High Voltage cable corrosion

[srt]

There has been a lot of coverage in Canada and parts of the USA of corrosion to earlier 2019-2020 Rav4 Hybrids (also affecting PHEV) and where Toyota are refusing to fix the problem as they have not accepted this is  part of the Hybrid system (which it clearly is). So far there have been reports of repairs costing $7k Canadian and owners now putting together a class action against Toyota. The design fault being that water (accelerated where salt is added to grit for snow clearance) is getting into the high voltage wire harness that connects to the MGR and just sits there. The connector acting like a cup as it enters the motor from below. Salt additive accelerating the problem and why Canada is seeing a high number of failures. Salt is used in the UK also so I am surprised there is no mention of this (or any I could find). Toyota "fixed" the problem  for 2021 and 2022 models by removing part of the plastic housing (and thereby exposing the cables) so water can drain away. They have also added a plate below the MRG connector but to me this doesnt seem altogether satisfactory.

Has anyone come across this issue in the UK? Below is from https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/high-voltage-hybrid-cable-corroded.1717458/

[FROSTYBALLS]

Doesn't necessarily mean the same fault will be on European market Rav4's. 

For example previously some owners in the US and Canada had fuel tank issues on their US and Canadian built Ravs, whereas the same issues weren't prevalent in the Japanese built vehicles for the European markets.

[TonyHSD]

This will be warranty repair imo. 

[kucyk]

11 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Doesn't necessarily mean the same fault will be on European market Rav4's. 

For example previously some owners in the US and Canada had fuel tank issues on their US and Canadian built Ravs, whereas the same issues weren't prevalent in the Japanese built vehicles for the European markets.

The issue is affecting European cars as well.

Toyota in the US is now offering 8 years / 100k miles warranty for this, the bulletin number is 22TE09. No idea if this will be introduced in Europe also, most likely will.

[TonyHSD]

Here some of affected cars are still under 5 years manufacturer warranty, some under 3 years and the rest will be taken care with relax warranty. No way a dealer or Toyota uk refuse warranty claim against this fault as clearly its a design fault which been rectified in later models 21-22 cars. The car care nut latest video also mentioned it. 👍

It might be an issue for those who buy used and do not want to go to the dealer for service and warranty repair. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

If it is just the 2019-2020 models, in the UK, they may be covered under the 5 year/100,000 miles new car warranty unless the mileage limit has already been reached.

Other countries in Europe tend to have the 3 year/100,000km new car warranty, so again they may be covered unless the time or kilometre limit has been reached.

As far as I can see the Relax extended warranty doesn't specifically cover this component.

The fact that Toyota US has covered this, doesn't necessarily mean that Toyota Europe or the individual importers will. An example of this is the programme for dealing with pearlescent white paint peeling on some models and action taken by Toyota US/Canada, which wasn't replicated in Europe.

[mobi]

4 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

As far as I can see the Relax extended warranty doesn't specifically cover this component.

Why is that? Isn't Relax warranty same as extended manufacturer's warranty?

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, mobi said:

Why is that? Isn't Relax warranty same as extended manufacturer's warranty?

Look at the attached terms and conditions as to what is covered:

Toyota Relax TCs - 25.05.21_tcm-3060-2286757.pdf

[displaced]

I took the leap yesterday and removed the plug, treated it all with dielectric grease, then reinstated it. I did see some rust starting to form on the collar holding the shielding wire in place, so i suspect the UK cars are affected - looks like they've used a ferrous metal to crimp the shielding wire onto an aluminium body, which is poor metallurgy.

24,000 mile, 2 year 4 month old (2020) Suzuki Across - equivalent of the Rav4 PHEV/Prime.

I did a write up of the operation here as an instructable. The key part is the removal of the service safety plug:

There's a Youtube video (not mine) showing how to remove the safety plug in the Hybrid - it's a similar but smaller plug, and in a different location (under the rear seat bench):

His treatment of the plug with dielectric grease was more measured than mine - I was tired and slapped it on!

 

 

[Cyker]

2 hours ago, mobi said:

Why is that? Isn't Relax warranty same as extended manufacturer's warranty?

We thought it was but it's a lot more restricted, with a list of things it explicitly includes and some things it explicitly excludes.

Not surprising really since they wouldn't want to loose money on a 'free' warranty...

It's better than nothing, but not so good that I'd recommend people take it into account when making a decision.

 

[displaced]

I read the Ts and Cs of the relax plan, as it was a differentiator between the Suzuki and Toyota.

Came to the same conclusion - is not a very comprehensive plan, and you pay a premium every time you get it serviced at the main dealer for the next 10 years to maintain partial coverage.

So I bought a secondhand Suzuki - the higher depreciation on the Suzuki makes them a secondhand bargain.

 

[Derek.w]

Hello Displaced nice photos do you have any corosion inside the pins and is the case just a case or is it connected with a wire to ground?.

[displaced]

Saw no corrosion on the pins themselves - all appeared as bright copper.

The orange case is plastic, not grounded.

The plug is aluminium and is connected to the bare shielding wires you can see that form a mesh around the bundle.

[kucyk]

@displaced if you haven't already, consider unplugging the cable and putting some grease/wax around this rubber gasket. The problem is, when the connector on the cable side corrodes, the rubber gasket doesn't work anymore. Then the water/humidity gets inside, causing corrosion of the plug itself on the engine side resulting in hefty bil for the cable and engine!!! replacement. I saw this on the other forums.

[mobi]

16 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Look at the attached terms and conditions as to what is covered:

Toyota Relax TCs - 25.05.21_tcm-3060-2286757.pdf 103.62 kB · 4 downloads

Thanks for that. How this is different from standard manufacturer's warranty? Is there any list which says things that are covered under manufacturer's warranty but not relax warranty?

