Is the Yaris suitable?

[bobcat]

Hi everyone,

We are looking to replace my wifes car later this year (Honda Civic diesel 2003) and have decided that a Yaris might be a suitable replacement.

I am a big diesel fan but given the complexity of current diesel cars plus the obvious intention to financially penalise diesel car owners it does not seem worthwhile to buy anything other than a petrol or petrol hybrid car these days.

The car will be used daily for the school commute which is a total of 40 miles a day (30% is a 50MPH dual carriageway and the rest is local roads) The advantage of the Honda is that it manages to do 55MPG without any real effort and can easily seat 4 adults so know the Yaris will be a 'downgrade' in some respects.

The Yaris will need to carry 3 'adults' and will also be required to carry 2 adults in the front and 2 in the back from time to time.

We are looking at a something which is around 2/3 years old, and have settled on the 1.5 Manual version.  I did consider the hybrid and whilst it does have a number of good points the upsides of the 1.5 on a 2019/2020 year are that:

It is cheaper than the equivalent hybrid at around £12,000 

Will eventually be used by the kids to learn to drive in so a 'stick shift' is best

Easier maintenance which can be carried out by a local independant mechanic that I use once its outside the 5 year warranty

I know many Yaris owners will probably recommend the hybrid, but from what I can gather the extra cost of the car will take forever to recoup in increased economy plus it has the other downsides of not being able to be used by the kids to learn in and slightly more complex maintenace requirement.

We do intend to keep the car a long time, both our current cars are around 20 + years old so we tend to maintain them well and hope to keep driving them for as long as we can! I don't expect 'newer' cars to last as long as the 'older' ones, but again I am sure many will disagree!

Anyone who has the 1.5 Yaris manual or has had one can you give me your thoughts on whether it will be suitable for the school run, size wise it is clearly a bit smaller than the Civic will it be big enough? and in terms of longevity do you think the 1.5 will last at least 10 years?  based on your experiences with the car.

As a side I have considered the new shape Yaris but it is rather expensive at around £20,000, is Hybrid only so not sure it ticks our boxes but again any views to the contrary will be considered!

I also considered a Corolla 1.8 which would certainly be closer to the Civic in dimensions, again we are looking at around £20,000 and it has the downsides mentioned above.

Thanks

Bob

 

 

[Roy124]

"Will eventually be used by the kids to learn to drive in so a 'stick shift' is best" 

When will they be learning?  I suspect it may be in 2 or 3 years.  Whether you get a manual or automatic is not really an issue.  They will no doubt get professional lessons and probably learn with a stick shift.  If they also practise in your car it should not be too different. 

Ask around your local schools and see what the balance is between manual and automatic. 

[Bernard Foy]

Take a test drive and take the children along and let them use the rear seats. Also school bags in the boot. Test both the Yaris Hybrid and the petrol manual stick shift, also the appropriate Corolla. Take all their views into consideration and then you pays your money for your most suitable choice.

[TonyHSD]

Either Yaris in both variants stick or hybrid auto or Corolla would do as good as Honda did or even better. If you inclined to the larger car Corolla still have used 1.2T petrol manual for around 14-15000£. But definitely Toyota currently make one of the best cars that are propelled by petrol. 

[Max_Headroom]

I have a 2019 1.5 Icon Tech and its a cracking car i had a diesel before and this is so quiet i would never go back.

The best MPG i have seen so far is  48  but as i never drive it carefully i am sure you could squeeze a few more out of it, i did consider the hybrid but having watched a few videos was put off by the acceleration noise in the video below, the new version doesn't make as much noise.

Don't worry about passenger space i have taken 4 adults in mine many times with no complaints, if you have any further questions don't hesitate to ask.

 

Edit to add - these are the figures i have just found using google - 

Engine	Official MPG	Real MPG Avg.
1.5 VVT-i	54.3–58.9 mpg	50.5 mpg

 

 

[flash22]

The used market is still silly at the moment, 2 year old mk4 is still £23-24k

Small diesels are all but dead, short runs are the big killer due to all the emission junk inc DPF (2010 onwards)

Hybrid - mid 50's to low 70's MPG, but hybrid is a very different driving style, some people just can't adjust

[Eddie G]

2 year old Mk4 Yaris £23-24k 😲 and i though my 21 plate was expensive at a shade over 21k when got it a few months ago, still a few around in my area for that but not many.

