Brake problem on new Corolla

[Alan Seddon]

Has anyone had problems with the braking system on the new Corolla (2022 model)

I parked on a hill, put foot on the brake pedal, reached to pull the switch for the handbrake, just in the course of putting the gear lever in the Park position and the car shot forward into a parked Land Rover. I had no way of stopping the collision and a sign came up on the display “hybrid system failure” The car was not in drive and I didn’t have time to get the car into the P position-it ended up in the N position. I am racking my brains to find out what happened. 
Any suggestions? 

[TonyHSD]

Hi Alan and welcome to the club. 
I am very sorry for your accident in a brand new car. I never heard of any incidents like that before in any Toyota hybrid. I can explain the events after the collision. 
Right after your car has hit the Land Rover the car ecu has detected the crash and automatically set the transmission into neutral N and displayed a warning message “ hybrid system malfunction “ likely accomplish by more warning lights.
I believe what has happened is more likely to be a driver’s error than a car brake system failure. The reason for that is because when you have the brake pedal depressed the car brake system will hold the car firmly and even if the system experienced any electrical malfunction the front brakes has direct mechanical-hydraulic operation , they will work even if the car is completely off. 
The only way the car can jump forward exactly as in your case is when the accelerator has been pressed instead of the brake pedal.
This can be easily done even by an experienced driver if it just start driving an automatic car and when you stopped on incline road in D the automatic transmission will hold the car and can trick you that you have positioned your foot over the brake pedal while you actually still have it over the accelerator.
The car remains stationary and when you have decided  to press firmly on the pedal to engage parking brake and select P on the gear lever the car has jumped forward unexpectedly. This is also written in the Toyota manual book as driver precaution. The other thing that might had helped for that false sense of the car been held by you with the brakes is when the car has engaged it’s brake hold function. But I have no experience with that and will leave it to the other Corolla owners to see what is their experience and thoughts. 

[Alan Seddon]

Hi Tony,

Thank you very much for your comments.  I think that I have to accept it was driver error even though I have driven over 10000 miles in this car. I must have hit the gas pedal even though I just can’t believe it. My problem is further compounded by no courtesy cars being available via my Insurance company (Co-op) even though my premium covers a courtesy car (subject to availability of course in the small print) so I’m having to hire a car costing me £275 per week and at the moment I have been given no timescale for the repairs-it never rains eh……….

[forkingabout]

Has the automatic electric parking brake function been switched off?

Normally you hold the vehicle stationary with the brake pedal, shift the lever in to park, you hear the electric parking brake automatically applies, dash & parking button warning lights both illuminate, then you can release the brake pedal.

[Alan Seddon]

Hi,

To be honest I don’t know. I will check that when I eventually get the car back. Thanks for your comments. 

[TonyHSD]

8 minutes ago, Alan Seddon said:

Hi Tony,

Thank you very much for your comments.  I think that I have to accept it was driver error even though I have driven over 10000 miles in this car. I must have hit the gas pedal even though I just can’t believe it. My problem is further compounded by no courtesy cars being available via my Insurance company (Co-op) even though my premium covers a courtesy car (subject to availability of course in the small print) so I’m having to hire a car costing me £275 per week and at the moment I have been given no timescale for the repairs-it never rains eh……….

Yeah, unfortunately one trouble never comes alone. Todays times everything it’s on a short supply and extended time for providing services or repairs, replacements. I don’t know how long would it take to repair the car , it might be weeks or months, perhaps buying a cheap runaround might be a better option if insurance not able to provide a courtesy car and they agreed to reimburse you anything because of that. It might worth checking with them again. 
Good luck 👍

[Alan Seddon]

Thanks for that mate. Definitely looking for a runaround! 

[Roy124]

No crash and not entirely sure what I did, but I have had my car on brake Hold, moved to park and in the  process might have clipped the brake pedal. 

The difference, nothing in front of me, level ground, and I hit the brake. 

One thing though, the car should have taken over.  How far were you from the other car? 

If you were close your speed should have been low and it should have applied the brakes. 

[Alan Seddon]

Hi Roy,

I was no more than 3 yards behind the other car on a steep incline. My car seemed to catapult. I’ve spoken to the Toyota Dealer and they were non-commital but said that they will inspect the car when the repairs have been carried out. I only had it serviced a week before the accident.

[Roy124]

3 yards, half my garage length, probably enough acceleration space to hit a speed that the auto braking can't handle. 

