Parasitic battery drainage or just lack of use? Aygo 2010

[Gerg]

On 1/31/2023 at 6:13 PM, Laura_ said:

so I might still get a multimeter to test this theory.

Did you get around to buying a multimeter in the end?

I still wonder about an insurance-fitted 'black box' being behind this.

Maybe this might help check:

A friend had a Fiat Panda which, for the four years he had it, was never good at holding it's Battery charge (not as bad as yours though).  He was inside the dash, fault finding for a different reason, sure enough, he found an unmarked module had been custom-fitted there.  The situation improved after he removed it.

[Laura_]

29 minutes ago, fossyant said:

When the car has been off a while, check if the alternator is warm, or you can hear a slight buzz coming from it.

Thanks @Fossyant, I'll check that.

@Gerg, I'm toying up between buying a multimeter or just taking it to a garage. I don't have a black box or anything else additional that could be drawing power. But my standard fitted stereo and bluetooth flash intermittently when the car is in use, and the connection to the stereo interface sometimes turns off until I push the stereo unit back, and the interface then reappears. So it seems like there's a dodgy connection there, whether it's related or not.
 

2 minutes ago, Gerg said:

Did you get around to buying a multimeter in the end?

I still wonder about an insurance-fitted 'black box' being behind this.

Maybe this might help check:

A friend had a Fiat Panda which, for the four years he had it, was never good at holding it's battery charge (not as bad as yours though).  He was inside the dash for a different reason, sure enough, he found an unmarked module had been custom-fitted there.  The situation improved after he removed it.

 

[Gerg]

1 hour ago, Laura_ said:

I don't have a black box or anything else additional that could be drawing power.

This bloke didn't know his car was fitted with a black box, he'd 'inherited' it when he bought the car secondhand, it'd been fitted for a previous owner.

 

1 hour ago, Laura_ said:

But my standard fitted stereo and bluetooth flash intermittently when the car is in use, and the connection to the stereo interface sometimes turns off until I push the stereo unit back, and the interface then reappears. So it seems like there's a dodgy connection there, whether it's related or not.

I think this is a very strong contender too!  Perhaps you know, even when the radio is off and not able to be switched on (ignition key switch off), then it is still permanently connected to a live 12V power feed.  The radio is certainly able to draw power if something internally has gone wrong.

As an example, many years back, plenty of VW cars were doing exactly as your car is. It turned out to be a fault with the car's CD player, it was trying to load a CD, even when there wasn't one inserted - a faulty micro switch inside.

This problem is dragging on a bit for you; if you are ever in the area of Central Bedfordshire, then I could check the parasitic drain (at that time) for you, as I have a clamp-on current meter - simple and no dismantling required.  But you'd have to leave the car parked up for 20-30 minutes before hand for everything electronic to have 'gone to sleep'.

After that check showing, almost certainly, a parasitic drain, I would look to extract fuses until it it went away, starting with the radio!  But this can be time-consuming, the car's systems, if inadvertently 'woken-up', have to be allowed to go to sleep again; another 20 - 30 minute wait.

Alternatively, you could buy your dad one of these, it's what I use: 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/UT210E-Current-Meters-Capacitance-Tester/dp/B00O1Q2HOQ

(Note: the Amazon description is not correct at the moment.  It's a UNI-T UT210E that is the useful tool.  But the item linked to is the correct one).

Sadly, the price has shot up from the £30 that I paid 6 years ago.

You don't need one of these (DC current clamp meter), but it makes for a much easier, safer time of it.

 

 

[Laura_]

3 hours ago, Gerg said:

This bloke didn't know his car was fitted with a black box, he'd 'inherited' it when he bought the car secondhand, it'd been fitted for a previous owner.

 

I think this is a very strong contender too!  Perhaps you know, even when the radio is off and not able to be switched on (ignition key switch off), then it is still permanently connected to a live 12V power feed.  The radio is certainly able to draw power if something internally has gone wrong.

As an example, many years back, plenty of VW cars were doing exactly as your car is. It turned out to be a fault with the car's CD player, it was trying to load a CD, even when there wasn't one inserted - a faulty micro switch inside.

This problem is dragging on a bit for you; if you are ever in the area of Central Bedfordshire, then I could check the parasitic drain (at that time) for you, as I have a clamp-on current meter - simple and no dismantling required.  But you'd have to leave the car parked up for 20-30 minutes before hand for everything electronic to have 'gone to sleep'.

After that check showing, almost certainly, a parasitic drain, I would look to extract fuses until it it went away, starting with the radio!  But this can be time-consuming, the car's systems, if inadvertently 'woken-up', have to be allowed to go to sleep again; another 20 - 30 minute wait.

