Yaris Cross, smaller wheels, bigger tyres

[SinglePointSafety]

This is a bit of a long post, so for the TL:DR folk (not that I blame you one bit) the summary is that I changed the 18-inch wheels on my YC Excel, to 3rd-party 16-inch wheels with all-season tyres. Result is significant reduction in road noise, better cushioning against our local abysmal roads and thus better bump absorption

Right....

For reasons of no interest to anyone else, I need to have winter or all-season tyres available for the car. Various solutions - extra set of wheels (steel or alloy) with appropriate tyres, swap with original wheels when required. Or fit winter tyres to existing wheels and get local tyre place to store summer tyres and do the swap twice a year. Or fit all-season tyres to existing wheels, keep or sell the factory-fit Falken tyres. Lots of options, various costs, taking into account need to transfer the TPMS valves or buy another set, convenience to me etc etc. Your circumstances are likely different to mine, so what follows is my solution, may not be best for you. I'm just telling you what I did and hope that the information might be of some use/interest. My choice also reflects the truly atrocious roads where I live: council has pretty much given up repairs outside the cities and big towns, so it's not going to improve any time soon....

I looked at the cost of all-season tyres for the varying possible wheel sizes. For the 16-inch wheels, the 'official' size is 205/65, but it's perfectly legal to fit 215/65, which is a much more common size (205/65 is basically a van tyre) and hence cheaper tyres/more choice. I confirmed this change with insurance company, my dealer and the wheel manufacturer - see also https://www.willtheyfit.com/. A deciding factor was that for all-season tyres 215/65-16 vs 215/50-18, the former were about £50-70 cheaper (these prices may vary according to time of year, availability etc). Another factor is that 3rd-party wheels are hugely cheaper (~£100 each) than Toyota's (~£450). If you hit a pothole and wreck a wheel, good luck getting any £££ from the council

I opted for 5-spoke Alutec Grip 16-inch 6.5J (ie matching official Toyota size) from Performance Alloys https://www.performancealloys.com/ who were extremely helpful in ensuring that the wheels did indeed fit (including the offset, the 'ET' value), their prices are good and tech support was rapid and helpful. Either they or Alutec also included the correct wheels bolts (as well as centering rings): Toyota use flat washer type nuts, most alloys have 60-degree head angle nuts, so reusing Toyota nuts isn't possible. Also meant that I needed to buy a set of locking wheel nuts, my local Halfords sold me McGard 24212SU nuts (Performance alloys also sell them)

Since I was visiting Reading, I got the work done there (JustTyres). They were happy to swap the TPMS valves to the new rims, I opted for Goodyear Vector 4-seasons Gen3 based on price, availability, reviews. I can confirm that with a bit of care, the original wheels/tyres will indeed fit in the back of the YC, seats down of course. Re-tracing my route home, the difference in ride was very, very noticeable - the 'balloon' tyres really take the edge off the scarred roads. Bonus is the (expected) significant reduction in road noise and the filtering out of the 'buzz' from the road texture - even SWMBO noticed the change (!). No discernible fuel economy penalty, stats so far suggest a slight improvement, but that could be spurious. Really very pleased with the outcome

The original wheels/tyres are now happy and warm in my garage. As with a previous car, when I sell, I'll put the originals back on (of course) and sell the 3rd-party wheels/tyres, that was very successful last time and someone in the wilds of Scotland is the proud owner of some Borbet wheels with Michelin CC+ on them

Here are some photos: if you think the new wheels/tyres are fugly, I respect that, but I don't care - I have the aesthetic sensitivity of a !Removed! stormtrooper (and also the appearance, according to SWMBO, harsh but fair). When I took the car to the dealer to have a Noco lead attached to the 12V Battery, both the salesperson and technician nodded approvingly, the latter said "Yeah mate, roads round here, you need all the rubber you can get". Indeed

My time in the EU and elsewhere tells me that big wheels with low-profile tyres are a much more common affectation in the UK, despite their roads (generally) being in a lot better condition than ours

[RobertR]

Nice thread. That R16 look actually good. Not a big fan of small rims and bulky tyres but those rims look actually good. But If your priority is comfort over the look.

