Yaris Cross timing belt or chain?

[chris01942]

Hi all, can anyone confirm whether they Yaris Cross has a timing belt or chain?

Cheers, Chris 

[TonyHSD]

Hi, 

Chain driven engine. There is somewhere in the posts very thorough information about the engine shared by flash22 . But no idea how to find it for you. Definitely will be interesting to se it. 👍

[FROSTYBALLS]

Chain. See: https://mymotorlist.com/engines/toyota/m15a-fxe/#:~:text=The 1.5-liter Toyota M15A-FXE hybrid engine was unveiled,belongs to the Dynamic Force Engine 2.0 series.

[TonyHSD]

Lol, this information it’s even more interesting: 

“Recommended oil 0w20, engine lifespan 250000 km, egr problems at around 100k km, coolant leaking into cylinders “.  
Fuel recommended high quality, perhaps low ethanol content. 👍

[Max_Headroom]

 

This is a bit of a worry especially if you intend to keep the car.

Disadvantages of the M15A-FXE engine

• A compression ratio of 14.0 hints at rather high requirements for fuel quality.
• In specialized forums, they only complain about leaks in the EGR liquid cooler.
• This heat exchanger can even crack and antifreeze will fall directly into the engine cylinders.
• After 100,000 km, the EGR valve often becomes clogged with deposits and completely jams.

[TonyHSD]

1 minute ago, Max_Headroom said:

 

This is a bit of a worry especially if you intend to keep the car.

Disadvantages of the M15A-FXE engine

• A compression ratio of 14.0 hints at rather high requirements for fuel quality.
• In specialized forums, they only complain about leaks in the EGR liquid cooler.
• This heat exchanger can even crack and antifreeze will fall directly into the engine cylinders.
• After 100,000 km, the EGR valve often becomes clogged with deposits and completely jams.

I believe this info it’s not necessarily true and perhaps does not include all cars equipped with this engine. Perhaps some early mk4 Yaris.
The egr system does indeed need cleaning at around 100k miles .
I have done mine and it’s all documented here and soon will need to do again as its just pass 100k miles mark. Its a manual work more than anything else and only requires few gaskets and a couple of cleaning sprays 2-4 cans. 👍

[flash22]

Fuels across Europe are very hit and miss especially Italy where the bulk of EGR issues arise

I don't think Toyota sells a new car with a timing belt, unlike some manufacture that have devolved to using a wet belt (catastrophic in a modern diesel)

https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/20-08-01_faq_df_r3_en.htm

[Max_Headroom]

10 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

I believe this info it’s not necessarily true and perhaps does not include all cars equipped with this engine. Perhaps some early mk4 Yaris.
The egr system does indeed need cleaning at around 100k miles .

 

Would using EGR cleaner when getting towards the 100k stop tou having to manually clean it?

What symptoms does it give if it blocks?

 

[TonyHSD]

1 minute ago, Max_Headroom said:

 

Would using EGR cleaner when getting towards the 100k stop tou having to manually clean it?

What symptoms does it give if it blocks?

 

No egr cleaner as additives in the fuel. It will require manual dismantling of the parts , cleaning with brushes and spray. It’s a few hours job. Dealer and some other mechanics perhaps will replace the parts but in many cases this is no need, just strip it off, clean and put back all together. This applies for previous hybrids gen 3 but in gen 4 things are very similar so it will be pretty much similar process. Here there is a major difference that the egr cooler is connected post catalytic converter and the gasses will be somewhat cleaner and should not be needed so frequent cleaning procedures. Most of the first and second owners won’t even know about it. 👍

[forkingabout]

9 minutes ago, flash22 said:

unlike some manufacture that have devolved to using a wet belt

Former Peugeot 308 Purecrap 130 owner here.

The Purecrap wet belt debacle is costing Stellantis lots of money in wet belt & also engine replacements not alone the reputational damage. 

[Max_Headroom]

2 minutes ago, forkingabout said:

Former Peugeot 308 Purecrap 130 owner here.

The Purecrap wet belt debacle is costing Stellantis lots of money in wet belt & also engine replacements not alone the reputational damage. 