[MikeSh]

3 hours ago, bobcat said:

The advantage of the Honda is that it manages to do 55MPG

Having just filled up my hybrid I was doing a calculation a couple of hours ago and at our local prices (£1.45-£1.72) the fuel cost of my hybrid at 57mpg was more or less the same as a diesel getting 67mpg.

[MikeSh]

3 hours ago, bobcat said:

Will eventually be used by the kids to learn to drive in so a 'stick shift' is best

Or not perhaps.

Most people learning have to contend with steering, speed, traffic and manipulating clutch and gearbox - all at the same time. Many give up and just go auto.

I would suggest that a better way to learn is by doing it initially on an auto/hybrid until 'driving' on the public roads is second nature. Then follow up with a few professional lessons to learn 'stick' without the overwhelming stress - plus tips for passing the test (which parents teaching their kids may not realise they don't know).

You need to balance the cost of a few lessons against your lifetime running costs.

[Cyker]

With diesel it depends where you're going - If you're going anywhere near a major city then forget it as it'll just be a magnet for extra 'fees' and 'charges', otherwise pre-DPF era ones are still super efficient and reliable, assuming they haven't rusted to death   I think that would be a downgrade from what you currently have tho' as I think you have a diesel from the end of the golden age of diesel, before all the emissions control stuff being bolted on removed all their reliability.

 

I have to give an obligatory plug to the Mk4 as I have one   - It's very engaging to drive, with Fiesta-esque handling and driving dynamics, and like a diesel it has very strong pull from low down and the 3-pot even sounds like a diesel at times

I do like that, like a good diesel, it's just naturally efficient - You don't have to drive it specially to get high mpg, although if you do try to drive it efficiently the MPG gets ridiculous. The lowest mpg I've had is in the low 50's, due to cold winter sucking all the heat out the engine forcing it to run all the time, but I've had it up in the low 80's in summer when trying for it. With my normal mixed urban/motorway cycle and 'spirited' driving style I normally average mid-high 70's.

It's also very safe for new drivers as it's almost impossible to crash it due to all the safety systems. The automatic emergency braking system really works (Sometimes a bit too well!!  )

However it is very expensive for what it is, and there is a very long lead time for new ones. Used prices are even more ridiculous, sometimes more than new! Rear seating will fit 2 adults reasonably comfortably (Although nowhere near much legroom as the Mk2, which rivals some small SUVs!) but getting out of the rear is weirdly inconvenient due to the stupidly small opening angle of the rear doors. I think the Mk3, Mk2 and even Mk1 are better in that regard as they have rear doors designed for normal humans to use, unlike the Mk4...

It's not perfect, but it's damned good at what it does.

 

For manual cars, fair warning - The normal Yaris petrols will likely be *painfully* gutless compared to your current diesel, so prepare yourself for that. When I went from my Mk1 D4D (74HP) to the Mk2 1.33 (100HP) I was really disappointed with how little pull it had - It taught me that HP figures are not at all representative of how nicely a car drives in the real world unless you're using it on a track.

You talk about the Yaris Mk3, but if passenger space is a priority the Mk2 might be worth a look, as it actually has better rear passenger space than the Mk3 because you can slide the rear seats back independently in a 60-40 split. The boot does become similar in size to an Aygo's then tho'.  It's also a lot cheaper (But also older), but there is no 1.5; biggest engine is the 1.33 with the 6-speed gearbox, but only get later ones as the earlier 2009-ones are known to have a high oil consumption problem due to weak piston rings.

The Mk3 is a more 'normal' car so if it's going to be for learning to drive, it's a good option as it's generic as you can get - Has a standard dial-based dashboard behind the steering wheel (Unlike the Mk1 and Mk2 which have the (IMHO) superior but unusually placed central digital dashboards), the steering is easy and intuitive (For comparison the Mk4's rack is unusually fast and a bit over-assisted; I tended to over-steer when I first got it!) and has a nicely tactile gear shift and clutch (It will be a LOT easier to get the hang of the clutch in a Yaris than an Aygo for instance!). It's not as nice as a honda gear shift, but it does the job. It also has more of the evolutionary reliability improvements that Toyota constantly apply as problems are found and fed back to them.

