Tests of 2022 Yaris Cross Dynamic AWD on Very Slippery Incline

[BobHos]

I  reported these and earlier tests previously under the topic "Fuel Consumption data on a 2022 Yaris Cross Dynamic multimedia screen" when I should really have started this topic.

Conditions the same as yesterday so tested a bit more. Found an even steeper "skating rink" (probably between a 1 in 10 and 1 in 15 elevation). Felt like any steeper and stationary cars might have slipped backwards. The Yaris Y20  was hopeless, no chance of going forward but the cross behaved perfectly with not the slightest indication of slippage or wheel spin. I also tested the cross on a level road to watch the energy flow and, in particular, energisation of the rear electric motor. In normal drive mode there is energy flow to the rear electric motor starting off from stationary but it disengages almost as soon as the car moves and does not re-engage as the car moves along (even at very slow speeds, e.g down to 5mph or less). In "snow mode" it appeared that the rear electric motor was energised ever so slightly longer after driving off but it was difficult to gauge properly watching the instantaneous energy flow screen. It also appeared that in "snow mode" there appeared to be transient energisation of the rear electric motor during driving, perhaps due to slight wheel spin  on slippery patches of the road. I do not know if Toyota have employed any smart algorithmic monitoring and control system in the awd cross and it is very difficult to try to assess the transient behaviour whilst driving.

Anyway I am fully satisfied that the cross will do what I want. It certainly isn't a high powered continuously variable, sophisticated awd vehicle but, at my time of life, that is not what I need. 

[TonyHSD]

What tyres have you got fitted, if stock summer ones are they Goodyear efficient grip or Falkens? 
I found recently my new summer Goodyear’s did so well on snow and ice that it made feel I am on all season tyres instead of a summer ones.
Good to hear the awd works well 👍

[BobHos]

8 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

What tyres have you got fitted, if stock summer ones are they Goodyear efficient grip or Falkens? 
I found recently my new summer Goodyear’s did so well on snow and ice that it made feel I am on all season tyres instead of a summer ones.
Good to hear the awd works well 👍

Summer Goodyears. I only got the car on 30th December so I missed the heavy snow so I was unable to test in snow.

[TonyHSD]

2 minutes ago, BobHos said:

Summer Goodyears. I only got the car on 30th December so I missed the heavy snow so I was unable to test in snow.

Thanks. 
These are very good tyres indeed, I am on my second set and won’t change them for anything else 🛞👍

[BobHos]

2 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Thanks. 
These are very good tyres indeed, I am on my second set and won’t change them for anything else 🛞👍

You can see a bit more on the tests under the other topic I posted on

 

 

[anchorman]

3 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

What tyres have you got fitted, if stock summer ones are they Goodyear efficient grip or Falkens? 
I found recently my new summer Goodyear’s did so well on snow and ice that it made feel I am on all season tyres instead of a summer ones.
Good to hear the awd works well 👍

Now you tell me!   I’ve just taken a set off and put all seasons on.  It’s only money 🙄😂

[TonyHSD]

12 minutes ago, anchorman said:

Now you tell me!   I’ve just taken a set off and put all seasons on.  It’s only money 🙄😂

Not only the money but the hassle too 😂🛞👌

[Primus1]

I briefly debated to get awd but, for the very odd day we get a dusting of snow , I can’t really justify it..

[Tel 2]

Trust my AWD  will have Goodyears fitted.

Tel

[anchorman]

3 hours ago, Primus1 said:

I briefly debated to get awd but, for the very odd day we get a dusting of snow , I can’t really justify it..

Famous last words 😉.  It’s like the majority of drivers say they don’t need winter tyres because it never snows where they live🙄. Keep in mind the AWD is hooked into the VSC which improves its effectiveness and it has multi link rear suspension.  

[anchorman]

2 hours ago, Tel 2 said:

Trust my AWD  will have Goodyears fitted.

Tel

Mine did although the website showed Falken and that’s what my neighbours AWD came with so maybe Falken have got supply problems.  They often dual source for security of supply reasons.  

[Max_Headroom]

The way i look at it -

2 wheel drive on all season tyres obviously the worst.

4 wheel drive all season tyres slightly better

2 wheel drive on winter tyres better 

4 wheels drive on winter tyres best

Leave the car where its parked until the roads have been gritted better than the four above.

I have never had a 4 wheel drive or winter tyres and i have never got stuck in snow if there is so much snow in the side streets that i cannot get my car out i am not going to bother why risk some idiot skidding into you on your journey?

