we stopped at TROWEL M1 North bound and there were BEV’s waiting in line at 10am.