Lost any remaining trust in main dealer

[Hybrid21]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Again perhaps Toyota UK head office should lay more attention to how dealers are treating their customers and penalise or revoke rights to sell Toyota cars and products in the future. Perhaps it’s time all brands to follow Tesla model for direct sales to consumers and jump the middle men (dealers). 

Hi Tony, what would happen with servicing/warranty issues, etc ?

[Guest]

On 1/29/2023 at 7:51 AM, Saxmaniac said:

Last straw was wheel nuts overtightened so much I had to use a 3ft scaffold pole extension and broke the security key trying to undo a nut they had just fitted.

That would ring alarm bells with me because they might well have been tightened more than the yield point and/or elastic limit of the studs/bolts. 3ft and the amount of force required to release them is one large torque in lbf ft.

[Gerg]

Around 5 years ago, I had the headlamps changed under warranty (for the known beam-pattern problem).

When the car was returned, the fuse box lower case had had its lid securing mechanism broken clean off, so the lid had nothing to secure to, like this:

Perhaps the technician didn't realise the lid unclipped, and use a small jemmy on it?

And the front bumper wasn't refitted properly.  And the headlamps weren't aligned.

When I pointed this out to the service staff they weren't particularly bothered - 'Oh, you must have had the apprentice do that job', was the explanation.

The above was from another branch of the same dealer chain as the original poster.  It's not encouraging.

[Gerg]

...Another time, at yet another branch of the same dealer chain as the OP, the strut top-mounts were replaced in an attempt to cure the suspension 'groan', the one that is now well-documented on here.

In my new-owner enthusiasm, I asked to see the 'condemned' strut mounts that had come off the car.  Unfortunately, one of them still had the foam weather-proofing seal attached to the bearing - the seal fits against this bearing (shown without, this seal isn't integral to the bearing, btw) :

 

Which meant it hadn't been put back on the car.  But which side had this part missing?  The dealer didn't know...

Using a piece of super-thin wire, it could be detected that the wire could be poked slightly further into one strut bearing than the other, when still fitted on the car. 

I took that strut out and refitted the missing foam piece on that side, it had indeed been put back together without it.  If I hadn't asked to see the old parts, I'd never have known.

It was easier and quicker doing it myself, rather than being without the car for another day.  At least all the bolts came off easily, even if the dealer had broken all the clips bar one, that are integral to the plastic windscreen scuttle...

 

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, Hybrid21 said:

Hi Tony, what would happen with servicing/warranty issues, etc ?

Perhaps what Tesla does, have their own places and pro trained mechanics. Mobile mechanics too. 
People are going to main dealer with believe that will get the best service and after sales care but walking out disappointed. There is always a way to improve quality. 👍

[Saxmaniac]

5 hours ago, newagetraveller said:

That would ring alarm bells with me because they might well have been tightened more than the yield point and/or elastic limit of the studs/bolts. 3ft and the amount of force required to release them is one large torque in lbf ft.

This was on an Astra which used bolts, yes they could have snapped while driving. The thing that gave out was the adaptor key and I managed to undo it with the new one. Bolts then got replaced anyway. The gorilla who overtightened them must have been doing it that way for so long he didn't realise his own strength

[AisinW]

I usually call the owner of the Dealership directly or sent him email with pictures and video if necessary.  Usually he will help you. Otherwise, you can call UK Toyota and report any specific problem with dealership if the manager or owner won't bother about your concern

[Saxmaniac]

Thing is, you might get an apology and 50 quid goodwill payment or whatever but next time you go, the same sorts of muppets will be just as likely to mess up your car and try any tricks they can to avoid warranty work they don't fancy doing. So I'll just walk away and car won't see a dealer again unless for a recall. I've only found shady practice by dealers of various makes over 40 years, let alone the chain type exhaust and tyre places so it's not just the latest episode that colours my opinions but long bitter experience! 

[Guest]

On 1/30/2023 at 4:00 PM, Saxmaniac said:

The gorilla who overtightened them must have been doing it that way for so long he didn't realise his own strength

While on the subject of gorillas, I suspect the last time I used a Toyota main dealer's for a service, a 200lb gorilla there must have used a length of scaffolding to assist in tightening the engine oil filter housing. Never used one, main dealer, since that.

Went to a local independent for the next service and they broke/ruined two removal tools before that housing eventually released! 25Nm, it's even marked on the housing.

Well done for renewing those bolts.

[tavy]

  Twice in my life I had to use this method to remove an over tightened oil filter; it works ! 

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, tavy said:

  Twice in my life I had to use this method to remove an over tightened oil filter; it works ! 

