Yaris Cross 12v Battery

[Roy124]

On 12/29/2022 at 10:48 AM, SinglePointSafety said:

Interesting post Mike: I wonder if that (dealer unlock) coincides with the car fully appearing on the MyT app, so I could then see its journeys, fuel level etc

Regarding battery, we had a Mk3 Yaris (sold last year, excellent car, totally fault-free) as our 'second' car and once had to leave it unused for 4 weeks: it appeared to be fine

It doesn't. 

My car appeared in the dealers pound a mile from the dealership and was there for 10 days.  I then saw it moved to the garage for PDI, spare wheel fitment, lock nuts?, and dash cams.  I saw it was moved and when it was locked or unlocked.  Only on the day of sale did I note it was driven to Sainsbury and fuelled. 

[Roy124]

On 12/29/2022 at 10:51 AM, RickyC said:

 

When finally car reaches the dealer it will be reconnected as part of PDI.

Probably during PDI it will also been recharged with an external charger.

Again not true.  I could not 'see' the car before it was in the pound which implies the Battery was already connected. 

In fact logically the car needs to be powered to get it off the transporter and manoeuvred in the  pound. 

[Roy124]

1 hour ago, anchorman said:

Agreed, this could be true although it needs to be proven.  I think some owners are doing themselves no good without realising.   

Don, I agree, I got it wrong all ways.  I got my car as Covid and lockdown struck. 

Toyota did not issue the Ready Mode instruction until the following month and never told me. 

I drove the car in the same way I drove an ICE, switching off at every opportunity to save fuel and stop the coil overheating if the ignition was on. 

By the time the AA man told we what Ready mode was, but not the hour a week, the damage was done. 

Now I look after my Battery with regular monitoring and charging. 

[Roy124]

People complain, with some justification, about the Battery, but think back. 

We used to have a regular required before-use routine.  Ideally it was daily but sensibly once a week and definitely before long journeys.  All the oils and water levels, tyre pressures. 

How many remember removing all the Battery cell tops, topping up with distilled water, watching the electrolyte bubble when it waz gassing off as you charged it?  

Remember also checking the SG of each cell? 

Cars are much easier now but how many breakdowns could be avoided by checking the car before a journey? 

[RickyC]

1 hour ago, Roy124 said:

Don, I agree, I got it wrong all ways.  I got my car as Covid and lockdown struck. 

Toyota did not issue the Ready Mode instruction until the following month and never told me. 

By the time the AA man told we what Ready mode was, but not the hour a week, the damage was done. 

Now I look after my battery with regular monitoring and charging. 

I too didn't receive any indication about Battery care and received the suggestion to put car in ready mode by My Toyota app or looking forums and not by dealer when I got the car.

Luckily in two years I never had 12V Battery problems even if I don't use car every day.

I like to follow forums also for my personal interest, to better know my car ad finfd hints from other people ( thay could have more exoerience than me ) but I think that many people start reading forums just to complain when they have a problem. 

[Dala]

The AGM car Battery has only one problem:

voltage must not drop below 12.06V (50% SoC)

if so, the life of the car Battery decreases faster

according to users who know and can measure the voltage of the car Battery, the voltage in Yaris hybrid cars is less than 12.0V after a few days

by driving, this car battery is recharged to a maximum of 80% SoC

therefore, these batteries must be regularly recharged with an external charger

[Bob66]

2 hours ago, Roy124 said:

People complain, with some justification, about the battery, but think back. 

We used to have a regular required before-use routine.  Ideally it was daily but sensibly once a week and definitely before long journeys.  All the oils and water levels, tyre pressures. 

How many remember removing all the battery cell tops, topping up with distilled water, watching the electrolyte bubble when it waz gassing off as you charged it?  

Remember also checking the SG of each cell? 

Cars are much easier now but how many breakdowns could be avoided by checking the car before a journey? 