[SinglePointSafety]

9 minutes ago, RobertR said:

But If your priority is comfort over the look

Thanks Robert, yes, that's a fair assessment. The rims are in 'graphite' colour, ie stealth mode from day one

[Cyker]

I did a similar thing to my Mk4, switching to 15's, and found a similar improvement in NVH; I also seem to have had an improvement in mpg over the 17's the car came with, and wonder if you see a similar improvement as the new rims are presumably lighter.

I think the 16's suit your car's SUV-looks much more than the 18's personally. Love the 5-spoke rims.  

I think UK manufacturers have just gone a bit overboard with increasingly big rims and low-profile tyres; They've blown past the point where they look good and firmly into the stupid and ugly territory...

It shows a lack of imagination that they just stick on increasingly ludicrously big rims, thinking that makes the car more premium, rather than something that is a genuine improvement.

 

 

[anchorman]

I don’t mind them at all and the colour is good.  You seem quite conscious of what others think but it’s what you think that matters 👍

[SinglePointSafety]

Thanks Cyker (Edit: and anchorman) - haven't got enough pre-change data to make any statistically-valid fuel consumption comparisons. On our Yaris Mk3 we could opt for smaller wheels FoC and IIRC the incentive was the CO2 output reduced sufficiently to (just) get the car below a limit where - at that time - the TfL congestion charge was waived. That didn't interest me at all, but I was after a better ride, improved fuel consumption an added bonus

Totally agree about ludicrously big rims: it seems the higher the trim level, the owner 'demands' bigger rims. I'd love it if they just offered a choice, but I guess it would mean a whole bunch of extra WLTP testing

Another reason for the 5-spoke rims: experience with a previous car where I fitted 5-spoke Borbet rims, they're much easier to clean than the factory ones. Any OCD person would be reaching for the toothbrush with the Toyota rims

[anchorman]

Just now, SinglePointSafety said:

Thanks Cyker - haven't got enough pre-change data to make any statistically-valid fuel consumption comparisons. On our Yaris Mk3 we could opt for smaller wheels FoC and IIRC the incentive was the CO2 output reduced sufficiently to (just) get the car below a limit where - at that time - the TfL congestion charge was waived. That didn't interest me at all, but I was after a better ride, improved fuel consumption an added bonus

Totally agree about ludicrously big rims: it seems the higher the trim level, the owner 'demands' bigger rims. I'd love it if they just offered a choice, but I guess it would mean a whole bunch of extra WLTP testing

Another reason for the 5-spoke rims: experience with a previous car where I fitted 5-spoke Borbet rims, they're much easier to clean than the factory ones. Any OCD person would be reaching for the toothbrush with the Toyota rims

You can change the pads without taking the wheels off!

[SinglePointSafety]

Yep, almost looks like it! Can certainly check pad thickness easily

[anchorman]

4 minutes ago, SinglePointSafety said:

Yep, almost looks like it! Can certainly check pad thickness easily

😉

[Cyker]

That's a downside with my 15's - I went with steel rims so I can't see anything behind them!  

At least it stops me getting OCD about how rusty the brake discs get...!

I really don't get why the industry generally doesn't let you have smaller rims, only bigger ones - It's well known that bigger rims make the CO2 output higher which, in turn, makes it harder for them to meet their fleet CO2 target, and they cost more; Just having a no-cost option for smaller rims seems like a no-brainer to me.

I don't think it would affect the homologation; If you can option bigger rims without it affecting it, going to smaller ones should be even less problematic!

[SinglePointSafety]

Cyker, interesting, thanks, agree with your views. Incidentally I did investigate steel rims, but their price was nearly as much as the alloys. Our other 'main' car is an EV with steel rims and the wheel trims actually look pretty good. And if I kerb the wheel, no biggie, a £10 wheel trim if I think the damage warrants it. On the YC, with balloon tyres, less likely to scrape the kerb anyway

On a recent Eurotunnel trip, I followed a UK-reg Audi Q8 with enormous rims and rubber band tyres, trying and failing not to rub up against the 'kerbs' in the train carriage. Ouch. Don't think those carriages were designed for monster trucks

[Rhymes with Paris]

Hmm, I reckon my 22" spinners backlit with purple LEDs look a treat on the Sunday night meet at McDonald's car park.