This is why i didn't buy another Vauxhall and looked for cars with a timing chain, belt in oil is going to be a nightmare when second hand cars get to a high mileage and its never been changed i have seen a video where several mechanics if given the job of changing cam belt would have only done the external one, there may be trouble ahead!

[anchorman]

19 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

No egr cleaner as additives in the fuel. It will require manual dismantling of the parts , cleaning with brushes and spray. It’s a few hours job. Dealer and some other mechanics perhaps will replace the parts but in many cases this is no need, just strip it off, clean and put back all together. This applies for previous hybrids gen 3 but in gen 4 things are very similar so it will be pretty much similar process. Here there is a major difference that the egr cooler is connected post catalytic converter and the gasses will be somewhat cleaner and should not be needed so frequent cleaning procedures. Most of the first and second owners won’t even know about it. 👍

High grade fuel is laced with detergent.  

[anchorman]

27 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

 

Would using EGR cleaner when getting towards the 100k stop tou having to manually clean it?

What symptoms does it give if it blocks?

 

I think what Tony is alluding to is that prevention is better than cure.  The use of high grade fuel or an additive like Millers from day one is the way forward for someone wanting to keep their car long term.  

[flash22]

New transit 2.0 diesel is a wet belt, a rubber belt in oil then add a habit of dumping fuel into the oil, plus ad blue

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Lol, this information it’s even more interesting: 

“Recommended oil 0w20

It is an American website and neither the current Yaris or the Yaris Cross are sold in the US - the smallest model now on sale there is the Corolla. So the oil information is wrong. As simple as that.

[Cyker]

I just wanted to address some of these:

• A compression ratio of 14.0 hints at rather high requirements for fuel quality.

I think whoever wrote this doesn't understand the M15A-FXE is an Atkinson/Miller-cycle capable engine, so the 14:1 compression ratio quoted doesn't have the same connotations as it does in a straight Otto-cycle engine. Regardless, the car is designed to run on normal petrol and the ECU will also make sure it can under any conditions, so this theory of more specialized fuel being needed is demonstrably false. (If it wasn't, mine would have blown up by now  )

 

• In specialized forums, they only complain about leaks in the EGR liquid cooler.
• This heat exchanger can even crack and antifreeze will fall directly into the engine cylinders.

I believe these are specific to a chlorine-contaminated fuel issue that happened in Italy, due to the chlorine attacking the aluminium alloy, causing it to corrode and fail; So far the problem has only occurred there, in that specific case. I've not heard of it since or elsewhere.

• After 100,000 km, the EGR valve often becomes clogged with deposits and completely jams.

Maybe in a diesel, but I'd be very surprised if the EGR in a petrol engine had any issues with deposits over the course of its life, unless it was only used occasionally for short journeys, but that would negatively affect any combustion engine. Even so, 100,000km is lot of mileage for a problem to occur at so does this even really count as a disadvantage!?

 

[Gray86]

I bet hardly any of these have done 100k miles to gather enough data to prove the point. They have likely just assumed the EGR will clog, because previous gen engines did 

[Bernard Foy]

4 hours ago, chris01942 said:

Hi all, can anyone confirm whether they Yaris Cross has a timing belt or chain?

Cheers, Chris 

I know this is slightly off topic, my memory tells that the first Yaris model had a timing chain.???

[FROSTYBALLS]

33 minutes ago, Bernard Foy said:

I know this is slightly off topic, my memory tells that the first Yaris model had a timing chain.???

The SZ series - designed by Daihatsu and Toyota and used by both manufacturers - did use a chain.

[RobertR]

I'm half a year on this forum and it's hardly any mechanical issues with yaris/cross topics here. People just solve noises, maintenance, or what lightbulb to put into headlights..and if we forget 12V Battery issues(possibly causet purely bad Battery behavior (even during importer transport) or bad Battery quality) there is zero mechanical issues with this car.

Go to VW or Ford forums, every other topic will be about "my engine is dead, what to do" or " my car put itself into safe mode on a highway" so please, these trifles that we solving are nothing.