Can rember my grandad talking about Rickets too :-0

[Max_Headroom]

 

Quote

 

When the owner receives its new car with 12v battery half way charged and they use the car only occasionally on short town trips plus seat in with acc mode because it’s their first hybrid and not aware of ready mode they kill the battery themselves each time they use the car and soon the car refuses to start

 

Is there a guide on the best way to look after the 12v Battery for those (like me)  who have never owned a hybrid and don't understand how these hybrids work but are very  interested in buying one, ACC mode and Ready mode don't mean much to someone who has only ever driven an ICE car, if their isn't one i am sure new members would appreciate someone spending time to post a new owners type guide if there isn't already one I've missed.

[Cyker]

TBH the advice could be summed up as: Use the car or use a trickle charger  

If you like driving and commute to work and/or visit places and people away from where you live etc. you'll probably never have an issue with it.

The hybrids aren't anything weird or special, they're just cars and they work best when you use them as cars.

So far from what I've seen, the people having trouble either had a dodgy Battery to begin with, or drive the car for 5 miles to the shops or something every week, if that.

Even Shmee150 has to plug all his garage queen supercars in to keep their 12v batteries alive (I think he's actually sponsored by CTEK now since he's using so many of their chargers  ), but not his daily drivers!

 

[Derek.w]

If your Battery flat on a brakedown truck driver will just jump start the car with a portable jump starter pack then the garage will do the same just to move it into the workshop.

[Roy124]

When you switch on an ICE you get red an Amber warning lights.  IIRC, red indicates the engine is not running therefore the alternator is not charging the Battery.  The yellow indicates there is no oil pressure. You turn the ignition key, the engine turns over, fires, the alternator starts to recharge the Battery and oil circulates.  Both lights should be out. 

Toyota Hybrid does not have ignition but instead powers up the system, once booted there is a confidence beep and a caption, Ready, lights up. The engine does not start. 

The car hybrid Battery now recharges the 12v battery and when you apply pressure on the accelorator pedal the car will move. 

Without any decision on your part the system will decide to start the engine to warm up, create heat for the conditioning, and charge the High Voltage battery. 

The 12v battery will provide power for seat heating, wiper and heater fan, lights  and in turn will be recharged by the HV battery. 

As you drive this process repeats without and intervention letting you just steer the car. 

If you demand more power than the electric motor can provide, or the HV battery starts to become depleted, the engine will start. 

You might find after a trip that half the time and a third of the distance that you were running on battery. 

Once you realise the car does not need your novice intervention you will see how clever it all is. 

There are then tricks you might try to hyper miler. 

[Max_Headroom]

Thanks for taking the time to post that Roy.

[TonyHSD]

The acc mode is kind of a valet mode, if your car is broken and you need to turn acc to close the windows or shift to N on shift by wire transmissions for example. Acc mode on any car never been recommended to be used for seating in the car and listening radio or pumping up your tyres using air compressor off the 12v socket. I always had all my cars on ( ready mode) or engine at idle for non hybrid cars I had when needed to use 12v power for any auxiliaries. 
Same like on standard ice cars it is better to start the engine and keep it idling when you need to use any 12v accessories., in hybrids this is the equivalent of ready mode, ( engine will be on and off as per the system requirements but the whole car is brought to live and there is no risk of discharging the 12v Battery, even quite opposite, it is better.
During the lockdowns I have seen many car owners seating in their cars with engines ON and idling, perhaps for the very same reason. 👍

[anchorman]

16 hours ago, Dala said:

The AGM car battery has only one problem:

voltage must not drop below 12.06V (50% SoC)

if so, the life of the car battery decreases faster

according to users who know and can measure the voltage of the car battery, the voltage in Yaris hybrid cars is less than 12.0V after a few days

by driving, this car battery is recharged to a maximum of 80% SoC

therefore, these batteries must be regularly recharged with an external charger

Nonsense. 

[Hibird]

4 hours ago, anchorman said:

Nonsense. 