Okay, I had to trim the wheel arches a bit with an angle grinder, and it's like being rattled around in biscuit tin , but so kewl.

 

[SinglePointSafety]

5 minutes ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

22" spinners backlit with purple LEDs

Damnation Paul, I now look at my wheels and just think of what I could have opted for....

[anchorman]

The day will come when somebody puts 22s on a Cross and slams it to the deck.   Sacrilege I say but I come from an era where tattoos were for sailors and grass was for mowing.  Rap music?  A Cross should be rigged to explode if someone plays that din in one.  

[Mojo1010]

My take is the 18" on the YC looks good, only problem is the profile is a bit low so comfort suffer. Similarly the Yaris excel is on 17" and looks good, again let down by low profile sidewall. Think when I can be bother I might just give a feedback to toyota on what I think/want regarding this aspect of their vehicles. 

[SinglePointSafety]

Just now, anchorman said:

Rap music?  A Cross should be rigged to explode if someone plays that din in one.  

Oh dear, best remove Buju Banton, Jay-Z, Snoop Dogg and Dr Dre from my Spotify list.....

[Rhymes with Paris]

1 minute ago, SinglePointSafety said:

Damnation Paul, I now look at my wheels and just think of what I could have opted for....

There is a downside to these kind of mods, when I put base bins in replacing the rear seats and filling the boot space,it did collapse the rear suspension.

But no problem, I can soon add air ride bounce to counteract that effect.

Well I can after a lot of welding anyway.

[anchorman]

You lot are all talking in riddles.  Start again from I changed my wheels 🙄

[Rhymes with Paris]

Riddles Don ?

Nah, get down with the vibe and get a passion for the fashion.

(The truth is when I was young and daft I got some wider 6j  I think, wheels for my 105e, and then realised that the tyres were twice the price.)

[Cyker]

... and that's the other reason I dropped to 15s - £50-70 vs £120-£170 on the 17s!   

 

2 hours ago, SinglePointSafety said:

Cyker, interesting, thanks, agree with your views. Incidentally I did investigate steel rims, but their price was nearly as much as the alloys.

Really??? My 15s were from Toyota and they only cost something like £40-50 each!!   I was considering alloys but they seemed to start around £150+, and the Toyota ones were something like £300... *each*  

But yes, I agree about the wheel trims being good sacrificial wheel guards  Although I made a big mistake there as I didn't think to exclude them from the quote, and it turns out the Toyota ones cost nearly as much as the rims!  

I would have been happy with some cheapo Halfords ones too... could have used my TOC discount card too!!!  

 

 

 

[Jimota]

Looks OK to me.  

[RobertR]

About the bigger rims, they also provide better handling. When I take my cross from the dealer, the car has pretty high tire pressure, something about 2.8 front and 2.6 back, and the label on the car chassis says 2.2 front, 2.0 back( bars ). I drop the pressure to the recommended values and the car was immediately softer. I have R18s on my cross and like how they look very much, and if you drive BMW 3series before for some years as I do, the comfort of those 18s is very acceptable for me. I also will do this week, tire swap from summer tires (that came with the car) to the Continental all seasons, so expected to be softer even more.

But totally agree with you guys, the policy that higher trim means you also get bigger wheels, that's so stupid. I know the car is sexier on bigger wheels and everything, but get us at least a choice to go for smaller wheels.

[TonyHSD]

On 1/15/2023 at 4:31 PM, SinglePointSafety said:

This is a bit of a long post, so for the TL:DR folk (not that I blame you one bit) the summary is that I changed the 18-inch wheels on my YC Excel, to 3rd-party 16-inch wheels with all-season tyres. Result is significant reduction in road noise, better cushioning against our local abysmal roads and thus better bump absorption

Right....

For reasons of no interest to anyone else, I need to have winter or all-season tyres available for the car. Various solutions - extra set of wheels (steel or alloy) with appropriate tyres, swap with original wheels when required. Or fit winter tyres to existing wheels and get local tyre place to store summer tyres and do the swap twice a year. Or fit all-season tyres to existing wheels, keep or sell the factory-fit Falken tyres. Lots of options, various costs, taking into account need to transfer the TPMS valves or buy another set, convenience to me etc etc. Your circumstances are likely different to mine, so what follows is my solution, may not be best for you. I'm just telling you what I did and hope that the information might be of some use/interest. My choice also reflects the truly atrocious roads where I live: council has pretty much given up repairs outside the cities and big towns, so it's not going to improve any time soon....