Alternatively, you could buy your dad one of these, it's what I use: 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/UT210E-Current-Meters-Capacitance-Tester/dp/B00O1Q2HOQ

(Note: the Amazon description is not correct at the moment.  It's a UNI-T UT210E that is the useful tool.  But the item linked to is the correct one).

Sadly, the price has shot up from the £30 that I paid 6 years ago.

You don't need one of these (DC current clamp meter), but it makes for a much easier, safer time of it.

 

 

Oh that's interesting that he didn't know it was there! Considering the car and Battery had been fine for the 10 years I've owned it I'm assuming there isn't one but will check.

Thanks very much for your advice and kind offer to check the drain, sadly I'm a little too far away but I've booked it into a garage so fingers crosssed I'll have an answer and a fix.

[haelewyn]

Was thinking about this subject when Diagnose Dan came by today  🙂

[Laura_]

On 4/4/2023 at 4:51 PM, haelewyn said:

Was thinking about this subject when Diagnose Dan came by today  🙂

The video is so interesting, especially the use of the thermal camera! Good to know too that you can use the multimeter on the actual fuses rather than just pulling them one by one.

[sylwia_]

Hi @Laura_

I am wondering if you had find the cause of the issue? I am experiencing the same thing with my aygo which is similarly to yours not use very often. 

I would really appreciate your reply.

[fossyant]

How old is the Battery ?  

[sylwia_]

2 years old but I changed it to new one - car was fine for 2 days (10-15 miles done in each day) and did not want to start at third day. Seems very similar issue to Laura's case so wondering what her mechanic found.

[Laura_]

15 hours ago, sylwia_ said:

Hi @Laura_

I am wondering if you had find the cause of the issue? I am experiencing the same thing with my aygo which is similarly to yours not use very often. 

I would really appreciate your reply.

 

3 minutes ago, sylwia_ said:

2 years old but I changed it to new one - car was fine for 2 days (10-15 miles done in each day) and did not want to start at third day. Seems very similar issue to Laura's case so wondering what her mechanic found.

Hi Sylwia, sorry to hear you're having a similar issue. My mechanic didn't really find very much, he did a very quick test for parasitic drain. His only suggestion was to make sure I take the CD out of the stereo unit when parking up, just incase that's activating the stereo and therefore draining the Battery. The stereo digital display does still keep going blank intermittently until I push the whole unit in a few times, so I do think that might have something to do with the problem.

Having said that, I haven't left the car for more than 5 days since the Battery last died so I haven't had the chance to test the issue. But I'm sure your Battery should be lasting more than 2-3 days, that does seem strange. Hope you find a fix!

[TonyHSD]

On 4/4/2023 at 4:51 PM, haelewyn said:

Was thinking about this subject when Diagnose Dan came by today  🙂

This video its absolute treasure 👌 

Thanks a lot for sharing. 👍

[Laura_]

Hi everyone, just a quick update and yet another question if you don't mind:

The car had been fine all summer and then last month (during the really cold spell) I left it 6 days whilst on holiday, and of course, the Battery was flat. Jump started it, drove it for an hour+ 2 days in a row. Left it 2 days, did a short 20 min journey, left it a further 2 days and it was basically flat again - electrics turned on but engine didn't (not sure if relevant, but the CD player made a sound, as if reading a disc, but with no disc inside it). Jump started it again.

I hadn't left it more than 3-4 days all summer, so I can't tell if it was just the longer time between use, or if it was that plus the cold weather. So I'll look to investigate the parasitic drain again. But my new question is; since then, there's a quietish squeal when I accelerate, which I think disappears after a while when warmed up. So I'm guessing it needs a new alternator belt?

I read another forum reply that said "The alternator has an extra load cos its putting back into the Battery what was needed for a cold start. Once the Battery is back to full charge the sqeaking will stop, starting with a hot engine does not put as much load on the Battery ."

I wanted to ask if the two issues are possibly linked at all? Would fixing the battery issue fix the alternator issue, or do I likely need to fix both?

Thanks again!

[Roy124]

Laura, if your Battery is original it doesn't owe you any money.  I think you already know the answer; a flat Battery, periods of non-use, and colder weather

  Combined,  these probably hammered the Battery.

[Derek.w]

I go for a new Battery and have the mechanic check thats its receving a charge from the alternator or you can plug in a voltmeter to the accessory socket and check that its charging yourself then decide thats you also have a alternator problem.

[Laura_]

On 11/10/2023 at 9:35 PM, Roy124 said:

Laura, if your battery is original it doesn't owe you any money.  I think you already know the answer; a flat battery, periods of non-use, and colder weather

  Combined,  these probably hammered the battery.

Thanks Roy and Derek. The Battery was new in January but agreed, the periods of non-use and cold (and possibly the alternator) have done for it. I'll definitely take it to a garage asap. But I think I'll need to look into a new car soon, so I'm reluctant to throw any more money at the problem.

