Rav4 PHEV fast charging?

[JEC]

Apologies for my ignorance, can you use a fast charging outlet at say a petrol station to charge the car quickly despite the on board charger limited to 6.6kw? Type 2 connector only though.

[philip42h]

The PHEV is AC charging only - via the onboard 6.6kW charger. There is no DC charging support ...

[HSDish]

Ive noticed/ my experience is that I could charge our RAV 4 PHEV 2020 at 6.5 kW as the fastest and that´s only on 22 kWh 32A 3 fas charger.

Most 11kwh charges only let our car charge at 3.5 kW and the most chargers charge slower than that.

Pitty as it would be a big advantage to charge Plug Ins faster as the cordcharged EV range are quite short.

Its not unusual for us to drive our PHEV the whole cordcharged EV range ( about 55km in winter to 75 in summer), in AM/morning and then need to drive some 55/75 km more in PM/afternoon and its hard to recharge the car with cord at chargestation that fast

[Flatcoat]

This shows how much misunderstanding there is about fast charging of EV’s. The car has to be fast charge capable AND you need a vacant and working fast charger. While more EV’s coming to the market can be fast charged, to the best of my knowledge no PHEV’s can be and there are fewer fast charging points about. For a PHEV I doubt the benefits are worth the additional costs involved. If you want to use your PHEV as a BEV then buy a pure EV. 

[HSDish]

5 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

This shows how much misunderstanding there is about fast charging of EV’s. The car has to be fast charge capable AND you need a vacant and working fast charger. While more EV’s coming to the market can be fast charged, to the best of my knowledge no PHEV’s can be and there are fewer fast charging points about. For a PHEV I doubt the benefits are worth the additional costs involved. If you want to use your PHEV as a BEV then buy a pure EV. 

 

I´m quite sure that for ex Merceres C300 PHEV got fast charging.

I would like a BEV Toyota but there isnt any suirable for us

[HSDish]

1 minute ago, HSDish said:

9 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

This shows how much misunderstanding there is about fast charging of EV’s. The car has to be fast charge capable AND you need a vacant and working fast charger. While more EV’s coming to the market can be fast charged, to the best of my knowledge no PHEV’s can be and there are fewer fast charging points about. For a PHEV I doubt the benefits are worth the additional costs involved. If you want to use your PHEV as a BEV then buy a pure EV. 

 

I´m quite sure that for ex Merceres C300 PHEV got fast charging.

I would like a BEV Toyota but there isnt any suirable for us

I´m quite sure that for ex Merceres C300 PHEV got fast charging.

(and quite long EV range to)

I would like a BEV Toyota but there isnt any suitable for us

[Flatcoat]

There currently is only one Toyota BEV so it sounds a little as though you need to decide what your priorities are? BEV or Toyota or fast charging capable PHEV? The RAV PHEV range is better than many albeit competitors are catching up. 

[HSDish]

2 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

There currently is only one Toyota BEV so it sounds a little as though you need to decide what your priorities are? BEV or Toyota or fast charging capable PHEV? 

As for now, we prioritize Toyota RAV 4 PHEV 🙂

[Flatcoat]

We love ours however Good luck getting a new one….. 

[nlee]

3 hours ago, JEC said:

Apologies for my ignorance, can you use a fast charging outlet at say a petrol station to charge the car quickly despite the on board charger limited to 6.6kw? Type 2 connector only though.

PHEV will charge on any Type 2 charging plug regardless of power output. However, you are correct that it will be limited by the onboard AC to DC charger which is limited to 6.6kw.

[nlee]

1 hour ago, HSDish said:

Most 11kwh charges only let our car charge at 3.5 kW and the most chargers charge slower than that.

There is something not right about your set up then. The car should charge at 6.6kw provided the output of the charge point is above that. My home charge point is 7.4kw and it charges at 6.6kw. I have used 11kw charge points before and it also charges at 6.6kw.

