Front ball joints sweating

[DerekHa]

Hi there Ifty,

Have been reading your topic and replies over the last few days and a thought crossed my mind.

Have had similar sounds develope on various cars in the past, crunching and creeking noises that are most apparent going over bad/uneven road surfaces. I admit that the vehicles were older and higher milage than yours.

The front anti rollbar rubber bushes underneath the vehicle can become very dry and in turn cause noise. A good spray with a silicone type lubricant will stop the noises if this is the problem. A lot cheaper than new ball joints and easy to do if the vehicle  is jacked up slightly. It wouldn't invalidate your warranty either just make sure you use silicone, not WD40 type lubricants as they will attack the rubber

[TonyHSD]

I did already mentioned. Wd-40 yellow cup silicone spray is the best in business. Spray all suspension bushes front and rear except stabiliser bar bushes, they should stay completely dry. The silicone cleans and acts like rubber rejuvenator that helps prevent rubber ageing, cracks, and hardening. Most Toyota cars with McPherson front suspension has circled rubber bush positioned horizontally. This rubber bush has two cuts inside and the inner part flexes when the suspension moves up and down. With the time and particularly during the winter salt, grit gets and dirt gets trapped in these little cuts and when the rubber is  flexing those creates these nasty noises like your wheels will break off the car. The best solution: wash with soft brush and water plus car shampoo or something not too strong, then dry and spray with silicone spray. You can simply spray with silicone spray and all your drama will be over. Here the bushes in question. To test the ball joints, lift front end with wheels of the ground, try to move each wheel holding at 12 and 6 a clock, then try at 3 and 9 a clock. Then turn steering wheel slowly left to right and listen for any abnormal noises, pay attention if there are any where they come from bottom or top, bottom means bad ball joints, top means bad McPherson bearing. Also pay attention to top of the spring , if jumps at some point also means McPherson mount bad bearing. These two issues comes when steering wheel is turned. When suspension travel up and down is more likely dirty bushes. If you can locate ball joints making grinding noises then whoever inspect the car needs to touch them while someone is turning the steering wheel, if they are faulty they will vibrate. 👍

[IftyH]

Thanks for the very informative video clip. After watching that clip and reading all your guys comments, I personally don’t believe there is a ball joint issue here. 
 

As my Yaris is still under warranty, what should I say is the issue here, to Toyota GB?

[IftyH]

I’ll take on board your advice for self resolution with the silicone spray but let’s see what Toyota GB, says?

[anchorman]

49 minutes ago, flash22 said:

get a second opinion asap

As devon said its not covered as it's not specified, ball joints are a wear and tear item

 

 

They might be but 85000 miles isn’t exactly astronomical.   What will a second opinion show that Toyota didn’t?

[flash22]

Sweating ball joint is dealer BS for grease/oil on the joint cover - why a second opinion, dealers aren't to be trusted, if the ball joints were worn or the boots split it would have failed the MOT

OP has been quoted silly money and full retail for the parts

[Cyker]

It might be worth getting the dealer to show you - If they can show you the ball joint is making the crunching sound when it's moved then fair enough, but it seems like the problem might be something else.

I have to say my own experience with toyota dealer diagnostics (With my Mk2's AC system) has not been very positive, as they stopped at the first thing they thought it could possibly be, even with me telling them the easy stuff had been checked, and didn't verify or do any further checking. I was still giving them the benefit of the doubt at that point but lo and behold, after shelling out all that money, the problem was not fixed at all and they then found more 'possible' causes when I returned and complained, at which point I had to question why they didn't find these in the first place. (Of course they refused to refund the unneeded work, but I was able to get them to discount that and more off the Mk4 so there was a silver lining at least!).

I've made a point since then of getting them to show me and explain why they think something is a problem, rather than just taking their word for it, as they haven't shown themselves to be any better than independent garages at diagnostics.

 

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, IftyH said:

I’ll take on board your advice for self resolution with the silicone spray but let’s see what Toyota GB, says?

You can go to the car turn your steering full lock to the left and then after to the right and you can take pictures of the ball joints of both wheels, take some pictures of the outer tie rod ends and share with us. We can further assist based on what we see on the pictures and whether to chase Toyota for warranty repair or simply spray some silicone and sort your issue without more headaches. If. You feel your car is solid while driving, tyres are wearing equally, no knocks and bangs , then you might be ok and no need to do anything. 

[Bper]

43 minutes ago, Cyker said:

It might be worth getting the dealer to show you - If they can show you the ball joint is making the crunching sound when it's moved then fair enough, but it seems like the problem might be something else.

