Leaking panoramic roof on 2015 Yaris Sport

[lqx913]

My panoramic roof is leaking water badly. 

I have just been quoted in excess of GBP3K by a Toyota main dealer to replace and repair the water damage caused by defective seals on my panoramic roof.  Toyota's response is unhelpful and refers back to the 5 year warranty which would not cover bodywork so is a complete red herring. I am aghast that a panoramic sunroof leaks after only 6 years and Toyota are taking no responsibility for what is clearly (to my mind) a manufacturing defect.

There is no damage to the glass.  It is the seals that have deteriorated. I have had the car from new and done everything according to Toyota's recommendations. That I should be left with a large bill for something that isn't covered by insurance or by a manufacturer's warranty is completely unacceptable.

Has anyone else had a problem like this and what was your experience? Any recommendations?

[Hybrid21]

Hi lqx913,  has your car always been serviced at Toyota dealer ? Has the roof been leaking for a long time causing damage to interior ?

 

[DerekHa]

Have just come across your awful situation iqx913!☹️.

This is likely to be an expensive and drawn out experience for you to get resolved!

I would have thought that Toyota have some responsibilty over the failed seals but reading through some results via google it seems you have to take this issue back the supplying dealer as your contract is/was with them!

Take a read of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, a link to an article by WhatCar?:

https://www.whatcar.com/news/your-legal-rights-if-something-goes-wrong-with-your-car/n3307

I would think there are avenues you can persue within the scope of the Act against the dealer.

If that proves no good there is the Small Claims Court proceedure. Used to be that the sums you could claim there were relatively small but it seems the goal posts have been moved and claims of up to £10k can be made against the other party.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/

None of this will get you instant resolution and will not be whatt you want to hear or have to do. Sometimes you have stamp your feet hard dig in and take these people on head on!

Long ago I used the Small Claims Court proceedure against a motor insurance company, following an accident, who refused to settle a claim I made against their driver., they viewed it as what was called knock for knock Wouldn't budge despite me taking out the claim but a week before the hearing was due to be heard they settled in full. Small Claims are something you can issue against the other party.

Seeking advice from CAB or a Solicitor if you can't get the dealer to do the right thing is likely your only recourse. Sounds awful in this day and age and with a company with the reputation of Toyota isn't good.

Hope you get this resolved successfully.

[FROSTYBALLS]

3 hours ago, lqx913 said:

I am aghast that a panoramic sunroof leaks after only 6 years

A car bought new in 2015 (as per the topic title and your profile) is in it's 8th year - it isn't 6 years old. So it is actually two years plus outside of the manufacturers warranty.

[anchorman]

28 minutes ago, DerekHa said:

Have just come across your awful situation iqx913!☹️.

This is likely to be an expensive and drawn out experience for you to get resolved!

I would have thought that Toyota have some responsibilty over the failed seals but reading through some results via google it seems you have to take this issue back the supplying dealer as your contract is/was with them!

Take a read of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, a link to an article by WhatCar?:

https://www.whatcar.com/news/your-legal-rights-if-something-goes-wrong-with-your-car/n3307

I would think there are avenues you can persue within the scope of the Act against the dealer.

If that proves no good there is the Small Claims Court proceedure. Used to be that the sums you could claim there were relatively small but it seems the goal posts have been moved and claims of up to £10k can be made against the other party.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/

None of this will get you instant resolution and will not be whatt you want to hear or have to do. Sometimes you have stamp your feet hard dig in and take these people on head on!

Long ago I used the Small Claims Court proceedure against a motor insurance company, following an accident, who refused to settle a claim I made against their driver., they viewed it as what was called knock for knock Wouldn't budge despite me taking out the claim but a week before the hearing was due to be heard they settled in full. Small Claims are something you can issue against the other party.

Seeking advice from CAB or a Solicitor if you can't get the dealer to do the right thing is likely your only recourse. Sounds awful in this day and age and with a company with the reputation of Toyota isn't good.

Hope you get this resolved successfully.

Oh terrible isn’t it.  Before you wade in with your entitlements, you don’t know a thing about the cars damage or service records.  People want new car warranty on old cars these days.  Has this car had every service and every body inspection done at a Toyota Dealer? Has it ever had a wash or has it sat turning green under trees.  There are a lot of questions that you don’t know the answers to.  

[anchorman]

3 hours ago, lqx913 said:

My panoramic roof is leaking water badly. 