[HSDish]

5 minutes ago, nlee said:

There is something not right about your set up then. The car should charge at 6.6kw provided the output of the charge point is above that. My home charge point is 7.4kw and it charges at 6.6kw. I have used 11kw charge points before and it also charges at 6.6kw.

Thanks a lot !

Lovely news (to me)

Not that theres probably something wrong with my set up but... that I hopefully can correct that.

Do You have any idea about what can be wrong?

[philip42h]

4 hours ago, HSDish said:

Ive noticed/ my experience is that I could charge our RAV 4 PHEV 2020 at 6.5 kW as the fastest and that´s only on 22 kWh 32A 3 fas charger.

Most 11kwh charges only let our car charge at 3.5 kW and the most chargers charge slower than that.

I rather doubt that there is anything wrong with your car or set-up, though I suspect that the car may be limited to single phase charging?

A 22kW (3-phase) charger is capable of delivering three phases at 32A each. A domestic 7kW (single phase) charger is similarly capable of delivering 32A (but a single phase). Either way, the car will charge at 6.6kW - so around 28A.

A 11kW (3-phase) charger is capable of delivering three phases at 16A each. It would appear that the / your PHEV charges on a single phase - 16A at 230v = 3.6kW.

You say that you sometimes get less than 3.5kW from an 11kW charger? This is likely only when the charger in question is incapable of delivering 16A - due to competing loads at that charger?

[Strangely Brown]

27 minutes ago, philip42h said:

You say that you sometimes get less than 3.5kW from an 11kW charger? This is likely only when the charger in question is incapable of delivering 16A - due to competing loads at that charger?

And that is yet another problem with mass adoption of BEVs.
Even when you get to a charge station and find a charger working and free it may simply not deliver the rate of charge that you expect. So, add another few hours to your wait / journey time.

Less than 3.5kW? That sounds like between 1 and 2 miles per hour charging.
 

[philip42h]

2 hours ago, Strangely Brown said:

And that is yet another problem with mass adoption of BEVs.
Even when you get to a charge station and find a charger working and free it may simply not deliver the rate of charge that you expect. So, add another few hours to your wait / journey time.

Less than 3.5kW? That sounds like between 1 and 2 miles per hour charging.
 

Kenth has a PHEV so has the option to run as a petrol hybrid - with a recharge rate of around 3,000 miles per hour?

A BEV would be using the DC charging network - so much faster than the AC charging on a RAV4 PHEV. And then, yes, the viability of BEV transport is dependent upon the charging network being in place and able to deliver the rated charge rate ...

[Hayzee]

8 hours ago, Strangely Brown said:

Less than 3.5kW? That sounds like between 1 and 2 miles per hour charging.

For 2.6-3.7 miles/kWh (seasonally dependent) that would give about  8 -13 miles per hour of charging I think

[Strangely Brown]

7 hours ago, Hayzee said:

For 2.6-3.7 miles/kWh (seasonally dependent) that would give about  8 -13 miles per hour of charging I think

Doh! I'll go and stand in the corner. 😞

Still... in my defence, that's still not much use to man nor beast.

[kucyk]

I don't see a big problem with charging speeds of PHEV, this car is not meant to be charged using a public charges, it's a waste of time and you are blocking the charging point that someone may need to continue the jorney or get home.

I have a schedule set in my HyperVolt charger to start charging the car at 5AM, so the Battery is ready to go at 8AM. It charges the car at 6.6kW and it takes 2:30h to charge it from 0 of full. It works for me 🙂

[Strangely Brown]

1 hour ago, kucyk said:

I don't see a big problem with charging speeds of PHEV, this car is not meant to be charged using a public charges, it's a waste of time and you are blocking the charging point that someone may need to continue the jorney or get home.