Have a look in your handbook.  My MY19 had a table for collision avoidance.  It might tell you if it should have stopped. 

[Cyker]

That is a really weird thing; I'm surprised the emergency automatic brake didn't kick in to stop it even if you did press the accelerator!

We were testing my Mk4 and it won't let you crash it - If it even thinks there's even a slight chance you're going to crash it will beep a lot and if you don't do anything it will slam on the brakes; The Corolla has a similar system I'm sure!

It's tricky with these things as often it happens so fast it's hard to know what happened.

 

re. your insurer, speak to them as they should reimburse you for the lack of a courtesy car, and refund you for what you've had to pay for the rental (Make sure you keep receipts and records!!).

[Derek.w]

Strange I was under the impression that at low speeds, cars automatic braking systems will stop you if you do not take action or take the wrong action like hitting the accelerator by mistake.

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, Derek.w said:

Strange I was under the impression that at low speeds, cars automatic braking systems will stop you if you do not take action or take the wrong action like hitting the accelerator by mistake.

I believe this option only works on cars with front and rear collision prevention or whatever is called rear traffic alert perhaps, excuse me my incompetence I am still stuck in 2010 about cars technology. My gf car has that in reverse and the car automatically stops and switch to N, a bit annoying when I want to park it on my drive but at least the Neighbor fence is secure 

[DC_Ms]

36 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

I believe this option only works on cars with front and rear collision prevention or whatever is called rear traffic alert perhaps, excuse me my incompetence I am still stuck in 2010 about cars technology. My gf car has that in reverse and the car automatically stops and switch to N, a bit annoying when I want to park it on my drive but at least the Neighbor fence is secure 

The MY23 on Excel has the Rear Cross Traffic Alert.

In the situation of this thread , the new safety system acceleration suppression at low speeds would have been perfect !

[imbecile]

Pre-collision system uses the front radar and is part of Safety Sense so it is standard on all trims, rear cross traffic alert needs the rear radars for the blind spot monitoring, so it is an option and is market dependent.

If the reason for the accident is indeed mismatched pedals though, as per the user manual: the PCS automatic braking works above 7mph and is overridden if the accelerator pedal is depressed strongly...

 

[Dylanfan]

Just a thought, the re-collision system can be set to three different distances, had you set yours to the closest?

[Jimota]

In the case of the non provision of a courtesy car, I keep going back to the old adage - You only know how good your insurance policy is until you make a claim.  I really sympathise with Alan.

[AisinW]

I am very sorry for the accident. You probably need a lot of repair and may need  new aprons/front frame, hybrid system, electronics, etc.  Often we need the whole new inverter and transaxle but the engine is usually fine. 

I always have a habit to turn the car off right away instead of pressing P button. The hand brake applied automatically anyway.  Pressing P when the car move is also not good and accidentally I did it couple times. So always complete stop and turn off. 

[TonyHSD]

5 minutes ago, AisinW said:

I am very sorry for the accident. You probably need a lot of repair and may need  new aprons/front frame, hybrid system, electronics, etc.  Often we need the whole new inverter and transaxle but the engine is usually fine. 

I always have a habit to turn the car off right away instead of pressing P button. The hand brake applied automatically anyway.  Pressing P when the car move is also not good and accidentally I did it couple times. So always complete stop and turn off. 

Hahaha , I did the same pressed P while driving slow and almost hit my head into the steering wheel. , I pressed P instead of ev button numerous times at 20+mph and nothing.
The Corolla is different, they use the classic gear shifter. In Auris and Prius if you press P when at speeds over 10mph nothing will happen, just beep and continue driving. In Corolla I believe the gear shifter won’t move into P position at higher speeds too. 
Here this brake hold function might have played a bad to the OP.
Thinking if me, I may also become tricked that I had already pressed the brake as the car is stationary and accidentally press the accelerator thinking that my foot is on the brake resulting the same crash. 

[2badmice]

I work in vehicle repairs and recommend you all to take out guaranteed hire car cover if you cannot do without transportation.

 

Yes, you are paying extra on your premiums but with the current climate of no new cars being made on time courtesy cars are scarce.

It's not the fault of neither the repairer or insurance company if you don't chose the above.

