Is there a need to use ICE occasionally?

[JEC]

I have a Rav4 PHEV, done 5500 miles since March 3rd of which about 350 miles using ICE on 2 long trips and occasional use when accelerate too hard on motorway or switch sreen blower on in morning sometimes to demist. Is there a need to get the engine working continously more often on a say 30 mile trip to help its performance? Don't particularly want to burn petrol but does engine need it?

[ernieb]

I understand that the cars systems will start the ICE if it's not been used to circulate the fuel, oil etc. I will often switch to HEV mode if the EV range looks likely to run out before I get home so that the ICE is hot and not going to fire just a few monuments before it's being switched off.

[TonyHSD]

Best to check owners manual for exact recommendations. I believe that engine should be run at least once a week or more often even only for around 15-30 min. Just to keep everything in working order. There are classic cars that doesn’t seen any starting for years but those are stored in controlled environment and not exposed to the elements. When you use the engine for faster accelerations joining motorways for example it is good the engine been on few minutes before that and has reached normal operating temperature for best performance, efficiency and long life. Cold ice never a good thing. 👍

[philip42h]

As far as I can see there is nothing in the PHEV Owners Manual to suggest that the driver needs to take specific action to run the engine from time to time. That question / issue is all left to the PHEV's systems.

The driver guidance section does recommend using HV mode when on the highway or freeway - to let the ICE help out - and there can be no harm done by following that advice.

The ICE will need to be serviced and the engine oil changed every 12 months whether, you've used it or not, and that should ensure that the fluids are always in good condition.

If you are using less than a tank of fuel each year you might want to consider filling the tank only half full to ensure that the fuel in the tank doesn't get too stale ...

[Strangely Brown]

17 minutes ago, philip42h said:

If you are using less than a tank of fuel each year you might want to consider filling the tank only half full to ensure that the fuel in the tank doesn't get too stale ...

... and if your fuel is sitting in the tank for that long I would not want to have anything with a high ethanol content. Find some E5 with as close to 0% as possible.

[Nick72]

2 hours ago, JEC said:

I have a Rav4 PHEV, done 5500 miles since March 3rd of which about 350 miles using ICE on 2 long trips and occasional use when accelerate too hard on motorway or switch sreen blower on in morning sometimes to demist. Is there a need to get the engine working continously more often on a say 30 mile trip to help its performance? Don't particularly want to burn petrol but does engine need it?

No user intervention required. The system seems to have a mileage and elapsed time and temperature logic that I haven't figured out yet. Left to its own devices it fires up on its own for me once every few weeks (3 to 5) if I haven't forced it through it through the front demister or putting it into HV mode. Pretty sure Toyota has thought this particular one through given their past experience.

As @Strangely Brown points out though the bigger issue is with stale gas as our North American friends refer to it.

[Strangely Brown]

1 hour ago, Nick72 said:

As @Strangely Brown points out though the bigger issue is with stale gas as our North American friends refer to it.

"Stale" fuel would be a problem over a long period of time certainly but I was referring more to the water absorption property of ethanol. A tank of fuel would likely absorb a significant amount of water over the course of a year and who wants that sitting in the bottom of their tank?

[Nick72]

2 hours ago, Strangely Brown said:

"Stale" fuel would be a problem over a long period of time certainly but I was referring more to the water absorption property of ethanol. A tank of fuel would likely absorb a significant amount of water over the course of a year and who wants that sitting in the bottom of their tank?

Stale fuel is being used as a euphemism. Plenty of debate on the US RAV4 Prime forums. But it includes the water issue as well as the volatiles evaporation problem leading to leaner fuel. I guess the main point is, don't leave the same tank full of fuel in the car for more than a few months. Best just filling up to a quarter of a tank for an infrequent ICE use and replenishing every 2 to 3 months depending on mileage.

[TonyHSD]

Really if no use of ice happens at least once a week why do we need to have one at all. A Battery electrical car will be more suitable and rent a car for those longer trips twice a year. No trouble keeping fuel in the tank or how often the ice will work. 

[Cyker]

That is the view of a lot of EV people, or have two cars, but I disagree as a car is a multi-purpose vehicle and should be able to do the vast majority of things you'd reasonably use it for. If you have to regularly rent an alternative vehicle you've clearly bought the wrong car.

 

That said, re-reading the OP's use it sounds like a normal EV SUV would be fine for them as the long journeys would just need to incorporate a rest stop or two to charge the Battery, and since they only done 2 'long' trips in nearly a year that shouldn't be too bad since they won't be used to long runs anyway.

I regularly visit my brother which is a nearly 250-mile round trip and there isn't an EV in existence right now that can do that in winter at 70mph and with range to spare for the inevitable midnight M1 closure diversions, and still be useful for my other majority usecase (i.e. squeezing through tight London sidestreets and narrow parking spaces!)

