New clutch - but what about the flywheel?

[mart rotherham]

Corolla D4D  56 plate. Years ago (80s) when a clutch went on a totally different car, I had  all the 3 clutch components changed on the car. That being  clutch plate, pressure plate and bearing. 

 Someone mentioned that on my current Toyota the flywheel  should also be changed at the same time. Can anyone give me a bit more info on this please, and why the flywheel needs to be changed?

[TonyHSD]

Hi, if it’s a dual mass fly wheel and been worn out or at high miles perhaps yes. If single mass flywheel then only if it’s damaged with a lot of deep scratches or signs of overheating and glazing. 

[oldcodger]

If yours is the 2ltr diesel then according to the Haynes manual its the same solid flywheel as our 1.6ltr petrol engine.

When we did our clutch a few years ago it was quiet smooth and even so we never changed it, though we did read that we should have given its surface a light rubing with some wet and dry to give it a slight matted surface.

If it does show signs of heavy wear some garages are able to skim it if not too bad rather than buy a new one, as below.

Are you doing it yourself or giving it to a garage ?  the former is a big job, though doable.  Make sure you buy the clutch kit from a reputable supplier as seems there are lots of big brand poor copies around.

Quote

However, not wishing to complicate issues, there are two types of flywheel. One is solid, the other is dual-mass. While a solid flywheel can be removed and resurfaced at Mr Clutch Autocentres by undergoing a skimming process, which can save the car owner a lot of money, wear characteristics on a dual-mass type, which tends to be fitted to more modern vehicles, lend themselves more ideally to the good practice of replacement.

 

[mart rotherham]

@oldcodger

Yes, I have the 2Lt D4D model. Hope it is ok. Thank you.

[oldcodger]

A decent supplier we use  who has some good brand  clutch kits like Blueprint and Luk  but not many places list the flywheel.

https://www.partsinmotion.co.uk/

Whats your problem, slipping clutch ?

If doing it yourself you might find the little pdf we did on our clutch change of help.

clutch details(1).pdf

[mart rotherham]

I have just been in touch with Toyota main dealess.  Based on Reg, they confirmed that my car has the dual mass flywheel. I then phoned the local car spares for a LUK clutch price. Surprisingly to me the clutch for DM flywheel type is cheaper. 

I hope my flywheel is in good condition.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by mart rotherham
typo

[oldcodger]

From what we have read , if there is a problem with the DMF  you are likely to be getting vibrations and rattling etc

Quiet a lot of talk  around about using a conversion kit from DM to a Plain flywheel but thats a very contentious issue and probably only worth it for a car with a  very long life left in it.

Not sure what garages are charging these days for a new clutch, used to be around £300 from a gearbox//transmission specialist garage.

Have you got a quote from this place ?

https://www.mrclutch.com/branch/sheffield

 

[Cyker]

The advice to change the dual-mass flywheel as well as the clutch is because the first generation DMFs were absurdly short-lived; It wasn't uncommon for the DMF to break before the clutch wore out in some cases.

Because it was so common, people would change it at the same time, rather than pay for all the labour of changing the clutch, then having to pay it again some months later when the DMF went as well.

 

The problem is because they're basically 2 much lighter flywheels that are connected to each other with a common shaft and springs, which act as dampers, but the springs are constantly rubbing against the side of the flywheel like a rasp/file and create massive amounts of swarth and heat, esp. at low rpm and high load, which is the worst-case for a DMF.

DMFs in petrol cars have a much easier life - Petrol power strokes are much gentler than diesel's (More of a firm push vs being punched in the face  ), and petrols tend to run at higher RPMs (TBH I don't even understand why they bothered putting them in petrol cars!)

I don't know if they've solved this in newer DMFs, e.g. by putting some grease or other lubricant or having some teflon guides to stop the springs shredding the flywheel, as posts about DMF problems are now extremely rare on here.

I would say if the car came with a DMF, don't be tempted to change to an SMF - We did that with my dad's old diesel Verso with its 1CD-FTV engine, because the DMF was something like £700-800 and cost 3x more than the rest of the clutch parts put together!  

It worked but it made the car much less pleasant to drive and gave it a whole new set of annoying resonating frequencies it didn't have before.

Whether to change it or not is tricky; If you drive like I did it'd probably need changing, but if you always accelerated gently and progressively and didn't drive around town in 5th gear all the time  then it might still have a lot of life left in it.

[mart rotherham]

Yes, I have the 2Lt D4D model. Hope it is ok. Thank you.

Update:   I have two options so far.

Option one:Lux clutch kit £136 plus £150 labour. Total £286 but no plan if the DMF is on it's last legs. 

Option Two: Buy a matrix set £300. (This includes a full clutch kit, plus SMF and conversion kit). Labour to fit is still £150. Total £450

 I have booked the car in for option 2. However @Cyker story of his dad's Verso conversion to SMF is concerning to me. Quote, " made the car much less pleasant to drive and gave it a whole new set of annoying resonating frequencies it didn't have before".

Maybe he will expand on this as I do not really know what is meant by that, but I certainly believe him. 

What I  hoped would be a straight forward garage job is giving me a headache. 

Which direction do I go in? I have the money for the fix, and I just want my car back on the road.

 

 

 

 

[APS]

As long as the DMF springs are OK, the flywheel friction area can always be resurfaced to remove scratches and glaze. 

[Cyker]

I know, nothing's ever smegging easy!  

What I meant by resonances is at certain speeds and loads I could feel the car vibrates/shakes more than it used to after it had the SMF conversion. If you tend to drive at higher RPMs you'll probably not experience it, but when idling through traffic in higher gears I could feel more chug because the power pulses from the engine weren't fully damped any more.

I found it a little annoying but it wasn't my car and my dad didn't seem to mind. It didn't seem to cause any problems with the car, but he didn't have it for much longer as he had to get rid of it before he got KHAAAAN!'d by the ULEZ expansion.

If you've already booked it in for the conversion, go ahead and don't worry about it!

[mart rotherham]

@CykerThank you for getting back. I have not bought any parts yet-job is booked in for 8th.  I don't have to go ahead with the conversion. I could just have the new clutch fitted. 

[flash22]

Anything over 140-150k miles do the DMF, it's a case of pay the piper now or later (potentially another clutch)

[mart rotherham]

That makes sense. 

Currently shopping round for a LUK DMF.

[TonyHSD]

Better change all new. Even if the dmf is still ok as flash said after some mileage it will go and then you will need to change everything all over again. 

[mart rotherham]

Update: I Phoned around this morning and was decisive.

I have placed my order for a LUK brand clutch kit £131, which is in stock at my local spares shop. 

I also ordered a LUK brand DMFW £384  which is due in tomorrow. Labour as mentioned £150.

Total cost £665 which I am happy with.

@oldcodgerThank you for providing the link for 'Mr Clutch branch'. I phoned and was told they do not fit the customer's parts. 

Thank you all for the help & advice, it is much appreciated. Thank you.