[displaced]

48 minutes ago, kucyk said:

@displaced if you haven't already, consider unplugging the cable and putting some grease/wax around this rubber gasket. The problem is, when the connector on the cable side corrodes, the rubber gasket doesn't work anymore. Then the water/humidity gets inside, causing corrosion of the plug itself on the engine side resulting in hefty bil for the cable and engine!!! replacement. I saw this on the other forums.

Already done!

[displaced]

7 minutes ago, mobi said:

Thanks for that. How this is different from standard manufacturer's warranty? Is there any list which says things that are covered under manufacturer's warranty but not relax warranty?

I read it and took some notes previously:

Section 13 exclusions

 - a) Maintenance parts (e.g. [non exhaustive list of examples, which includes diagnostics, so you'd have to pay for this in order to check eligibility to claim. And belts! These should be covered if they have been replaced as per maintenance schedule.] 

 - b) Rubber parts (e.g. [non exhaustive examples of parts that include rubber]);

 - d) Interior (e.g. trims, seat covers, cushions, carpets, ventilation louvers, ash trays, cigarette lighter, shift lever knob, dash cover and pad, steering wheel);

 - h) Certain individual parts and components e.g. [gives non exhaustive list of example parts]

 - i) All parts outside of vehicle body [so inside and outside are both excluded]

 

Section 16 exclusion

 - e) Faults with the Vehicles at the time of service [so if the fault is identified during a service it isn't covered]

Amusingly, cigarette lighters seem to be both included and excluded

[philip42h]

7 minutes ago, mobi said:

Thanks for that. How this is different from standard manufacturer's warranty? Is there any list which says things that are covered under manufacturer's warranty but not relax warranty?

Crucially, it is not a manufacturer's warranty. The three year manufacturer's warranty comes from Toyota (Japan). IIRC the coverage of the manufacturers warranty is set out in the Service Booklet (but I can't be bothered to go and look 😉 )

The earlier Extended Warranty and current Relax Warranty are, in effect, insurance products supplied by Toyota UK. The cover and limitations for these are 'clearly' set out in the corresponding Ts&Cs.

[philip42h]

6 minutes ago, displaced said:

Amusingly, cigarette lighters seem to be both included and excluded

Similarly, the Relax warranty covers: Wiring Looms - and this is most definitely a 'wiring loom' issue ...

... but excludes: 

g) Damage or defects as a result of defects resulting from an external cause and/or natural phenomenon (e.g. water or dust ingress, stone chipping, flooding, icing, storm, natural disasters, accident, fire, explosions, war, civil unrest, sovereign action, wilful or malicious action, unauthorized use, salt, glass erosion and scratches, soiling);

So it would be included and excluded depending upon one's stance! 🙂

Hopefully, it will be treated as a design / manufacture deficiency and addressed that way before we have to find out exactly where we stand in terms of the various warranties ...

(My car is covered by the manufacturer's warranty until October; thereafter two years of Extended Warranty kick in; and only after that do I actually need to rely on the Relax warranty.)

[displaced]

8 hours ago, philip42h said:

g) Damage or defects as a result of defects resulting from an external cause and/or natural phenomenon (e.g. water or dust ingress, stone chipping, flooding, icing, storm, natural disasters, accident, fire, explosions, war, civil unrest, sovereign action, wilful or malicious action, unauthorized use, salt, glass erosion and scratches, soiling);

So nothing inside the vehicle. Nothing outside the vehicle. None of these causes. Nothing spotted during servicing (which is required to maintain the warranty).

I don't think Toyota UK's insurers will ever have to pay out on this warranty.

[FROSTYBALLS]

At the end of the day, it is the owners choice whether they continue with Toyota dealer network servicing and the Relax warranty, go outside the dealer network and pay for an extended warranty, go outside the dealer network and not have an extended warranty, or do their own servicing.

If you don't like the Relax warranty, go elsewhere.

[mobi]

On 2/7/2023 at 9:18 PM, displaced said:

So nothing inside the vehicle. Nothing outside the vehicle. None of these causes. Nothing spotted during servicing (which is required to maintain the warranty).

I don't think Toyota UK's insurers will ever have to pay out on this warranty.

It was bit mean for Toyota to reduce manufacturer's warranty from 5 to 3 years! They simply could have introduced Relax on top of manufacturer's existing 5-yr warranty. Toyota must have calculated that extra cost for Relax will be balanced by charging warranty work to customers between 3rd and 5th year.

Renault once offered 5 years warranty but then silently reduced it to 3 year again.  

[FROSTYBALLS]

Relax has already been discussed at length in other topics - for example:

Please return to this topic's subject 'high voltage cable corrosion'.

[mfleeson]

My car came up with this error and the AA found the error codes identical to the USA ones

I was told by my toyota garage to get the AA to recover it to them where they confirmed the corrosion on a 69 Rav 4. They ordered the parts on Good Friday and are still waiting.

I ended up having to hire a car cos the garage had no spare cars to loan. How long can toyota be given to supply a part?

[kucyk]

On 4/23/2023 at 1:36 PM, mfleeson said:

My car came up with this error and the AA found the error codes identical to the USA ones

I was told by my toyota garage to get the AA to recover it to them where they confirmed the corrosion on a 69 Rav 4. They ordered the parts on Good Friday and are still waiting.

I ended up having to hire a car cos the garage had no spare cars to loan. How long can toyota be given to supply a part?

They will be most likely replacing the whole engine as the connector is also likely corroded, so give it a month or two ...