The Yaris range in general are very reliable as long as they're used and serviced regularly; Their only achilles heel is oil changes, as they have timing chains which will go bad quickly if oil changes are skipped repeatedly, but if you give it regular servicing and oil changes the chains will last the life of the engine (Unlike the chains in some french cars  ). My first Mk1 diesel never skipped a beat and never needed a major component replaced while I had it (Unlike my Fiesta!). However, when I sold it to my brother, he drove it a lot less and it eventually rusted to death from sitting in a damp gravel car port too much. I had intended to run my 2nd Mk1 D4D until a suitable EV came out, and only got rid of it because of KHAAAAAAN! and his pet ULEZ project to shaft London drivers, but I'd added something like 90k miles to it while I owned with no major work needed in that time aside from the clutch and brakes, and I reckon I could have kept it going to 2030 easily if it hadn't been for KHAAAAAN!

My Mk2 was a lot less reliable as I made the mistake of getting a 2009 one and not checking it over properly; It was burning a lot of oil, the gearbox broke, and the AC system failed completely. As I needed a reliable car for work, and had been saving for the past decade for a suitable EV (In vain as it turned out), I ended up biting the bullet and blowing my EV fund on my first ever new car (!)

 

re.'learning stick', it might not be as important to learn a manual since the EVpocalypse is coming, but I do applaud your desire for your kids to learn manual from the get go - I'm a firm believer that people that can successfully pass a manual test are better drivers than people that can only pass an automatic test.

 

[Mojo1010]

Very comprehensive post by cyker, raises some very good points, as others have too. I will add my take but brief about it as don't have to do essays anymore 🙂 those days are long gone. Think cyker are doing adults evening classes lol. 

Ok bear in mind the future will be automatic, hybrid and electric, but I will give my take on the manual. So if going for a manual, I would say go for the MK2 Yaris 1.33 top trim t spirit and not go for 2-3 years old MK3. MK4 hybrid would be the one, of course that's auto and costly atm. Keep it for a few years or even after your children passed and use it. Cheaper to buy and any bumps and scratches will not hurt. 

As for learning manual, that is now the old school way of thinking. If you advise your children to learn in a manual then they will take your word for it. In my opinion its not necessary to be able to drive manual now, auto is the future. Of course what you as parents advising your children are your decision. 

When all the sky high prices of cars, hopefully makes corrections and come back down a bit in a few years, the MK4 Yaris hybrid or corolla hybrid are the 2 to go for. 

Edit: To add.

If your honda diesel is still good then maybe just keep it until these used/new car prices come back down and no need to change it. There will be more options then with budget.

[Cyker]

It's all I know how to do, write long rambling posts and hijack threads!   

[TonyHSD]

Learning to drive manual it’s all in the past now., don’t know why still exists a different driving licences here in uk. Manual driving courses doesn’t make you a better driver at all neither a safer one , it’s an old and wrong thinking. Once a pupil learned the rules and how to drive an auto car safely on the road then easily and quickly can switch to manual if needs to.
Majority of manual transmission qualified drivers don’t understand or don’t even know how to drive manual car normally, all they do is fight with the car controls., and you can see it as dangerous and fast driving on the roads. 
Once the law changes and automatic license been classed as full license almost no one will go to learn manual. People mostly do because of driving jobs opportunities, and then most driving jobs they take they will drive automatic vehicles. 

[anchorman]

10 hours ago, Cyker said:

It's all I know how to do, write long rambling posts and hijack threads!   

