PHEV reduced power in hybrid mode until warmed up?

[Nick72]

So I thought I was imagining this for a while but now I'm pretty certain.

When I switch to hybrid mode from EV the full ICE contribution to the power (front wheels) is limited for the first few minutes until the engine is, presumably, warmed up. At a guess, foot down, it feels more like about 240hp rather than over 300.

Anyone else noticed this?

Tried it a few times now and it is definitely underpowered. I don't get the same roar and power until warmed up. Clearly a good thing but had me scratching my head for a while.

[TonyHSD]

I think that’s normal and applies to all cars with ice. Generally speaking it is not a good idea to turn into hv mode and floor it. Even standard Toyota hybrids in the first few minutes the engine works as generator and does not propel the car unless fully pushed or at higher speeds 40Mph +. I also noticed that behaviour in other petrol only cars. 👍

[Nick72]

37 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

I think that’s normal and applies to all cars with ice. Generally speaking it is not a good idea to turn into hv mode and floor it. Even standard Toyota hybrids in the first few minutes the engine works as generator and does not propel the car unless fully pushed or at higher speeds 40Mph +. I also noticed that behaviour in other petrol only cars. 👍

Never noticed such a big difference in my other cars so I'm thinking some kind of software control here perhaps.

If it's just working as a generator then that's about 230hp from the two electric motors which feels about what I was estimating. So perhaps there's no ICE mechanical drive assist at the front until warmed up?

[TonyHSD]

43 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

Never noticed such a big difference in my other cars so I'm thinking some kind of software control here perhaps.

If it's just working as a generator then that's about 230hp from the two electric motors which feels about what I was estimating. So perhaps there's no ICE mechanical drive assist at the front until warmed up?

Can be. I have never driven car like yours and can’t comment any further but the standard hybrids do that all the time and you can even see how the Battery gets depleted quickly. 

[forkingabout]

Maybe Toyota could bring back the yellow choke light from days of old for the warm up cycle 🤔

Could be renamed the not ready to thrash it light 🤣

[Flatcoat]

I haven’t noticed it but then the mechanical sympathy in me, I would never try and gun a cold engine, quick way to wrecking it. Sounds like Toyota protecting drivers from a big bill and Toyota from a warranty claim. Now we know why Toyota are reliable and long lasting. However never knowingly had such built in protection in an ICE. 

[ernieb]

37 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

I haven’t noticed it but then the mechanical sympathy in me, I would never try and gun a cold engine, quick way to wrecking it. Sounds like Toyota protecting drivers from a big bill and Toyota from a warranty claim. Now we know why Toyota are reliable and long lasting. However never knowingly had such built in protection in an ICE. 

I tend to agree, I was brought up on engines that needed time to get warm before hitting the throttle and in fact if you did the engine would more than likely just cough a lot rather than accelerate. I also agree that Toyota being Toyota would be super careful to give the ICE the best possible chance of getting to the operational temperatures etc. before giving of it's best.

[nlee]

Can't say I've ever noticed, the transition from EV to HEV has been seem less. In fact I hardly ever notice it until I see the dash display has changed from m/kWh to mpg. Then again, I probably haven't being at over 200 bhp when it's changed over.

One observation though, I thought to get the max >300 bhp, the ICE and motors had to work together, so the ICE would have to kick in and could be a cold start?

[Roy124]

The Car Care Nut had a good talk on the Corolla startup heating/coolant system.  Hot water circulation was restricted to those parts where faster warm up would benefit economy.  Cabin heating was not one😁. 

Some interesting factors at play here. 

If you use preconditioning before going out you will have a nice comforty cabin.  To achieve this the ICE will be run to provide that heat.  It will knock your MPG but mean you have a warm engine when you start to drive. 

Your choice, shirt sleeves and welly or wrap up and ease the car until warmed up. 

I have a problem with the latter.  It is about half a mile until I join a thundering dual carriageway.  If lucky I can accelerate gently.  Frequently a truck will let me out and I have to hit the gas to avoid getting hit. 

[nlee]

1 hour ago, Roy124 said:

If you use preconditioning before going out you will have a nice comforty cabin.  To achieve this the ICE will be run to provide that heat.

Not for the PHEV, the pre-con is run from the traction Battery, even if the front windscreen defrost option is selected (when the app works!)

[Flatcoat]

However if the car is plugged in it will in effect keep the traction Battery topped up. 

[Nick72]

12 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

I haven’t noticed it but then the mechanical sympathy in me, I would never try and gun a cold engine, quick way to wrecking it. Sounds like Toyota protecting drivers from a big bill and Toyota from a warranty claim. Now we know why Toyota are reliable and long lasting. However never knowingly had such built in protection in an ICE. 

True but like others I'm less than 1 minute from the motorway so start up n go. If we haven't engineered solutions to cope with that we are all doomed. But I think Toyota has with the apparent initial mechanical power restrictions?

[Nick72]

13 hours ago, forkingabout said:

Maybe Toyota could bring back the yellow choke light from days of old for the warm up cycle 🤔

Could be renamed the not ready to thrash it light 🤣

Don't tempt them. They'll add it to the 1985 video camera and long play VHS quality reversing cam!

[Nick72]

11 hours ago, nlee said:

Can't say I've ever noticed, the transition from EV to HEV has been seem less. In fact I hardly ever notice it until I see the dash display has changed from m/kWh to mpg. Then again, I probably haven't being at over 200 bhp when it's changed over.

One observation though, I thought to get the max >300 bhp, the ICE and motors had to work together, so the ICE would have to kick in and could be a cold start?

I think that's it. 300hp is 2 motors plus ICE mechanical assist on the front wheels. About 54hp rear motor, 175hp front motor, rest from mechanical drive from ICE at the front. 

But what I've noticed from cold is you don't get close to 300hp. More like 230 to 240hp. Until after a few minutes.

[AJones]

You get something similar with the Prius PHEV, engine is running but the accelerator response and engine sounds are a bit different until it's been running a little while.

I'd seen a suggestion that it was to minimise pollution, exhaust catalysts don't work when cold, so it gives a bit of time at low engine power to warm up the catalyst so it's functioning before full engine power is made available. 

[Flatcoat]

24 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

Don't tempt them. They'll add it to the 1985 video camera and long play VHS quality reversing cam!

😂😂

[Flatcoat]

2 minutes ago, AJones said:

You get something similar with the Prius PHEV, engine is running but the accelerator response and engine sounds are a bit different until it's been running a little while.

I'd seen a suggestion that it was to minimise pollution, exhaust catalysts don't work when cold, so it gives a bit of time at low engine power to warm up the catalyst so it's functioning before full engine power is made available. 

That actually has some logic to it.