This little 3 pot hybrid engine is just fine. Don't worry. If your car gets proper maintenance and the driver will have brain inside the head, we will be fine 🙂

 

Here is more general information about our engine hybrid and non-hybrid 

https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/20-08-01_faq_df_r3_en.htm

[chris01942]

15 hours ago, Cyker said:

I just wanted to address some of these:

• A compression ratio of 14.0 hints at rather high requirements for fuel quality.

I think whoever wrote this doesn't understand the M15A-FXE is an Atkinson/Miller-cycle capable engine, so the 14:1 compression ratio quoted doesn't have the same connotations as it does in a straight Otto-cycle engine. Regardless, the car is designed to run on normal petrol and the ECU will also make sure it can under any conditions, so this theory of more specialized fuel being needed is demonstrably false. (If it wasn't, mine would have blown up by now  )

 

• In specialized forums, they only complain about leaks in the EGR liquid cooler.
• This heat exchanger can even crack and antifreeze will fall directly into the engine cylinders.

I believe these are specific to a chlorine-contaminated fuel issue that happened in Italy, due to the chlorine attacking the aluminium alloy, causing it to corrode and fail; So far the problem has only occurred there, in that specific case. I've not heard of it since or elsewhere.

• After 100,000 km, the EGR valve often becomes clogged with deposits and completely jams.

Maybe in a diesel, but I'd be very surprised if the EGR in a petrol engine had any issues with deposits over the course of its life, unless it was only used occasionally for short journeys, but that would negatively affect any combustion engine. Even so, 100,000km is lot of mileage for a problem to occur at so does this even really count as a disadvantage!?

 

I've got a Mk3 Ford Focus diesel (2012) it's on approx 150k miles (oil & filter change every 5k miles from new). Most of them are motorway miles & not had any issues with the EGR valve touch wood. Watch this, next time I drive it, It'll play up 😂

[TonyHSD]

I meant with or without good quality fuel or additives added on top by the driver the egr system on any car including ours will need cleaning at certain point. 100k miles + for example. 

The symptoms that point towards egr issues on Toyota hybrids all engines are vibrations at around 40mph light load of the ice and at around 60mph at light load of the ice. Also engine knocking at cold start after car been seating for days and at low speeds with low Battery and engine running under load to recharge your Battery, accelerate and release accelerator then you may hear a horrible metallic knocking.
These conditions are exactly when the egr come into play and any blockage will upset the normal engine operation. The knocking is from the clutch. Can even break the springs if exceed the damper capability. 

I was thinking before that my Toyota engine is green as leaf 🍃 until I needed to open and see inside the egr valve, cooler, pipes, intake manifold, and intake ports of the engine. I had the exact symptoms explained above, I also visit Toyota dealer to speak to their service manager he confirmed that and suggested to do cleaning or replace egr. 
When I opened back in 2020 at 140k miles I was shocked, was that a Diesel engine or petrol, everything covered in dark soot, carbon, and hard cooking like burnt oven trays 😂 . The only clean bit were the valves which btw looked like on a new car, clean greyish colour, no deposits at all. There was also around 200ml of engine oil seating in the intake manifold below the throttle body. 
This is 1.8 hybrid 2010-2018 , all Toyota Lexus models that comes with. 
Your Yaris are slightly different but not by much so expect similar service care. Btw no need to replace anything, except silicone gasket on the manifold, all others are metal and can be reused twice or more. 

[Cyker]

Maybe you need to do what I do and take it on a massive thrash now and then   

But I must admit that doesn't even look that bad; You should see what a 1.4 D4D EGR valve looks like after a week  

 

19 hours ago, Bernard Foy said:

I know this is slightly off topic, my memory tells that the first Yaris model had a timing chain.???

You are right! Every single Yaris from the 1.0L Mk1 and 1.4D4D to the Mk4 1.5 have all had timing chains!

In fact, I can't think of any vaguely recent Toyota engine that used a belt in this country - The last one I know of is the 1CD-FTV used in the previous gen Corolla and Corolla Verso 2.0L diesel and that was about 2 decades ago!

[anchorman]

I’ve run side by side tests with normal and high grade diesel and the difference between EGRs was night and day better with high grade. It doesn’t cost a lot of difference in a Yaris so no question what I’m using.  

[flash22]

The only (not a Toyota) Toyota i can think of with a belt is the Proace