A conundrum right now though, if anyone can advise please? I last drove it this Tuesday, went to start it today and the electrics turn on but the engine won't. So one day of non-use. I have covid so don't really want to drive it very far but do I a) jump start it and take it for a very short spin while it still has some charge, or b) wait until Saturday when the Battery will almost certainly be completely flat, jump start it then and take it for a much longer drive?

Thank you again in advance.

[haelewyn]

If you need / would like to drive your car now : choose A.

And keep it running for a while.

If you choose A or B : in both cases your Battery will be very empty by Saturday.

So what's the worst that can happen..

Maybe this is a car you can keep for a while longer, just jump start it as long as that seems possible to do and as long as it keeps driving after the jump start.

[Laura_]

8 minutes ago, haelewyn said:

If you need / would like to drive your car now : choose A.

And keep it running for a while.

If you choose A or B : in both cases your battery will be very empty by Saturday.

So what's the worst that can happen..

Maybe this is a car you can keep for a while longer, just jump start it as long as that seems possible to do and as long as it keeps driving after the jump start.

Thanks Ivan, that's really helpful, appreciate it! In that case I'll wait until I have the time on Saturday.

[pjackson]

Just to give the benefit of my similar experience of a 2010 AYGO Blue. Battery wouldn’t hold a charge for more than a couple of days. Tried a variety of things including a new Battery, nothing worked. In the end pulled out the wiring harness for the added bluetooth device. It piggybacks to the 2 large ports on the back of the radio. Put the original 2 large plugs back in to the radio, you can also pull out the small plug under the 2 large plugs completely. Short story is that it seems to work and Battery lasts a lot better. I have added a bluetooth battery monitor on the battery, for £20, so it can be monitored 24 hours a day from an app in the comfort of your home, so no need for multimeter. Voltage hardly drops.

[haelewyn]

There is still the idea of installing a main "kill switch" which will not allow current to get lost.

In Laura's case, if the Battery is dead, not useful. Also cause she is selling the car soon probably.

I have known a guy with an old bmw who just had a small spanner and disconnected / connected the Battery every time he wasn't using the car for several days.

Bad for radio presets. But it's a choice over jumpstarting and draining the Battery many times. 

[Laura_]

2 hours ago, pjackson said:

Just to give the benefit of my similar experience of a 2010 AYGO Blue. Battery wouldn’t hold a charge for more than a couple of days. Tried a variety of things including a new battery, nothing worked. In the end pulled out the wiring harness for the added Bluetooth device. It piggybacks to the 2 large ports on the back of the radio. Put the original 2 large plugs back in to the radio, you can also pull out the small plug under the 2 large plugs completely. Short story is that it seems to work and battery lasts a lot better. I have added a Bluetooth battery monitor on the battery, for £20, so it can be monitored 24 hours a day from an app in the comfort of your home, so no need for multimeter. Voltage hardly drops.

Hi pjackson, thank you - I'm convinced that mine has the same bluetooth drainage problem (or possibly the whole radio unit, since that and the bluetooth flash/go blank intermittently). I found the guide to the wiring from another thread so might try to have a go at disconnecting myself tomorrow, or will ask a mechanic to do it.

The Battery monitor sounds like a great idea.

[Laura_]

1 hour ago, haelewyn said:

There is still the idea of installing a main "kill switch" which will not allow current to get lost.

In Laura's case, if the battery is dead, not useful. Also cause she is selling the car soon probably.

I have known a guy with an old bmw who just had a small spanner and disconnected / connected the battery every time he wasn't using the car for several days.

Bad for radio presets. But it's a choice over jumpstarting and draining the battery many times. 

Hi Ivan, that's a great idea too, thanks. I've been reading about how just disconnecting the negative terminal when not using the car can work.

[pjackson]

It’s a fairly simple 5 minute job. I had the wiring diagram too. Just trace the wires back visually along the loom. The piggybacked plugs are obviously the same to plug back in to the radio.

[Mooly]

4 hours ago, haelewyn said:

There is still the idea of installing a main "kill switch" which will not allow current to get lost.

The problem with 'modern' cars is that the ECU will loose the long term learned values for optimum running of the engine if you disconnect the 12 volt Battery. The result is it can start and run badly for several miles following a disconnect until the ECU relearns the optimum settings. It carries on 'learning' and optimising all the time from then on.

 

[haelewyn]

Do you expect it to become a problem on (f.e.) a 2010 aygo ?

Wouldn't a completely empty Battery cause the same problem ?

[Mooly]

A 2010 model isn't really that ancient technology wise and it is such things as the idle speed setting would be lost. 

An empty Battery in the majority of cases simply sees a low resting voltage of say 10 or 11 volts sag dramatically as the starter is operated but even a very low voltage is enough to keep the ECU powered and prevent it doing a global reset of everything.