I have to say my own experience with toyota dealer diagnostics (With my Mk2's AC system) has not been very positive, as they stopped at the first thing they thought it could possibly be, even with me telling them the easy stuff had been checked, and didn't verify or do any further checking. I was still giving them the benefit of the doubt at that point but lo and behold, after shelling out all that money, the problem was not fixed at all and they then found more 'possible' causes when I returned and complained, at which point I had to question why they didn't find these in the first place. (Of course they refused to refund the unneeded work, but I was able to get them to discount that and more off the Mk4 so there was a silver lining at least!).

I've made a point since then of getting them to show me and explain why they think something is a problem, rather than just taking their word for it, as they haven't shown themselves to be any better than independent garages at diagnostics.

 

That's a bit worrying to say the least that the Toyota dealers reluctance to listen to you. Surely they have a duty to the customer to take into account concerns that a alternative issue may be the cause of a fault. 

What makes it worse is you know what you are talking about. 

So how does this attitude pan out with customers with little or no knowledge of car problems. It's almost like don't worry as long as you keep paying we will find the problem at some point.🤬

 

[IftyH]

I contacted Toyota GB. They also said get a second opinion from a different Toyota garage. This second Toyota garage said £150 for inspection if it’s not under warranty. If it’s under warranty, then it’s a free repair. 
 

Now what?
 

 

[TonyHSD]

3 minutes ago, IftyH said:

I contacted Toyota GB. They also said get a second opinion from a different Toyota garage. This second Toyota garage said £150 for inspection if it’s not under warranty. If it’s under warranty, then it’s a free repair. 
 

Now what?
 

 

📸 your suspension and get back to us if you want save £150. Every business currently is short of cash and accumulating more work is number one priority. Money first , customer second. 💰💸

[IftyH]

True. I’m at KWIK fit right now. He did a test drive & said it’s the anti roll bar link rods. 
 

 

[IftyH]

He said definitely not the sweating of the ball joints. 

[Cyker]

Those tend to make more of a clonking sound than a crunch when they go, but definitely more plausible than the control arm as they are known to wear on Yarisusesieueases. (Had to replace them on both of my Mk1s!)

[Pumatron]

Toyota appears to be pulling the wool over customers eyes with this relax warranty.

I never forget the old saying, nothing in life is for free.

Let’s be honest, do we know of any other manufacturer that gives a 10 year warranty? You can look at two ways, either the product is super reliable and is expected to last 10 years or you can look at it as a gimmick to get more customers through the door to up sell parts and servicing and make the warranty difficult to claim on.

So to clarify, Toyota were offering a full 5 year manufacturer warranty, now it’s 3 years and the other 7 seven years if you keep it main dealer serviced?

If that is correct I’m beginning to wonder how many claims would be successful after 3 years, I’d love to know the success rate of paid out claims on vehicles over 3 years old and under the new warranty scheme.

It’s all in the wording on these warranties, I can remember in my previous career as a technician, for example if you reported the wheel bearing on a vehicle as noisy, it would be rejected by the extended warranty, but if you reported the same wheel bearing as collapsed and subsequently causing a noise it would be covered.

I’m sceptical to say the least and only time will tell with customer satisfaction scores I suppose. 

 

[Baytree]

Haven't read the thread all the way through. Just wondered if he texted you this diagnosis and by “The front ball joints are sweating” he actually meant “The front ball joint's wearing”? Happens to me all the time when using talk to text. Also might not be unexpected after 80k miles.

 

I'll see myself out.

[bathtub tom]

8 hours ago, IftyH said:

I contacted Toyota GB. They also said get a second opinion from a different Toyota garage. This second Toyota garage said £150 for inspection

My sister-in-law was robbed of seventy quid by a main dealer to diagnose a slipping clutch. Any competent mechanic could've done it in a few moments.

[flash22]

On 12/23/2022 at 3:41 PM, Baytree said:

Haven't read the thread all the way through. Just wondered if he texted you this diagnosis and by “The front ball joints are sweating” he actually meant “The front ball joint's wearing”? Happens to me all the time when using talk to text. Also might not be unexpected after 80k miles.

 

I'll see myself out.

It is a thing, op has it printed in black and white as posted on the first page

click to enlarge

[Baytree]

Kind of proves my point if this was done on a PC with the Windows spell check thinking it knows better what the operator intended to write.

[anchorman]

44 minutes ago, Baytree said:

Kind of proves my point if this was done on a PC with the Windows spell check thinking it knows better what the operator intended to write.

Devon (who works at Toyota) reckons it is a term they use and not a typo……..

  “The OP mentions a "Sweating Ball joint" sweating is not a manufacturing defect but a symptom of wear & tare most likely to the rubber boot on the ball joint”

     
 

     
 

 

[Baytree]

Oops missed that. Big bill though 😥

[flash22]

Just to put this into context a lower arm complete with joint from the likes of Bilstien/Febi/Skf/Moog £50-70, oem is £160-190 with a bit of discount each, £40 for alignment and 2 hours labour