I have just been quoted in excess of GBP3K by a Toyota main dealer to replace and repair the water damage caused by defective seals on my panoramic roof.  Toyota's response is unhelpful and refers back to the 5 year warranty which would not cover bodywork so is a complete red herring. I am aghast that a panoramic sunroof leaks after only 6 years and Toyota are taking no responsibility for what is clearly (to my mind) a manufacturing defect.

There is no damage to the glass.  It is the seals that have deteriorated. I have had the car from new and done everything according to Toyota's recommendations. That I should be left with a large bill for something that isn't covered by insurance or by a manufacturer's warranty is completely unacceptable.

Has anyone else had a problem like this and what was your experience? Any recommendations?

Have you had it from new?  If not what age did you buy it and where did you buy it from?  Has it ever been in an accident or had any bodywork done?   Has it got a full dealer service history?  What mileage has it done?  Does it get parked in a garage or in the street?  

[DerekHa]

14 minutes ago, anchorman said:

There is no damage to the glass.  It is the seals that have deteriorated. I have had the car from new and done everything according to Toyota's recommendations.

The OP clearly states he's had the vehicle from new and has complied with Toyota's recommendations.

[anchorman]

1 minute ago, DerekHa said:

The OP clearly states he's had the vehicle from new and has complied with Toyota's recommendations.

Quite right thanks.  The other questions need answering.  

[DerekHa]

Yes your right Don those other questions do need to be addressed when they get to respond.

[tnct]

Normally the seal is not design to stop water coming in, there is 4 drain hole to expel water, have you try cleaning the drain hose like below 2 video?  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0hEuRqsqcA
 

 

[anchorman]

28 minutes ago, tnct said:

Normally the seal is not design to stop water coming in, there is 4 drain hole to expel water, have you try cleaning the drain hose like below 2 video?  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0hEuRqsqcA
 

 

That’s a sunroof not a pan roof.  

[lqx913]

2 hours ago, anchorman said:

Have you had it from new?  If not what age did you buy it and where did you buy it from?  Has it ever been in an accident or had any bodywork done?   Has it got a full dealer service history?  What mileage has it done?  Does it get parked in a garage or in the street?  

Thanks for your response and for the helpful links you have provided.

I've had it from new.  I bought it from a garage in the north of England but it has been serviced by a Toyota main dealer for 5 years and outside the network for the last 2.  There is no maintenance needed for a fixed panel in a car so I can't see how a service would be relevant.  It's parked in a driveway outside my house and has done 55K miles.  The roof does not open it was factory fitted; glued in I understand. I first noticed mould in the car in 2021 but thought one of the grandchildren may have left a rear window open.  The problem has got worse and worse until I discovered significant amounts of water in the rear footwells a couple of months ago.  Prior to that there was no indication (apart from the mould) that it was leaking water.  A Toyota main dealer has carried out a water test and confirmed that the roof is leaking in 2 places.  We tried to seal the roof with tape to prevent further damage but some damage has been done to some electrics the garage are reporting so the costs keep mounting and mounting.... I will seek consumer advice but had hoped that Toyota would do the decent thing and foot the bill or at least a major part of it.

[anchorman]

You’ve not answered whether it has ever been in an accident of any kind.   So you had it serviced by toyota inside the warranty then you went elsewhere but now you’ve got a snag you want them to honour it, in fact aghast they won’t?  On each service they examine the car for corrosion and body damage so it’s missed two.  If I was service manager assessing your claim I’d look to see if it had any bumps because even a relatively light one can rupture a seal.  I’d check all the wheels and tyres to see if there was any damage because curb damage can also transmit a rupture.  You can jump on the entitlement bandwagon with the above but you run a somewhere between 7 and 8 year old Yaris and you are aghast that they won’t pay all or some of it when you abandoned them at 5 years.   See how you get on with Ford, any German brand or Vauxhall at 3 years and 1 day.

[lqx913]

28 minutes ago, anchorman said:

You’ve not answered whether it has ever been in an accident of any kind.   So you had it serviced by toyota inside the warranty then you went elsewhere but now you’ve got a snag you want them to honour it, in fact aghast they won’t?  On each service they examine the car for corrosion and body damage so it’s missed two.  If I was service manager assessing your claim I’d look to see if it had any bumps because even a relatively light one can rupture a seal.  I’d check all the wheels and tyres to see if there was any damage because curb damage can also transmit a rupture.  You can jump on the entitlement bandwagon with the above but you run a somewhere between 7 and 8 year old Yaris and you are aghast that they won’t pay all or some of it when you abandoned them at 5 years.   See how you get on with Ford, any German brand or Vauxhall at 3 years and 1 day.