[Niky]

On 2/4/2023 at 1:28 PM, Alan Seddon said:

Has anyone had problems with the braking system on the new Corolla (2022 model)

I parked on a hill, put foot on the brake pedal, reached to pull the switch for the handbrake, just in the course of putting the gear lever in the Park position and the car shot forward into a parked Land Rover. I had no way of stopping the collision and a sign came up on the display “hybrid system failure” The car was not in drive and I didn’t have time to get the car into the P position-it ended up in the N position. I am racking my brains to find out what happened. 
Any suggestions? 

https://thedriveradviser.com/6-common-problems-of-a-lexus-es-300h/

Read this article, there is an issue mentioned which seems very much what has happened to you. 

I believe this happened to me too once, although I am not sure what exactly happened - if this makes sense

Started the car and released the brakes straight away. The car was on park( I wasn't pressing the brakes ) but suddenly it kinda jumped ahead which was very weird. I was very close to a wall, but managed to press the brakes before something happened. I am not sure if it would go further enough to hit the wall, but definitely the car moved forward little bit regardless it was on P - just to add it was on a completely flat surface, even on neutral it wouldn't move

Happened only once for 19k miles since new

Will report this to the dealer on my service visit next month 

[TonyHSD]

57 minutes ago, Niky said:

https://thedriveradviser.com/6-common-problems-of-a-lexus-es-300h/

Read this article, there is an issue mentioned which seems very much what has happened to you. 

I believe this happened to me too once, although I am not sure what exactly happened - if this makes sense

Started the car and released the brakes straight away. The car was on park( I wasn't pressing the brakes ) but suddenly it kinda jumped ahead which was very weird. I was very close to a wall, but managed to press the brakes before something happened. I am not sure if it would go further enough to hit the wall, but definitely the car moved forward little bit regardless it was on P - just to add it was on a completely flat surface, even on neutral it wouldn't move

Happened only once for 19k miles since new

Will report this to the dealer on my service visit next month 

That’s not possible to happen on any Toyota Lexus hybrids.
Once you have press brake pedal there is no way the car can move or jump forward. Brake means stopping not accelerating and has nothing to do with vehicle control, or whatever.
Obviously some people are trying to blame car manufacturers for their own mistakes. 
Very often when in P all Toyota Lexus hybrids when ice turns on the car has tendency to “try to move forward “ , but that’s just feeling not actual moving. Toyota brake system automatically apply brake force to all wheels when engine kicks in and the car is in P , also when in P there is a physical parking lock, (hook, pole, ).
When the car is in N there is no torque transferred to the wheels at all. 
The car can only jump forward if D is selected and the accelerator is pushed hard. 
Car manual explains that drivers should never let the car in D while stationary because a sudden acceleration can happen. 
These cars are pretty safe but even so they require correct drivers input to perform at their best and safest way., like anything else automated really. 

[Alan Seddon]

1 hour ago, Niky said:

https://thedriveradviser.com/6-common-problems-of-a-lexus-es-300h/

Read this article, there is an issue mentioned which seems very much what has happened to you. 

I believe this happened to me too once, although I am not sure what exactly happened - if this makes sense

Started the car and released the brakes straight away. The car was on park( I wasn't pressing the brakes ) but suddenly it kinda jumped ahead which was very weird. I was very close to a wall, but managed to press the brakes before something happened. I am not sure if it would go further enough to hit the wall, but definitely the car moved forward little bit regardless it was on P - just to add it was on a completely flat surface, even on neutral it wouldn't move

Happened only once for 19k miles since new

Will report this to the dealer on my service visit next month 

Thanks very much for sharing that Niky. I am still totally perplexed about what happened that day. My car is still in the process of being repaired but I have arranged with my Dealer to have the car fully inspected before I drive it again-not exactly an independent inspection but I can’t do any more really. 

[AndrueC]

On 2/4/2023 at 6:12 PM, Derek.w said:

Strange I was under the impression that at low speeds, cars automatic braking systems will stop you if you do not take action or take the wrong action like hitting the accelerator by mistake.

Yup. Mine has done that twice while parking in my garage when something against the wall had fallen over and reduced the gap to the front bumper. It's quite a violent experience with a big flashing message on the dash. But as noted earlier if you're pushing the accelerator hard enough.

[Alan Seddon]

2 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

Yup. Mine has done that twice while parking in my garage when something against the wall had fallen over and reduced the gap to the front bumper. It's quite a violent experience with a big flashing message on the dash.

Yep-mine was certainly a violent experience as you can see from the state of my car above. I had stopped the car but noticed I was on yellow lines so I drove it about 2 yards up the hill, stopped it again with my foot definitely on my the brake (well 99% certain it was) and it catapulted up the road. How can this happen unless my foot was on the accelerator?

Any Toyota Corolla technicians on here?