I know Khan isn’t on your Christmas card list but I do agree that congestion charging should be applied to anything less than Euro 6 engines.  I’m not a tree hugger, in fact these glue to the road protesters should be buried under one - that’s just something they’ve done since Newbury bypass because they don’t want to work.     But I do believe in climate change and its effect on the weather so while we have got the means to create clean engines we need to get on with it.  I live in the sticks but work in the centre of Manchester so have been ready for the constantly threatened congestion charge since 2016 by updating to Euro 6 cars at considerable expense.  Moaning about not being able to afford a suitable car doesn’t cut it so if anyone can’t afford it either get rid of it or cough up.  It frankly irritates me that Burnham keeps giving in.   It’s not a political or welfare issue, they need to start scaling back at least and get everything up to Euro 4 scrapped with Euro 5 the following year.  People find the money for iPhone 14s and !Removed! or vapes, find the money to clean the air up.   

[flash22]

With a large test centre locally there seem a lot more learners in autos, sign of the times, alot of cars on the market are going auto, we are going electric, Allegedly, 99.8% are automatic if you can technically call them that

 

wait till the new Euro 7 specs come in and no doubt another tax change

 

[MikeSh]

2 minutes ago, flash22 said:

we are going electric, Allegedly, 99.8% are automatic if you can technically call them that

UK licence regulations only have manual and automatic categories. Some people say an EV category should be added now, but since driving an EV is the same as an automatic it is simpler and cheaper to class them thus rather than changing the legislation.

[Roy124]

12 hours ago, Cyker said:

It's all I know how to do, write long rambling posts and hijack threads!   

And talking of that, I had a Fiesta in the late 80s, increasingly difficult to pass the MOT emissions.  My mechanic, EX-REME, would run it to red hot and it would pass, just. 

Serviced every 3 months until 183 000 miles with no component failures apart from an alternator that was mounted far too low. 

[Roy124]

Cyker mentioned a 6 speed box.  The most I ever had was 5 and once drove a Focus on the A12 out of Central London.  My left leg was almost numb from clutch operation. 

In Lincolnshire, on a 25 miles journey to work clutch operation as infrequent. 

Also my MiL was taught on a 4 speed box and now never uses 5th on her Micra.  At 98 it is too late to convert her. 

After rambling, how many gears will a learner driver use?  

[Max_Headroom]

Quote

Learning to drive manual it’s all in the past now., don’t know why still exists a different driving licences here in uk. Manual driving courses doesn’t make you a better driver at all neither a safer one , it’s an old and wrong thinking. Once a pupil learned the rules and how to drive an auto car safely on the road then easily and quickly can switch to manual if needs to.

I couldn't disagree more, i am teaching my son to drive (not in the Yaris) and its the first time i have done this i couldn't believe how difficult he found using a clutch and gearstick not just when setting off  but he had a tendency to swerving when shifting gear he also had problems  not knowing which gear to be in approaching a roundabout and junctions leading to stalling, hill starts were also a challenge,  i don't think any new driver who has only ever driven auto should be allowed to get straight into a manual and drive. 

 

[Mojo1010]

Yep drivers who got auto licence will not be able to drive a manual, they would be insane to want to drive a manual for leisure purpose, anyway they would not want to drive a manual ever. 

 

[Max_Headroom]

8 minutes ago, Mojo1010 said:

Yep drivers who got auto licence will not be able to drive a manual, they would be insane to want to drive a manual for leisure purpose, anyway they would not want to drive a manual ever. 

The only problem with going auto only is you are massively limiting the amount of used cars you can buy currently 70 per cent of the 31.7 million cars on UK's roads are manual.

[Mojo1010]

Those that want to drive auto only are not bother with limited auto available, there are plenty of auto and hybrids around. 

 

[flash22]

7 minutes ago, Mojo1010 said:

Those that want to drive auto only are not bother with limited auto available, there are plenty of auto and hybrids around. 

 

Some of the fastest cars in the world are auto or semi auto without a clutch pedal, the yaris GR is just about to be released in auto

[Max_Headroom]

45 minutes ago, Mojo1010 said:

Those that want to drive auto only are not bother with limited auto available, there are plenty of auto and hybrids around. 

Its not only limiting car buying power there is also a limit on the jobs they can do as many firms don't run auto vehicles.

[Yugguy1970]

I prefer auto absolutely, however...

Manuals will be around for decades and most cheap cars are manual and will be for years.

My daughter specifically wanted to learn manual so as not to be constrained in the future.