Perhaps it would be more helpful for all interested parties including me if you were to share your take on minimum voltage level before permanent capacity loss starts.

I would not be happy if my Battery had been sitting at 12.06 V for any extended  period of time if it could have been higher either by design or user intervention.

I would rather dealerships agreed with me rather than you but I have my doubts.

Look forward to any figure you may like to share for discussion.

 

[anchorman]

34 minutes ago, Hibird said:

Perhaps it would be more helpful for all interested parties including me if you were to share your take on minimum voltage level before permanent capacity loss starts.

I would not be happy if my battery had been sitting at 12.06 V for any extended  period of time if it could have been higher either by design or user intervention.

I would rather dealerships agreed with me rather than you but I have my doubts.

Look forward to any figure you may like to share for discussion.

 

The notion that the voltage must not drop below 12.06 or it’s scrap I don’t accept.  Your suggestion that it shouldn’t for any appreciable time is more accurate.  Further, he says that it will drop below 12.00 after a few days by his own reckoning will scrap the Battery.  This is tabloid pish.  There are loads of owners leaving their car unused for much longer periods with no problems.  It’s just blatant scare mongering with no substance.  

[flash22]

22 hours ago, Dala said:

The AGM car battery has only one problem:

voltage must not drop below 12.06V (50% SoC)

if so, the life of the car battery decreases faster

according to users who know and can measure the voltage of the car battery, the voltage in Yaris hybrid cars is less than 12.0V after a few days

by driving, this car battery is recharged to a maximum of 80% SoC

therefore, these batteries must be regularly recharged with an external charger

The Mk4 doesn't use an AGM Battery, it uses an LN type (calcium)

As i said before voltage is meaningless if you load a weak Battery with say 60 amps draw it can pull the voltage down to below 8v, 9-9.8v is minimal voltage most automotive components will run on

[Hibird]

54 minutes ago, anchorman said:

The notion that the voltage must not drop below 12.06 or it’s scrap I don’t accept.  Your suggestion that it shouldn’t for any appreciable time is more accurate.  Further, he says that it will drop below 12.00 after a few days by his own reckoning will scrap the battery.  This is tabloid pish.  There are loads of owners leaving their car unused for much longer periods with no problems.  It’s just blatant scare mongering with no substance.  

I was looking for a figure in there somewhere but could not find one ! perhaps you may still come up with one.

So as it stands I would have to go with Dala until we get a number from you which I guess will not be "tabloid pish'.

 

 

 

 

[Dala]

1 hour ago, anchorman said:

The notion that the voltage must not drop below 12.06 or it’s scrap I don’t accept.  Your suggestion that it shouldn’t for any appreciable time is more accurate.  Further, he says that it will drop below 12.00 after a few days by his own reckoning will scrap the battery.  This is tabloid pish.  There are loads of owners leaving their car unused for much longer periods with no problems.  It’s just blatant scare mongering with no substance.  

Do you have any proof?

 

1 hour ago, flash22 said:

The Mk4 doesn't use an AGM battery, it uses an LN type (calcium)

As i said before voltage is meaningless if you load a weak battery with say 60 amps draw it can pull the voltage down to below 8v, 9-9.8v is minimal voltage most automotive components will run on

https://youtu.be/cdTEUrHs9Uc?t=226

 

HJ-S34B20R_DATASHEET (1).pdf

[Hibird]

1 hour ago, flash22 said:

The Mk4 doesn't use an AGM battery, it uses an LN type (calcium)

As i said before voltage is meaningless if you load a weak battery with say 60 amps draw it can pull the voltage down to below 8v, 9-9.8v is minimal voltage most automotive components will run on

"Voltage is meaningless" Now that's a statement !

[Hibird]

On 1/30/2023 at 1:38 PM, RickyC said:

I too didn't receive any indication about battery care and received the suggestion to put car in ready mode by My Toyota app or looking forums and not by dealer when I got the car.