Yeah, that’s right 👍 

The problem is that some models use plastic housing and cartridge paper filter that needs replacement. Those 25Nm are actually when the housing stops rotating and it’s all done. Piercing later it’s not ideal as the housing cost money £50+ , unfortunately they often breaks because of the excessive torque. The second issue is that once been over tightened the next oil changes might not see a new oil filter cartridge at all and this is where the things start to be getting nasty. Over 150 years of car trade and basic things still lack transparency. Very few good guys out there and they will excuse me. 

[Davidhee58]

It seems dealer garage technisians never use torque wrench at all, they over tightened my car's oil filter housing at least more than twice, as i found the housing tabs had damaged already when I changed the oil myself last year, and they did oppsite (under tightening) for the sump plug, causing slow oil leak, they know under-tightening is better than over-tightening for the plug, that's not too bad🤣 

[Gerg]

On 2/1/2023 at 4:43 PM, Davidhee58 said:

It seems dealer garage technisians never use torque wrench at all, they over tightened my car's oil filter housing at least more than twice, as i found the housing tabs had damaged already when I changed the oil myself last year, and they did oppsite (under tightening) for the sump plug, causing slow oil leak, they know under-tightening is better than over-tightening for the plug, that's not too bad🤣 

I've never worked in a service garage setting, but I'd imagine that as you're always working against the clock, any time savings and shortcuts could become entirely routine, including not using a torque wrench.

Also, amongst other workshop staff, using a torque wrench might be seen as being overly cautious, and displaying in that environment, to a degree, a lack of confidence in your own abilities.

I remember chatting to the young service advisor at one of the garages above, he said that he could not understand how the workshop (a fairly small workshop as it happens) managed to get through all their allocated jobs, day after day.  It was a mystery to him, he said. 

When the suspension mounts were replaced under warranty (above), the car was barely 4 years old and low mileage.  It was interesting how, probably through time constraints (?), they had moved to using a gas torch to remove both the anti-roll bar linkages - because they couldn't get the nuts undone in the allotted time, presumably?  New linkages went back on, understandably.

The fact that the technician is so cut-off from the paying customer in main dealer garages doesn't help with job satisfaction for the technician, either.  The OP's garage chain seems as bad as any in that respect.  The money rolls in, but the technician doesn't get that much of it, and you, the car owner, are just a faceless customer.

But I agree with your points.  And the above is only my opinion, workshop staff will be much better informed than me!

[Stivino]

16 minutes ago, Gerg said:

because they couldn't get the nuts undone in the allotted time, presumably?

Sometimes, the nut won't come off because as you turn the nut, the stud turn too.  So, it either has to be burned off, or cut off with a cutting disc.

Either way, the technician would far rather turn the nut off than have to use cutting gear.

It's not quicker to cut or burn things off.  If you tey to turn it off and it won't come, you have to then go and get cutting gear which takes more time and is dangerous.  It certainly isn't done as a first resort.

[Gerg]

18 minutes ago, Stivino said:

Sometimes, the nut won't come off because as you turn the nut, the stud turn too.  So, it either has to be burned off, or cut off with a cutting disc.

Either way, the technician would far rather turn the nut off than have to use cutting gear.

It's not quicker to cut or burn things off.  If you tey to turn it off and it won't come, you have to then go and get cutting gear which takes more time and is dangerous.  It certainly isn't done as a first resort.

I take your point - I agree.  I've done a few of these, on different cars over the years.

Penetrating oil (and time for it to work!) was always part of my approach.  Successfully getting an Allen key up the inside of the joint is time-consuming, and it usually quickly 'rounds-out' anyway, for me.

The car was still quite new-looking underneath, when I'd had it jacked up (for other reasons) previously, that 'means' of getting the links off came as a surprise at the time.

But then, I'm only doing this on my drive, to save a bit of cash or to learn about this stuff, 'as and when' !  I will never get to see the thousands of repairs that you have, which I'm happy to acknowledge!

[Stivino]

They don't all have the luxury of having an internal hex for an Allen Key either.  Which, as you say, will often not hold the key.

[Microgroove100]

Over the last few years since my current dealer was acquired by a much larger group, lets say the name begins with a 'H', the standard has fallen rapidly. From a very busy service department with a three week wait to book a service or repair, to now booking anything in within a day or two and could have any day or week!

Previously there were many customers waiting in the coffee lounge, it was a hub of activity, but now you don't see another person apart from office employees who present a slightly insulting manner. They want you to book it in for all day even for something simple. Since then I have been looking for other service agents.

The final straw came when I wanted the Auris indicator stalk replaced. I rang them up and explained it just needed the stalk replacing due to intermittent operation. First thing they said was oh, we will charge you £180 diagnosis fee up front, but I said well it is common fault and just want it replaced! Frustrated I decided to cancel the booking and do the job myself, because if a technician needs a diagnostic tool to spot the obvious then I really did not want them working on the car. Correct me if I am wrong but as the Auris uses conventional wiring i.e not CAN bus for the indicators is there a possibly it might not show up on a diagnostic tool? Money for nothing perhaps?

