Yaris Cross timing belt or chain?

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, anchorman said:

I’ve run side by side tests with normal and high grade diesel and the difference between EGRs was night and day better with high grade. It doesn’t cost a lot of difference in a Yaris so no question what I’m using.  

Do you fill up at particular petrol stations or anywhere? 
I fill up exclusively at Tesco with their momentum E5 99, the engine is running the smoothest, the consumption is lowest and overall very good., plus the price is same as regular E10 95 from other garages. 👍

[anchorman]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Do you fill up at particular petrol stations or anywhere? 
I fill up exclusively at Tesco with their momentum E5 99, the engine is running the smoothest, the consumption is lowest and overall very good., plus the price is same as regular E10 95 from other garages. 👍

I’ve been filling up at Esso because it’s zero ethanol and double detergent.  I’ve used Tesco but while the octane is boosted, I can’t find any reference to extra detergent.  

[Jimota]

Tony, could you give a bit more detail on your conclusions between the E5 and E10 fuels.  I have often wondered if higher grade fuel is worth the extra pennies.

[Jimota]

Just completed a check of fuel prices in my area and E5 petrol ranges between 6p and 12p a litre above the E10 grade.  Cheapest was my local Sainsbury’s at £1.48 a litre but being a Costco member, if I go to their Glasgow depot I can get it for £1.44 a litre.

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, Jimota said:

Tony, could you give a bit more detail on your conclusions between the E5 and E10 fuels.  I have often wondered if higher grade fuel is worth the extra pennies.

Hi James, 

I have done this already many times, but I will do again for you 👍

The major difference I noticed immediately is that with E10 the engine becomes significantly noisier, the noise sounds like metallic, tiny high frequency vibrations, very similar to underpowered scooter motorbike 49cc . Lack of power and throttle response is slow. Also the switch from ev to ice always comes with a thud like new driver in manual car dump the clutch for example and last but not least the mpg goes down 3-5mpg straight away, the colder the weather the more mpg I loose. 
I have not been interested much in additives as cleaning agents in the fuel because I do run best in business wynns fuel additives from time to time but the way the car drives is totally different and makes it worth every penny. Some drivers doesn’t feel the difference between e5 and e10 but I do every time I switch between both. With E5 99 the car is smooth as large Lexus hybrid, quiet as large Mercedes’ and fast as bmw 😂👌

[Max_Headroom]

How many miles would £20 of E5 get me compared to £20 of E10?
Assuming a car is getting 45 miles to the gallon, a 1.7% increase in fuel consumption would reduce that fuel economy to 44.2 miles per gallon (mpg), AA calculations show us. That is a plus or minus 0.8 miles per gallon depending on which fuel you are converting from and to.

E10 – With 4.5461 litres in a gallon, petrol at the current average of 163.5p a litre would equal £7.43 a gallon. Divide that by 45 and the fuel cost per mile is 16.5p a mile. £20 therefore gets you 121 miles.
E5 – Were E10 and E5 the same price, E5’s better fuel economy at 45.8mpg would give a cost of 16.2p a mile. So £20 would get you 123.5 miles.
But E5 is more expensive than E10 at 166.4p a litre, or £7.56 a gallon – divide that by E5’s 45.8mpg and the cost per mile is 16.5p, and £20 would therefore get you 121 miles.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/money-mentor/answer/is-e5-petrol-more-economical-than-e10/#:~:text=E10 – With 4.5461 litres in,cost of 16.2p a mile.

[TonyHSD]

My calculations are easier: 

E10 95 at local BP or Shell cost £1.45 a litre

E5 99 at local Tesco cost £1.46 a litre 

Mpg with E5 always more 3-5 it’s a win win 👍

[Jimota]

32 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Hi James, 

I have done this already many times, but I will do again for you 👍

The major difference I noticed immediately is that with E10 the engine becomes significantly noisier, the noise sounds like metallic, tiny high frequency vibrations, very similar to underpowered scooter motorbike 49cc . Lack of power and throttle response is slow. Also the switch from ev to ice always comes with a thud like new driver in manual car dump the clutch for example and last but not least the mpg goes down 3-5mpg straight away, the colder the weather the more mpg I loose. 
I have not been interested much in additives as cleaning agents in the fuel because I do run best in business wynns fuel additives from time to time but the way the car drives is totally different and makes it worth every penny. Some drivers doesn’t feel the difference between e5 and e10 but I do every time I switch between both. With E5 99 the car is smooth as large Lexus hybrid, quiet as large Mercedes’ and fast as bmw 😂👌

Thanks very much Tony, you raise some very interesting points and I think I’ll top up with E5 next time and see what the results are like.  Any particular reason why you switch between both grades?