The car has never been in an accident, nor has the windscreen been replaced. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

As the car is well outside the new car warranty, presumably you're hoping for some sort of goodwill contribution from Toyota.

However, goodwill works both ways. The manufacturer may show goodwill by helping out with out of warranty repairs. You show goodwill by continuing to have the car serviced within the manufacturers dealer network.

Bear in mind that goodwill may only be a contribution towards costs - not the full cost.

However, as the car has been serviced outside the Toyota dealer network, why should Toyota provide any goodwill to you?

[anchorman]

My car will depreciate more than 3k in the first year so what it’s cost you in 8 isn’t bad.  I get your frustration at the leak but it’s not that bad.   There are cars that would have you on the street in repair costs.  Have you tried any of the windscreen places like autoglass?  

[Jimota]

Is inspection of the panoramic roof part of the service schedule?  I don’t know as I’ve never had one.  If it is part of the service then it would make sense to stay with Toyota as you would have some degree of protection.  Unfortunately, when you leave a manufacturers service agreement and go independent, things become more difficult.  Every new car that I’ve purchased has always been protected by regular servicing from the approved manufacturer dealership.  Yes, it’s usually more expensive but I prefer to have the enhanced protection.

Car window seals sometimes fail after a number of years and it would be difficult to prove it was a manufacturers fault rather than a gradual deterioration of the adhesive/sealant due to weather or other contributory factors.  Panoramic roofs would also fall into that category.  I sympathise with Iqx913 but I would be very surprised if Toyota accept any responsibility in this instance.

[lqx913]

On 1/18/2023 at 7:07 PM, Jimota said:

Is inspection of the panoramic roof part of the service schedule?  I don’t know as I’ve never had one.  If it is part of the service then it would make sense to stay with Toyota as you would have some degree of protection.  Unfortunately, when you leave a manufacturers service agreement and go independent, things become more difficult.  Every new car that I’ve purchased has always been protected by regular servicing from the approved manufacturer dealership.  Yes, it’s usually more expensive but I prefer to have the enhanced protection.

Car window seals sometimes fail after a number of years and it would be difficult to prove it was a manufacturers fault rather than a gradual deterioration of the adhesive/sealant due to weather or other contributory factors.  Panoramic roofs would also fall into that category.  I sympathise with Iqx913 but I would be very surprised if Toyota accept any responsibility in this instance.

 

On 1/18/2023 at 2:35 PM, anchorman said:

My car will depreciate more than 3k in the first year so what it’s cost you in 8 isn’t bad.  I get your frustration at the leak but it’s not that bad.   There are cars that would have you on the street in repair costs.  Have you tried any of the windscreen places like autoglass?  

No.  Inspection of the panoramic roof isn't part of the service schedule. Even if it had been serviced within the Toyota network as it isn't part of the service schedule it wouldn't have been picked up by them.  The roof is a fixed panel, glued in by robots when the car was made so it is just like any other body panel on the car. It can not be complared with windows which are opening panels and therefore have seals which is not the case with the glass roof panel. I've consulted glass specialists and their opinion is that the glue (which should last a lifetime) is faulty.  I maintain this is a manufacturing defect.

All I can say is that if Toyota do not do the decent thing I will never ever buy a Toyota again and will spread the word as far and wide as I can about my experience.

[lqx913]

On 1/18/2023 at 10:42 AM, FROSTYBALLS said:

A car bought new in 2015 (as per the topic title and your profile) is in it's 8th year - it isn't 6 years old. So it is actually two years plus outside of the manufacturers warranty.

It started to leak after 5 years.  Irrespective of warranties (many of which aren't worth the paper they're written on) there is underlying consumer law.  The question you have to ask yourself is; Would you expect the bodywork on a 7 year old car to fail?  Remember this is a fixed panel, it was glued in upon manufacture, does not open therefore does not have seals that will deteriorate over time. 1 lady owner, 55K miles.  If Toyota don't do the right thing I'll never go them again!

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 minute ago, lqx913 said:

It started to leak after 5 years. 

So presumably you took it back to Toyota then for inspection?? If not, why wait two further years and then expect repairs??

[RonYarisX]

Just reading the above. Not quite sure I believe what I'm reading.