The other thing is if it comes down heavy and unexpected when you are on a journey you are only going to get as far as all the drivers in front of you who don't have 4 wheel drive and winter tyres. 

 

 

 

 

 

[TonyHSD]

I am exactly opposite.
If I see it’s snowing and starting to build the white stuff all I want is to get into my car and drive, the more I drive the more I enjoy it.
For me there is nothing more peaceful than driving a car on snowy and icy roads in slippery conditions. All that driving enjoyment requires a winter ready car ( driving axles doesn’t matter) and driver’s willingness to do it. It is fun and done sensibly there is no risk to damage your car or someone else’s. 
Toyota Hybrids and electric cars are really good in snow and ice, better than any other type of cars with manual or auto transmission. I am actually surprised that the standard Yaris hybrid  didn’t make it. Perhaps the tyres aren’t as good as on the Cross one. 

[Cyker]

I must say mine was utterly boring in the snow, the traction control doesn't let you do anything fun, even on summer tyres!  

It's mad how it manages to find grip. I couldn't even flick it round a corner I mean I drove sensibly round a corner

Admittedly we don't get the blizzards and yeti attacks you lot up north get so the car had a much easier time of it; If it was properly snowy I wouldn't drive, but down here the most dangerous roads are the side roads; If you can survive that, the rest is just plain sailing, even on summers. I swear the gritters build up so much anticipation that when they're finally called for they go crazy!!

If you ever need something sandblasted on the cheap, just drive round here in the evening when the weatherman predicts sub-zero temps the next day  

 

[BobHos]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

I am exactly opposite.
If I see it’s snowing and starting to build the white stuff all I want is to get into my car and drive, the more I drive the more I enjoy it.
For me there is nothing more peaceful than driving a car on snowy and icy roads in slippery conditions. All that driving enjoyment requires a winter ready car ( driving axles doesn’t matter) and driver’s willingness to do it. It is fun and done sensibly there is no risk to damage your car or someone else’s. 
Toyota Hybrids and electric cars are really good in snow and ice, better than any other type of cars with manual or auto transmission. I am actually surprised that the standard Yaris hybrid  didn’t make it. Perhaps the tyres aren’t as good as on the Cross one. 

I had a look at the tyre profiles before I did the last "slippery slope" test. The cross has new Goodyear summer grade tyres and the Y20 Yaris has Continental Contact 2 summer grade tyres (only 8,000 miles) and I could see that the profiles were very similar so I knew I was comparing eggs with eggs when I tested both cars. Only real difference was the slightly wider Cross tyres. As I said on my report the surface was just like an ice rink (smooth, slippery thick ice) and the slope was very steep (since measured it as 1 in 12 incline). When I got out and in the cars I intuitively felt that the situation was near to a condition where the slightest push or strong gust of wind might have started the cars sliding back down the slope. I was not surprised that the Y20 Yaris could not drive forward at all and I was extremely pleased to find that the Cross had no problem whatsoever. 

[BobHos]

Sorry, I should have said clearly in my reports that the tests were from a standing drive off on the slope and not a drive onto the slope from a start on a level surface.

[anchorman]

3 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

The way i look at it -

2 wheel drive on all season tyres obviously the worst.

4 wheel drive all season tyres slightly better

2 wheel drive on winter tyres better 

4 wheels drive on winter tyres best

Leave the car where its parked until the roads have been gritted better than the four above.

I have never had a 4 wheel drive or winter tyres and i have never got stuck in snow if there is so much snow in the side streets that i cannot get my car out i am not going to bother why risk some idiot skidding into you on your journey?

The other thing is if it comes down heavy and unexpected when you are on a journey you are only going to get as far as all the drivers in front of you who don't have 4 wheel drive and winter tyres. 

 

 

 

 

 

All season tyres are not regular mud and snow they are very capable in all seasons but have the 3 peak mountain symbol.  You’re missing the point.  I work round the clock shifts and have to go or get back at all times.  Staying at home isn’t an option. 

[Max_Headroom]

57 minutes ago, anchorman said:

All season tyres are not regular mud and snow they are very capable in all seasons but have the 3 peak mountain symbol.  You’re missing the point.  I work round the clock shifts and have to go or get back at all times.  Staying at home isn’t an option. 

If you are on the roads on your own then fine my point was you can have the most capable car on snow but if the line of cars in front of you are stuck because theirs isn't you are also stuck. 

[anchorman]

7 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

If you are on the roads on your own then fine my point was you can have the most capable car on snow but if the line of cars in front of you are stuck because theirs isn't you are also stuck. 