Subsequently when I was looking around the engine bay, all seven plastic push rivets/fixings on the shield spanning across in front of the radiator were either missing or broken! 😦

Rich

[Eddiefh]

Magazines like this gave me confidence to have a go myself 

[Saxmaniac]

20 hours ago, Microgroove100 said:

Over the last few years since my current dealer was acquired by a much larger group, lets say the name begins with a 'H', the standard has fallen rapidly. From a very busy service department with a three week wait to book a service or repair, to now booking anything in within a day or two and could have any day or week!

Previously there were many customers waiting in the coffee lounge, it was a hub of activity, but now you don't see another person apart from office employees who present a slightly insulting manner. They want you to book it in for all day even for something simple. Since then I have been looking for other service agents.

The final straw came when I wanted the Auris indicator stalk replaced. I rang them up and explained it just needed the stalk replacing due to intermittent operation. First thing they said was oh, we will charge you £180 diagnosis fee up front, but I said well it is common fault and just want it replaced! Frustrated I decided to cancel the booking and do the job myself, because if a technician needs a diagnostic tool to spot the obvious then I really did not want them working on the car. Correct me if I am wrong but as the Auris uses conventional wiring i.e not CAN bus for the indicators is there a possibly it might not show up on a diagnostic tool? Money for nothing perhaps?

Subsequently when I was looking around the engine bay, all seven plastic push rivets/fixings on the shield spanning across in front of the radiator were either missing or broken! 😦

Rich

I don't know about canbus question but if you know a specific common fault that causes your problem, you should be able to confirm with just basic test meter? If you want to DIY it's worth investing in scan tool or some of the techstream copies out there. Best done on an old xp laptop. Access the manufacturer service manual with a subscription which can be done fairly cheaply for day ir whatever, download what documents you want. I've got full Prius Gen 3 manual as PDF, available online but there's 7500 pages and no navigation through, so hard to search for required section! (Most of this manual should apply to auris hybrid)

There's also plenty of info to be gleaned from YouTube 

[TonyHSD]

Well, it’s not the main dealer only but all car garages in this country. 👎
Today my gf went for a tyres check and replacement on her lease car at ATS garage. I told her to ask them specifically for exact same tyres if they change only two. She did requested and they told her yes we do have same tyres. Now she sent me a picture of the new front tyres and I couldn’t believe what I have seen , cross climate 2.
They had fitted an all season tyres on the front axle and left the half worn summer eco tyres on the rear. This is if not illegal then totally wrong and can lead to easy lost of control on slippery roads and unstable drive on motorway speeds. I can’t believe the amount of idiotic people who are involved in this trade, honestly 👎👎👎 

[Stivino]

6 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Well, it’s not the main dealer only but all car garages in this country. 👎
Today my gf went for a tyres check and replacement on her lease car at ATS garage. I told her to ask them specifically for exact same tyres if they change only two. She did requested and they told her yes we do have same tyres. Now she sent me a picture of the new front tyres and I couldn’t believe what I have seen , cross climate 2.
They had fitted an all season tyres on the front axle and left the half worn summer eco tyres on the rear. This is if not illegal then totally wrong and can lead to easy lost of control on slippery roads and unstable drive on motorway speeds. I can’t believe the amount of idiotic people who are involved in this trade, honestly 👎👎👎 

It's a pity you didn't go with her. You could have advised them how to do it the proper way.

[Cyker]

Did they use someone else's tyres by mistake?! If she asked for the same tyres, and they agreed, how can they put on totally different ones??

[Rhymes with Paris]

As the song on the TV ad went,"You can't get thicker than a Quick Fit fitter"

Sorry I couldn't find any musical annotations to illustrate the song, but those of a certain vintage will remember those actors/dancers in boiler suits prancing about, trying to give the impression of a well choreographed mechanic.

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

Did they use someone else's tyres by mistake?! If she asked for the same tyres, and they agreed, how can they put on totally different ones??

I don’t think they did , simply they see a woman and a lease car and so let’s put anything they have on the shelf and make some money. They went all wrong , didn’t even spot a tyre repair , nothing.  She is definitely going back for two more tyres. I am or even sure if these ar even the correct size, end her picture doesn’t help much 😂👌

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, Stivino said:

It's a pity you didn't go with her. You could have advised them how to do it the proper way.

I simply would have not allowed that to happen, it would have been all 4 new cross climates or nothing. Her tyres were good for another year anyway. She is definitely gonna go back 👍