Why is OP mentioning warranty. The car is well out of warranty?

Manufacturing defect? The car went 5yr before the problem began. That would be a part failure, not a manufacturing defect. A manufacturing defect would have made itself known long before 5yr.

But the car is a 2015 model, it's not 2023 so are we saying the OP has lived with the issue for the past 2-3yr?

I'm gobsmacked anyone can blame Toyota. The contract is between the buyer and the seller - i.e. the garage where you bought the car from. Even if the car was only 6months and 1 day old, the onus would be on the OP to prove it was a manufacturing defect that has caused the problem.

Now from what I've read above, the OP has no evidence its caused by a manufacturing defect. He's been told the 'glue' should last a lifetime. Define life time. On a motor vehicle legally lifetime will be defined as 6yr. It's a fact of life that parts fail - it's called wear and tear. They all have their own lifetime.

To say that after 7-8 years that it was a 'manufacturing default !  That's crazy, completely unrealistic. You have zero chance of the garage, the manufacturer or more importantly the law, agreeing with you.

To resolve a matter businesses will sometimes offer a goodwill gesture. What I then read is that for the past 2yr, the OP has gone outside the Toyota network. Why would Toyota or the dealership go out their way and spend ££££'s on someone who's giving them nothing back?

You're totally wasting your time pursuing this. Your only options are fix it yourself, put a brick thru it and claim on the insurance, get rid of the car or buy an umbrella.

 

 

[davidif]

6 minutes ago, RonYarisX said:

Just reading the above. Not quite sure I believe what I'm reading.

Why is OP mentioning warranty. The car is well out of warranty?

Manufacturing defect? The car went 5yr before the problem began. That would be a part failure, not a manufacturing defect. A manufacturing defect would have made itself known long before 5yr.

But the car is a 2015 model, it's not 2023 so are we saying the OP has lived with the issue for the past 2-3yr?

I'm gobsmacked anyone can blame Toyota. The contract is between the buyer and the seller - i.e. the garage where you bought the car from. Even if the car was only 6months and 1 day old, the onus would be on the OP to prove it was a manufacturing defect that has caused the problem.

Now from what I've read above, the OP has no evidence its caused by a manufacturing defect. He's been told the 'glue' should last a lifetime. Define life time. On a motor vehicle legally lifetime will be defined as 6yr. It's a fact of life that parts fail - it's called wear and tear. They all have their own lifetime.

To say that after 7-8 years that it was a 'manufacturing default !  That's crazy, completely unrealistic. You have zero chance of the garage, the manufacturer or more importantly the law, agreeing with you.

To resolve a matter businesses will sometimes offer a goodwill gesture. What I then read is that for the past 2yr, the OP has gone outside the Toyota network. Why would Toyota or the dealership go out their way and spend ££££'s on someone who's giving them nothing back?

You're totally wasting your time pursuing this. Your only options are fix it yourself, put a brick thru it and claim on the insurance, get rid of the car or buy an umbrella.

 

 

On the fence there Ron🤣

[RonYarisX]

2 minutes ago, davidif said:

On the fence there Ron🤣

Ha ha.

Reading the post I couldn't help thinking of Trigger from Only Fools and Horses. Despite having what was it, seven new heads and four new handles, his brush lasted him a lifetime.

😀

[Guest]

Even at the age it is, it shouldn't leak. Are there any complaints/reports about the glass roof leaking on other similar cars?

Of no help but I suspect, wrongly or correctly, there's been some external influence to cause it. Either conciously or not.

Hitting a large pothole for instance causing body flexing. Or even parked outside in bright summer sun and freezing winter temperatures. i.e. expansion and contraction of 8 years old "glue".

I'm not a complete Toyota fanboy but on this occasion I doubt there's any comeback with them or the selling party.

P.S. Totally irrelevant, but I wouldn't buy a car with a glass roof.

[anchorman]

3 hours ago, lqx913 said:

 

All I can say is that if Toyota do not do the decent thing I will never ever buy a Toyota again and will spread the word as far and wide as I can about my experience.

I knew exactly where this was going as soon as you put up your very first post on the forum.  You might get the odd entitled wokey snowflake to sympathise with you but most level headed Toyota owners won’t and really won’t care if you buy something else.  Toyota make fantastic warranty gestures for loyal customers when it’s justified but I hope they don’t give in to foot stamping because it indirectly effects the price of new cars.