2014ish RAV4 Questions

[RavingNZ]

Hi all and happy new year from New Zealand (the model numbers might be a bit different!). 

A few questions if I may.

We're looking at purchasing a Rav4, around about 2014 model is about right for what we want to spend ideally, so an earlier 4th generation model. 
It would spend 95% of it's life acting as 'Mum's taxi' going back and forward on shortish trips. But we're looking at getting a caravan (approx 1000 to 1400kg) and so a handful of times a year, it'd be towing this. I read the petrol versus diesel thread which suggests the petrol is more reliable and better for shorter trips - but would this still have the grunt to tow a caravan, or are we better off to go diesel for the few times we will be towing (some trips at least 600km one way). 
Are there any issues with the Gen 4 models to lookout for? I've heard stories about certain Prado engines being notorious for cracking heads, for example. We were after a GXL model (what it's called here) as opposed to a GX so it has the reverse camera etc. Also, it looks like there might be a couple of options with the gearboxes too, CVT, auto, manual. Any hints around that? We could go an older model with lower K's or a newer model with higher K's (due price). 
I'd love to go for a Prado, but the funds don't allow just yet, and the Rav looks a good size for us. 

Cheers all,

RavingNZ

[Eddiefh]

Wouldn’t go near a diesel for any mum doing short trips dpf will not like it 

[Strangely Brown]

1 hour ago, Eddiefh said:

Wouldn’t go near a diesel for any mum doing short trips dpf will not like it 

Diesels are brilliant... IF you do the miles to allow them to work efficiently. Otherwise, a life of short trips where it never gets fully up to temperature and the DPF never gets a proper regen cycle will, for want of a better phrase, kill it.

[philip42h]

3 hours ago, RavingNZ said:

Hi all and happy new year from New Zealand (the model numbers might be a bit different!). 

A few questions if I may.

We're looking at purchasing a Rav4, around about 2014 model is about right for what we want to spend ideally, so an earlier 4th generation model. 
It would spend 95% of it's life acting as 'Mum's taxi' going back and forward on shortish trips. But we're looking at getting a caravan (approx 1000 to 1400kg) and so a handful of times a year, it'd be towing this. I read the petrol versus diesel thread which suggests the petrol is more reliable and better for shorter trips - but would this still have the grunt to tow a caravan, or are we better off to go diesel for the few times we will be towing (some trips at least 600km one way). 
Are there any issues with the Gen 4 models to lookout for? I've heard stories about certain Prado engines being notorious for cracking heads, for example. We were after a GXL model (what it's called here) as opposed to a GX so it has the reverse camera etc. Also, it looks like there might be a couple of options with the gearboxes too, CVT, auto, manual. Any hints around that? We could go an older model with lower K's or a newer model with higher K's (due price).

It is difficult to give sensible advice because I don't know what specs were available in NZ as opposed to the UK and over the first few years of the 4.4 Toyota changed the engine and transmission options quite a bit (as you have alluded to). Also the car you might want for 95% of the time is rather different from the 5% tow car option.

As a tow car your best bet would be the 2.2 D4D Manual - it will tow up to 2000 kg  and doesn't have the fifth injector emissions control complications that the equivalent automatic is blessed with. It's about as simple and straightforward as a diesel from that period can get ...

The 2.0 valvematic VVTi is renowned as a dependable petrol engine. In 2013 it is advertised as having a Multidrive S transmission capable of towing 2000 kg and by 2015 it is described as having a CVT transmission with a tow capacity of 1500 kg. The emissions of both are identical so I rather expect they were different descriptions of exactly the same thing ... Pretty much the only issue with the 2.0 petrol is fuel consumption so, if you can live with that, it probably makes the better 'Mum's taxi'.

Edit: in the UK we never had the 2.5-litre four-cylinder petrol option that was available in Australia (and so maybe in NZ) so I can't comment on that option ... 😉

[RavingNZ]

On 1/2/2023 at 10:34 PM, Strangely Brown said:

Diesels are brilliant... IF you do the miles to allow them to work efficiently. Otherwise, a life of short trips where it never gets fully up to temperature and the DPF never gets a proper regen cycle will, for want of a better phrase, kill it.

Thanks. What sort of length trip are you talking to get it fully up to temp and how often would that need to be? For example, if it's doing 5-20 min trips (nothing over 60 kmh) all week, but then one 30 min trip (up to 100kmh) at the weekend, would that be enough? Cheers. 

[RavingNZ]

On 1/2/2023 at 11:54 PM, philip42h said:

It is difficult to give sensible advice because I don't know what specs were available in NZ as opposed to the UK and over the first few years of the 4.4 Toyota changed the engine and transmission options quite a bit (as you have alluded to). Also the car you might want for 95% of the time is rather different from the 5% tow car option.

As a tow car your best bet would be the 2.2 D4D Manual - it will tow up to 2000 kg  and doesn't have the fifth injector emissions control complications that the equivalent automatic is blessed with. It's about as simple and straightforward as a diesel from that period can get ...