[TonyHSD]

14 minutes ago, Jimota said:

Thanks very much Tony, you raise some very interesting points and I think I’ll top up with E5 next time and see what the results are like.  Any particular reason why you switch between both grades?

Availability and convenience. I fill up every second day and prefer my local Tesco but not always drive past it therefore sometimes have no option and fill up at Shell or bp and because their e5 it’s more expensive  12-15p more than e10 I fill up with e10 and then the difference comes up straight away. Next time back to e5 and the car feels nicer again.
You need to use at least half of the tank or even more before fill up with different grade fuel so you can make a better opinion if anything changes for you. Some people says they never noticed a difference. Try to monitor these 3 points:

1. Sharper throttle response 

2. Smoother switch ev->ice

3. Quieter engine especially when heavier acceleration 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Even before E10 was introduced, we often used super unleaded (BP, Shell or Tesco) especially when going on a run as the cars seemed to run better. Not especially interested in any supposed  improvement in fuel economy.

Nowadays Tesco Momentum is the usual choice as it is the same price as E10 at the BP service station opposite our Tesco Extra. Momentum used to be advertised as Tesco's best additive package. Although if Tesco is rammed, BP is used.

[anchorman]

28 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Availability and convenience. I fill up every second day and prefer my local Tesco but not always drive past it therefore sometimes have no option and fill up at shell or bp and because their e5 it’s more expensive  12-15p more than e10 I fill up with e10 and then the difference comes up straight away. Next time back to e5 and the car feels nicer again.
You need to use at least half of the tank or even more before fill up with different grade fuel so you can make a better opinion if anything changes for you. Some people says they never noticed a difference. Try to monitor these 3 points:

1. Sharper throttle response 

2. Smoother switch ev->ice

3. Quieter engine especially when heavier acceleration 

While you’re putting people off due to price, the cost of filling a Yaris is always less due to the smaller tank.  It depends how long they keep the car as to whether the real savings in significant repairs are realised.   Incidentally, I got quite big improvements switching from regular fuel to super - anything up to 10mpg in warm weather.  Agree there is a tangible difference in noise and smoothness.  

[Jimota]

So far I haven’t experienced any roughness or lack of refinement during the switch from EV to ICE but looking forward to seeing the results you highlighted in points 1 and 3.  👍

[Max_Headroom]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

My calculations are easier: 

E10 95 at local BP or Shell cost £1.45 a litre

E5 99 at local Tesco cost £1.46 a litre 

Mpg with E5 always more 3-5 it’s a win win 👍

They may be easier but unfortunately for me the price differences are huge, i have checked petrol prices.com and mine are -

Tesco Unleaded = 145.9p

Tesco Super unleaded = 152.9p

No win for us.

 

[forkingabout]

5 hours ago, flash22 said:

The only (not a Toyota) Toyota i can think of with a belt is the Proace

Good old PSA / Stellantis Badge engineering - the field lads have nothing good to say about them & neither do the Toyota dealer technicians when they take them in. 

Whenever I pop in my local Toyota dealer at least one of the company vans is in for some kind of repair. 

I believe the fleet dept is even looking at non Proace options for future replacements. 

[Cyker]

8 hours ago, anchorman said:

I’ve run side by side tests with normal and high grade diesel and the difference between EGRs was night and day better with high grade. It doesn’t cost a lot of difference in a Yaris so no question what I’m using.  

Yeah, it's surprising how much cleaner burning the V-Power diesel was in my old D4D than my normal Sainsburys ilk. It even changed the performance metrics of the car! (Slight loss of low-end torque but ran a lot smoother so you could run it to higher RPMs without the engine feeling like it's about to jump out  )

The car definitely benefited from a tank of the stuff every few tanks and it helped stave off the performance drop from driving it in slow city traffic half the time.

 

48 minutes ago, Jimota said:

So far I haven’t experienced any roughness or lack of refinement during the switch from EV to ICE but looking forward to seeing the results you highlighted in points 1 and 3.  👍

I find it's more noticeable when the engine is stone cold, but once everything's warmed up it's pretty seamless.

 

51 minutes ago, anchorman said:

While you’re putting people off due to price, the cost of filling a Yaris is always less due to the smaller tank.  It depends how long they keep the car as to whether the real savings in significant repairs are realised.   Incidentally, I got quite big improvements switching from regular fuel to super - anything up to 10mpg in warm weather.  Agree there is a tangible difference in noise and smoothness.  