I might not be a genius but I’m not stupid.  

[Jimota]

23 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

I am exactly opposite.
If I see it’s snowing and starting to build the white stuff all I want is to get into my car and drive, the more I drive the more I enjoy it.
For me there is nothing more peaceful than driving a car on snowy and icy roads in slippery conditions. All that driving enjoyment requires a winter ready car ( driving axles doesn’t matter) and driver’s willingness to do it. It is fun and done sensibly there is no risk to damage your car or someone else’s. 
Toyota Hybrids and electric cars are really good in snow and ice, better than any other type of cars with manual or auto transmission. I am actually surprised that the standard Yaris hybrid  didn’t make it. Perhaps the tyres aren’t as good as on the Cross one. 

Despite the recent freezing weather and living in an area of South Lanarkshire which is renowned for getting the first snows, the roads around me have been well attended by the gritters and no real problems have been identified so far.  I’m pleased with your comments about Toyota Hybrids performing well in winter conditions as I have little knowledge or experience in this regard.  I must confess that I wondered how an E CVT powered vehicle would compare against a manual or conventional automatic but so far weather/road conditions have not enabled me to come to any conclusions.  

[Cyker]

In theory any sort of CVT should be the best gearbox as it is smooth and continuous so there is no sudden 'jerk' to change gears, which is all it takes to break traction on very marginal surfaces!

Regen braking is also advantageous as it requires movement to generate braking force, so it's much less likely to lock up, unlike friction brakes, as if the wheels lock up the regen braking will also stop.

If it weren't for the batteries not liking freezing temps, EVs would make ideal snow cars - The weight helps low speed traction and you could have 4 independent motors all sensing road grip with individual torque vectoring and smooth continuous power delivery like a CVT, except it's built in as they don't need gearboxes and they could all apply independent levels of torque or regen braking depending on the surface and to guide the car.

If each wheel had a motor powerful enough to move the car on its own you'd never get stuck!

[Jimota]

That was a very good and informative update Cyker.  My thirst for gaining knowledge of the hybrid world is ever increasing.  Cheers.

[TonyHSD]

Well, we have that ideal ev car ( pick up truck) called Rivian. But that’s another car in another land 🇺🇸
Here we have Toyota hybrids which are really good on slippery roads because of the fact that the electric motor does the initial move of the car therefore there is a high torque available at 0rpm, this is very important for moving off the line. The Yaris cross awd although it’s not more powerful than the fwd hybrid has all that available torque spread between all 4 wheels and this along helps a lot in exact situations as tested on icy steep slope. I hope Mr. Anchorman is happy now. 🙂👍
Also the rear driving axles is a lot more capable going uphill than fwd only. I had tested quite few Prius and Auris hybrids on snow, ice, mud and gravel. They all performed very well but here very important role been playing by  the tyres. 
My Auris first time tried on fresh snow with summers  Kumho ecsta tyres 215/45 17 and was a disaster. The car was without any control at all and I just wanted to swap parking spaces., ever since I bought and used dedicated winter tyres every winter, resulting excellent handling.
This winter for a first time I decided to stay on my new 16” size summer tyres 205/55 16, Goodyear efficient grip performance 2, and I was pleasantly surprised how well the car performed over snow, ice, everything, simply as good as with all season tyres , all that within sensible speeds , no extreme tests. 
Tyres are the most important thing, then the drivers training and then the car. Here some pics: 
I believe these Goodyear are much better than other summer tyres because when new they have a lots of these tiny sipes that open and close while tyres is rotating and they grip on slippery surfaces plus they have ability to retain snow on them similar to winter and all season tyres. Plus these tyres are very soft. If they were worn out to 5mm or less the results would have been different. 
  

[BobHos]

1 hour ago, Jimota said:

Despite the recent freezing weather and living in an area of South Lanarkshire which is renowned for getting the first snows, the roads around me have been well attended by the gritters and no real problems have been identified so far.  I’m pleased with your comments about Toyota Hybrids performing well in winter conditions as I have little knowledge or experience in this regard.  I must confess that I wondered how an E CVT powered vehicle would compare against a manual or conventional automatic but so far weather/road conditions have not enabled me to come to any conclusions.  

Hi Jim. Is your Cross an awd one?

[Jimota]

Hi Robert.  No it’s just a very capable 2wd with summer tyres but hasn’t met with any difficult road conditions so far.  Unusually, the higher parts of South Lanarkshire missed out on the recent heavy snow, unlike the white out conditions suffered in your area.