The 2.0 valvematic VVTi is renowned as a dependable petrol engine. In 2013 it is advertised as having a Multidrive S transmission capable of towing 2000 kg and by 2015 it is described as having a CVT transmission with a tow capacity of 1500 kg. The emissions of both are identical so I rather expect they were different descriptions of exactly the same thing ... Pretty much the only issue with the 2.0 petrol is fuel consumption so, if you can live with that, it probably makes the better 'Mum's taxi'.

Edit: in the UK we never had the 2.5-litre four-cylinder petrol option that was available in Australia (and so maybe in NZ) so I can't comment on that option ... 😉

Thanks. 
I guess the question becomes, if the diesel isn't so good for the daily driving (short trips), then how will the petrol version go when we need to tow the caravan?

Yes I think we would just have the same models as Australia here. And at the end of the day, it's probably more or less the same internationally, just with different combinations and names?

[RavingNZ]

To put the question another way, is there an engine or gearbox that I need to avoid? As an arbitrary example 'the 2015 2.0 GXL is renowned for XYZ problems'.

Cheers all.   

[Strangely Brown]

11 minutes ago, RavingNZ said:

Thanks. What sort of length trip are you talking to get it fully up to temp and how often would that need to be? For example, if it's doing 5-20 min trips (nothing over 60 kmh) all week, but then one 30 min trip (up to 100kmh) at the weekend, would that be enough? Cheers. 

I would say that 5 mins is barely likely to get the water warm let alone the oil. 20-30 mins would probably be OK for oil temps but a DPF will typically need to be run at 2k+rpm for 20 mins or more, continuously in order to get fully hot and to be able to start a regen cycle. Once started it will need to be able to complete. Aborted DPF regen cycles are a common cause of diesel in the oil so you don't really want that.

Diesels are really only at home with regular long runs on motorways etc and will suffer if only used for local running around.

Bottom line is that if you don't do the miles then modern diesels are not really a good fit and you're better off with petrol, of better still a Hybrid.

[Cyker]

It's not so much the speed and time but the load - To keep the car healthy the diesel lump needs to get hot, so high speeds or carrying a lot of weight or a long up-hill - These all help get it good and hot which burns off deposits and get the exhaust hot enough to regen the DPF, maybe even without needing the car to squirt diesel into it (The diesel squirting is if the exhaust isn't hot enough to burn/regen on its own, but half the time it just makes things worse!)

The bigger petrols should have plenty of grunt for towing; They won't be as nice as they don't have turbo-chargers and you won't have that nice low-down diesel torque, but once they're moving they should be fine.

The fuel consumption will seem eyewatering bad if you're used to high mpgs (I always go quiet when people say their car is very economical but it turns out they're getting 40mpg... I'm used to 'economical' being 60-80mpg from my various Yarisusesies...!    ), but that's to be expected when towing with a petrol anyway, and since that's not going to be a regular thing it shouldn't be too much of a hardship.

I don't know what the political climate is like in NZ, but over here they're shafting diesel owners (i.e. the people they encouraged to buy diesels in the first place!) any way they can so it's hard to recommend a diesel except in very specific use cases (Generally the same people that already had diesels when they were still considered slow and stinky, and before the government started encouraging the general populace to buy them en masse!) 

 

[RavingNZ]

Thank you for all the replies. Greatly appreciated. Sounds like the petrol will be the way to go. 

So then if I'm looking at around a 2013-2016 petrol*, what's the recommendations on automatic versus CVT? I don't know much about the CVT transmissions**, but I heard some of the Nissan ones were hopeless. Best to go auto?

*I'll try for the 2.5L which they do sell here. 

**I see there's a thread explaining the workings, I'm more meaning the reliability of them. 

Cheers. 

[RavingNZ]

On 1/4/2023 at 10:26 AM, Cyker said:

I don't know what the political climate is like in NZ, but over here they're shafting diesel owners (i.e. the people they encouraged to buy diesels in the first place!) any way they can so it's hard to recommend a diesel except in very specific use cases (Generally the same people that already had diesels when they were still considered slow and stinky, and before the government started encouraging the general populace to buy them en masse!) 

 

They're doing their best to try and shaft everyone here, regardless of what they drive! 🙃

[philip42h]

4 hours ago, RavingNZ said:

Thank you for all the replies. Greatly appreciated. Sounds like the petrol will be the way to go. 

So then if I'm looking at around a 2013-2016 petrol*, what's the recommendations on automatic versus CVT? I don't know much about the CVT transmissions**, but I heard some of the Nissan ones were hopeless. Best to go auto?

*I'll try for the 2.5L which they do sell here. 

**I see there's a thread explaining the workings, I'm more meaning the reliability of them. 

Cheers. 

I'm pretty sure that the straight 2.5L petrol comes with a traditional torque converter automatic gearbox - and you shouldn't go wrong with that (bar fuel consumption 😉 ) but you may want to check the towing capacity - I've no idea what it is rated at.

The 2.0L VVTi of that period came with a Multidrive-S CVT - i.e. at CVT that emulates a 6-speed automatic transmission. I've no personal experience of it but understand that transmission to be fine and reliable. Again, you may want to check the towing capacity.

The CVT described in the pinned explainer applies to the hybrid engine only - available from around 2017 (IIRC). That would be the forerunner of the hybrid engine now found in the 4.5. It is quite brilliant but again you may want to check the towing capacity.