Luckily in two years I never had 12V battery problems even if I don't use car every day.

I like to follow forums also for my personal interest, to better know my car ad finfd hints from other people ( thay could have more exoerience than me ) but I think that many people start reading forums just to complain when they have a problem. 

I think many people start reading forums for the same reason as you to learn, be aware and participate in a community rich in knowledge.  However life is not a box of chocolates and and any forum will relect that. I think we need the full spread from fanboys to full on critics which we appear to have.

[flash22]

38 minutes ago, Dala said:

https://youtu.be/cdTEUrHs9Uc?t=226

 

HJ-S34B20R_DATASHEET (1).pdf 647.48 kB · 3 downloads

That is a Mk3 (P130), the Mk4 P210 uses the LN, either way you need to monitor the current draw vs the voltage with an amp clamp

35 minutes ago, Hibird said:

"Voltage is meaningless" Now that's a statement !

you can take anything out of context, "NOW that's a statement !" If you test an AA Battery without a load it will show 1.3-1.5v (effectively a floating voltage) as soon as you load it, it can drop to 0.6 - 0.8v, when it comes to testing wiring you can check continuity and resistance doesn't mean it capable of carrying current

with a hybrid, you are looking at a charge voltage that in is smoothed and regulated by a DC to DC converter

TBH, i don't see the need to be hyper focused on a 12v system

[anchorman]

1 hour ago, Hibird said:

I was looking for a figure in there somewhere but could not find one ! perhaps you may still come up with one.

So as it stands I would have to go with Dala until we get a number from you which I guess will not be "tabloid pish'.

 

 

 

 

And what are you going to do with this figure?  If you have to monitor voltage to 100th volt, are you going to monitor it and then take evasive action?  You can read all the docs you want and I see he’s posted charts but in the practical world these voltage excursions happen and a one off drop isn’t going to cause any measurable problems, you’d need a lot of short or a very long and if your trying to tell me that 12.05v is the end of the AGM Battery then the best thing you can do is get it sold or have a subscription with Yuasa.  I don’t care whose “fact” you follow.  

[Hibird]

30 minutes ago, flash22 said:

That is a Mk3 (P130), the Mk4 P210 uses the LN, either way you need to monitor the current draw vs the voltage with an amp clamp

you can take anything out of context, "NOW that's a statement !" If you test an AA battery without a load it will show 1.3-1.5v (effectively a floating voltage) as soon as you load it, it can drop to 0.6 - 0.8v, when it comes to testing wiring you can check continuity and resistance doesn't mean it capable of carrying current

with a hybrid, you are looking at a charge voltage that in is smoothed and regulated by a DC to DC converter

TBH, i don't see the need to be hyper focused on a 12v system

The SOC of any 12V vehicle Battery AGM or other Lead acid Calcium combination is directly related to it's resting terminal voltage & temperature.

 

22 minutes ago, anchorman said:

And what are you going to do with this figure?  If you have to monitor voltage to 100th volt, are you going to monitor it and then take evasive action?  You can read all the docs you want and I see he’s posted charts but in the practical world these voltage excursions happen and a one off drop isn’t going to cause any measurable problems, you’d need a lot of short or a very long and if your trying to tell me that 12.05v is the end of the AGM battery then the best thing you can do is get it sold or have a subscription with Yuasa.  I don’t care whose “fact” you follow.  

 And I still await a number, Dala made a suggestion that is not far of the mark to my mind and would make a fine suggestion for anyone looking for help. He nor I used the word scrap YOU did and then chose to focus on your own terminology as his, nonesense as you would say.

I appreciate you don't care that is clear because it does not effect you but does effect many and his post was only offering help for others.

For some people whos vehicles are connected to charges via smartswitches at every opportunity there is no problem but not everyone can do that.

I have nothing to sell as I don't have a problem !

Would still like a number!

 

[Dala]

I thought this forum was to help others.
If we are going to insult each other, there is no point in continuing.