 

[Nick72]

17 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Really if no use of ice happens at least once a week why do we need to have one at all. A battery electrical car will be more suitable and rent a car for those longer trips twice a year. No trouble keeping fuel in the tank or how often the ice will work. 

It's a good point Tony. Depends I think upon average mileage and infrequent long mileage. So I run in EV mode for weeks at a time because my average round trip mileage is probably no more than 10 miles. Smooth drive and it's cheaper. A BEV would be ideal if it wasn't for this...

But when I'm on business or up in the Lakes I'm driving several hundred miles. Typical business trip average is about 350 miles at a guess. This might be 1 or 2 times a month and heading somewhere that isn't easy to get to by public transport or would take too long. And the EV ranges are still too short without the lottery of charging infrastructure (too much of a risk and takes too much time when I need to be somewhere at the drop of a hat and absolutely must be there). 

The stagnating fuel issue then doesn't become an issue for me as I'll use a tank or more in a month for those business trips which I get more than my money back for given a 2.5 litre engine puts things into the top compensation bracket for fuel in my business.

So I think it all depends upon average mileage, longest trip mileage, assurance of getting to a destination on time, and economy. Everyone will be different. Some will have just picked a R4P for performance alone. 15 or 20 years ago it would have been considered supercar performance.

[Nick72]

17 hours ago, Cyker said:

That is the view of a lot of EV people, or have two cars, but I disagree as a car is a multi-purpose vehicle and should be able to do the vast majority of things you'd reasonably use it for. If you have to regularly rent an alternative vehicle you've clearly bought the wrong car.

 

That said, re-reading the OP's use it sounds like a normal EV SUV would be fine for them as the long journeys would just need to incorporate a rest stop or two to charge the battery, and since they only done 2 'long' trips in nearly a year that shouldn't be too bad since they won't be used to long runs anyway.

I regularly visit my brother which is a nearly 250-mile round trip and there isn't an EV in existence right now that can do that in winter at 70mph and with range to spare for the inevitable midnight M1 closure diversions, and still be useful for my other majority usecase (i.e. squeezing through tight London sidestreets and narrow parking spaces!)

 

Similar situation. A PHEV works for me for just that reason.

The OP would be better with a BEV since as you say, if only doing the odd few long trips a year the infrastructure pain and planning is probably no big deal.

[richie69]

A workmate of mine had an engine light come on on his 3 yo. Mercedes (GLC?) PHEV. He took it to maintenance and they said there was some condensed water in the tank that went to to fuel system. No major damage but they had to do something (maybe just change the oil and filter?), Mercedes paid for the maintenance out of good will (warranty expired already). He at that time filled the tank few times per year and the tank was probably for the last weeks before filling it up pretty empty.

When I get my RAV4 PHEV (when ever that is) I'm gonna:

• keep close to full tank most of the time to prevent water condensation
• try to run the tank empty sometimes with longer trips only using HEV mode, at least four times per year
• run the ICE 25% of the time, more in the winter and less in the summer, always longer periods at a time (just using HEV mode)
• use EV mode on short trips when possible (temp min. -10C)
• use 98 octane 5% ethanol fuel rather than the 95 octane with 10% ethanol
• I might also change the engine oil every 6 months, even though the service program doesn't require this I'm thinking about doing this

[ernieb]

I’d be tempted to drive the car and enjoy the PHEV and see how your normal drive pattern works out. I think that using E5 fuel is a good idea, I do, and I also keep the tank pretty full. Toyota’s systems monitor the EV/HEV use and automatically switch to ICE as and when required. I’ve noticed that the ICE will fire when I’d no expected it too.

I also think that the 10K service intervals are more that frequent enough, more so than some of the competitors, typically 12k, I’ve even had 18k when using long like fuel in my diesel Yeti.

Best of all this is a great car, enjoy.

[TonyHSD]

Why do we think a condensation can form in the tank and particularly if it’s half way full or near empty? 
Toyota tanks are made of plastic and located well under the car plus covered with heat shield of exhaust passes near by. I think they are pretty cool even in the hot summer days and temperature margins aren’t as extreme. If naturally petrol with higher content ethanol dislodge some water which is heavier and will be at the bottom once te car start moving the fuel splashed inside and mixes almost immediately. Been working under the car and it feels like I am have been in a cellar. Also change few times fuel filters on older cars and inside the tank all been pretty clean even tank was made of metal. 👌

[Roy124]

After a transcontinental journey we had a failure to start in Strasburg.  The carburettor bowl below the filter was packed with small, flat pinkish granules. We suspect dirty or poor quality Turkish fuel.