I have a schedule set in my HyperVolt charger to start charging the car at 5AM, so the battery is ready to go at 8AM. It charges the car at 6.6kW and it takes 2:30h to charge it from 0 of full. It works for me 🙂

For clarity: my comment was not aimed at charge times for PHEVs. As you rightly say charging them out in the wild is pointless. Rather my comment was related to the increased charge time for a BEV when the charger is unable to deliver the "advertised" rate... for whatever reason.
I'll wager you'll start to see "up to" labels on them in future. 🙂

 

[NASY]

PHEV, got to only make sense as a Plugin at Home Electric Vehicle, use it for as long as and revert to petrol if required. As for fast charging it sounds like a very expensive way to access energy, opposite to fast foods that deliver lots of calories for the buck rapidly whereas slow food is an expensive way to access the same calorie level, if achievable at all.

[Rav Rob]

On 12/26/2022 at 12:56 PM, Flatcoat said:

This shows how much misunderstanding there is about fast charging of EV’s. The car has to be fast charge capable AND you need a vacant and working fast charger. While more EV’s coming to the market can be fast charged, to the best of my knowledge no PHEV’s can be and there are fewer fast charging points about. For a PHEV I doubt the benefits are worth the additional costs involved. If you want to use your PHEV as a BEV then buy a pure EV. 

My Outlander PHEV could, had DC Chademo as well as type 2 and I used to rapid charge most days (for free at that time!) on Ecotricity rapids on motorway services, 30 mins to 80%  Many say rapid charging is bad for the Battery but mine never lost range. Also it depends if your keeping it a long time or not. The damage, if there is any, is not really your problem if the car is moving on in 3 years.

[HSDish]

I checked "charging current speed" for our car (in the car computer) and its set to "MAX".

We live in an apartment and we got three charging posts with two soccets each  and with "max" 11kwh speed ( A(mpere) and phase isnt specified and.... with this winter outdoor temperature ( +5 - -2 C ) it takes 4 hours and 40 minutes to charge our RAV 4 PHEV from 0-100 % from those charginposts. In summer we could charge 0-100% in about 3 hours. if we are/were the only car at the chargingpost (no other car at the other soccet). If there is another car at the other soccet it can take more than 6 hours to charge from 0-100%.

 

At least here in Sweden its not unusual that public chargers delivers less than 3.5 kWh even if the charger are specified 22kW , to our RAV 4 PHEV

[HSDish]

I checked my bills/receipts from Eways,the company that runs our charging posts outside our appartment and we have never charged more than 14.57 kWh ( usually about 13.80 - 14.20 kWh according to Eways receipts ) at one charging occasion, from 0-100 % . RAV 4 PHEV got a 18.1 kWh Battery so I guess there is some "buffert".

The car got 6.6 kWh onboard charger so... cause it takes 4 hours and 40 minutes (now in winter when the outside temp. is about -5 - +5 C )for us to charge 0-100 % at Eways max 11 kWh chargingpost, I guess it can´t be more than 16A and 1 phase (there is no info. about Ampere and phase on the post)

I mailed Eways and asked about A and pahes but haven´t got any answer jet.

[Hayzee]

There's around 25% of the traction Battery reserved for hybrid operation so yes if you're at 0 miles EV range the max charging is going to be around 13-14 kWh.

[HSDish]

In the apartment building where we live, we have 6 charging posts, with two sockets on each, from Eways and we who are residents have charging cards that we can charge for 2.75 sek / kWh (incl.  VAT) for.
However, it takes a long time, 4 h and 40 min now in winter (took 3 h and 40 min this summer) to charge our RAV 4 PHEV which has a 6.6kWh onboard charger and a total of 18.1 kWh Battery, from 0-100% (empty to full). Realizing that the car has a buffer so 0-100% probably does not mean 18.1 kWh. Looking at the bill that the car never charged more than 14.5 kWh on a 0-100% charge. However, should be some "waste" of electricity during the charging process.

On  3 chargers it says a maximum of 11 kWh (where I usually charge) and 3 poles with a maximum of 3.7 kWh but no indication of A or phase on any of the poles, so I wrote to Eways and asked.  

Got the below answer -

"the charger is 3 phase 16A. You can therefore get a maximum of 3.7kW on each phase. Unfortunately,  plug-in hybrids can only receive charging from one phase which means you only get 3.7kW/h.

With
 best regards,"