I looked at the cost of all-season tyres for the varying possible wheel sizes. For the 16-inch wheels, the 'official' size is 205/65, but it's perfectly legal to fit 215/65, which is a much more common size (205/65 is basically a van tyre) and hence cheaper tyres/more choice. I confirmed this change with insurance company, my dealer and the wheel manufacturer - see also https://www.willtheyfit.com/. A deciding factor was that for all-season tyres 215/65-16 vs 215/50-18, the former were about £50-70 cheaper (these prices may vary according to time of year, availability etc). Another factor is that 3rd-party wheels are hugely cheaper (~£100 each) than Toyota's (~£450). If you hit a pothole and wreck a wheel, good luck getting any £££ from the council

I opted for 5-spoke Alutec Grip 16-inch 6.5J (ie matching official Toyota size) from Performance Alloys https://www.performancealloys.com/ who were extremely helpful in ensuring that the wheels did indeed fit (including the offset, the 'ET' value), their prices are good and tech support was rapid and helpful. Either they or Alutec also included the correct wheels bolts (as well as centering rings): Toyota use flat washer type nuts, most alloys have 60-degree head angle nuts, so reusing Toyota nuts isn't possible. Also meant that I needed to buy a set of locking wheel nuts, my local Halfords sold me McGard 24212SU nuts (Performance Alloys also sell them)

Since I was visiting Reading, I got the work done there (JustTyres). They were happy to swap the TPMS valves to the new rims, I opted for Goodyear Vector 4-seasons Gen3 based on price, availability, reviews. I can confirm that with a bit of care, the original wheels/tyres will indeed fit in the back of the YC, seats down of course. Re-tracing my route home, the difference in ride was very, very noticeable - the 'balloon' tyres really take the edge off the scarred roads. Bonus is the (expected) significant reduction in road noise and the filtering out of the 'buzz' from the road texture - even SWMBO noticed the change (!). No discernible fuel economy penalty, stats so far suggest a slight improvement, but that could be spurious. Really very pleased with the outcome

The original wheels/tyres are now happy and warm in my garage. As with a previous car, when I sell, I'll put the originals back on (of course) and sell the 3rd-party wheels/tyres, that was very successful last time and someone in the wilds of Scotland is the proud owner of some Borbet wheels with Michelin CC+ on them

Here are some photos: if you think the new wheels/tyres are fugly, I respect that, but I don't care - I have the aesthetic sensitivity of a !Removed! stormtrooper (and also the appearance, according to SWMBO, harsh but fair). When I took the car to the dealer to have a Noco lead attached to the 12V battery, both the salesperson and technician nodded approvingly, the latter said "Yeah mate, roads round here, you need all the rubber you can get". Indeed

My time in the EU and elsewhere tells me that big wheels with low-profile tyres are a much more common affectation in the UK, despite their roads (generally) being in a lot better condition than ours

How could I missed this post.
You had done a great job with this new wheels and tyres. 🛞👌 Honestly the car look even better and more off road than before, very similar to Mitsubishi pinin, one of my favourite small real suv from the past.
Enjoy softer and and quieter drive plus excellent grip.
I also converted my car to a smaller wheels, same spec wheels as yours but different tyre sizes and couldn’t be happier, drives superb 👍

[SinglePointSafety]

Thanks Tony, that's a very nice response, much appreciated. I've driven the car this morning - there's loads of icy water and slush around, new potholes appearing and existing ones growing, so the big all-season tyres are doing their thing

[anchorman]

2 hours ago, SinglePointSafety said:

Thanks Tony, that's a very nice response, much appreciated. I've driven the car this morning - there's loads of icy water and slush around, new potholes appearing and existing ones growing, so the big all-season tyres are doing their thing

I had 17 winters on my Mazda that came with 19s.  Bit of a pain changing them twice a year but another benefit in my opinion was that if it did catch a hidden in the snow curb there was less chance of damaging the rim.