The novelty of only getting in 22-28L of fuel yet doing 300-500 miles still hasn't worn off for me  

 

[flash22]

Van wise no matter the brand they are all French based apart from the ford with their wonderful ecoblue/duratorq

 

Merc and VW have their own issues

[Max_Headroom]

I used  run Shell V power in my Corsa when they brought in E10 as i didn't trust them saying it will be OK to use in a 14 year old car, i did notice the difference not so much the MPG but it seemed smoother and quieter (i don't think it was in my head) 

 

Helps to Reduce Engine Friction

Shell V-Power Unleaded contains a friction reducing ingredient, which is designed to get to work at the heart of your engine to help critical parts move more freely. Go with our best performance fuel.

 

Helps to Clean Intake Valves and/or Fuel Injector Nozzle

When you clean your shower head with a limescale remover, you see a big improvement in your shower spray’s performance. It is similar with Shell V-Power fuels; by helping remove built-up deposits that have already formed on the intake valves and/or fuel injector nozzles, it helps to restore your engine’s performance

 

Helps to Clean Key Fuel System Components

Shell V-Power fuels act like a soapy sponge. Thanks to boosted cleaning technology, they help to clean and protect, giving you our best cleaning power for your engine

 

Our best performance fuels

Shell V-Power Unleaded Fuel delivers our very best performance with up to 4% more power. Shell V-Power Unleaded formulation is boosted and now contains 3 x more cleaning and friction reducing additives

https://www.shell.co.uk/motorist/v-power-fuels/v-power-unleaded.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

[forkingabout]

45 minutes ago, flash22 said:

Van wise no matter the brand they are all French based apart from the ford with their wonderful ecoblue/duratorq

 

Merc and VW have their own issues

Lucky my job role doesn't require a company vehicle so no Proace for me 🥳

I do know there is a company Hi Ace still on the fleet but it's rarely seen these days, it's an emergency back up van & lives a sheltered mostly retired life now.

[JoaoM]

On 2/6/2023 at 9:03 PM, Cyker said:

I just wanted to address some of these:

• A compression ratio of 14.0 hints at rather high requirements for fuel quality.

I think whoever wrote this doesn't understand the M15A-FXE is an Atkinson/Miller-cycle capable engine, so the 14:1 compression ratio quoted doesn't have the same connotations as it does in a straight Otto-cycle engine. Regardless, the car is designed to run on normal petrol and the ECU will also make sure it can under any conditions, so this theory of more specialized fuel being needed is demonstrably false. (If it wasn't, mine would have blown up by now  )

 

• In specialized forums, they only complain about leaks in the EGR liquid cooler.
• This heat exchanger can even crack and antifreeze will fall directly into the engine cylinders.

I believe these are specific to a chlorine-contaminated fuel issue that happened in Italy, due to the chlorine attacking the aluminium alloy, causing it to corrode and fail; So far the problem has only occurred there, in that specific case. I've not heard of it since or elsewhere.

• After 100,000 km, the EGR valve often becomes clogged with deposits and completely jams.

Maybe in a diesel, but I'd be very surprised if the EGR in a petrol engine had any issues with deposits over the course of its life, unless it was only used occasionally for short journeys, but that would negatively affect any combustion engine. Even so, 100,000km is lot of mileage for a problem to occur at so does this even really count as a disadvantage!?

 

Have you read my mind? I was going to write exactly the same about the 14:1 compression ratio!

Regarding the EGR clogging, the 1.5 hybrid is an indirect injection only engine, therefore less prone to produce soot than the bigger brothers M20A and A25 from the dynamic force family that have both indirect and direct injection.

I'm not saying it will not happen but there are much worse cases (1.0 and 1.2 DI turbos from competition).

Timing belt? I'm a Toyota driver, I don't recall what a timing belt is...

[forkingabout]

3 minutes ago, JoaoM said:

Have you read my mind? I was going to write exactly the same about the 14:1 compression ratio!

Regarding the EGR clogging, the 1.5 hybrid is an indirect injection only engine, therefore less prone to produce soot than the bigger brothers M20A and A25 from the dynamic force family that have both indirect and direct injection.

Toyota D-4S system.

If you get ever bored you can play the game of - can I hear the direct injection fuel pump running 🤣

[JoaoM]

8 minutes ago, forkingabout said:

Toyota D-4S system.

If you get ever bored you can play the game of - can I hear the direct injection fuel pump running 🤣

Yes, I can 😅. But the hybrid Yaris owners can't. That's the punishment for driving such a frugal car!

[Max_Headroom]

 

I have edited this part of my earlier post as i said as i said E5 not E10  🙄

 

 

I used  run Shell V power in my Corsa when they brought in E10 as i didn't trust them saying it will be OK to use in a 14 year old car, i did notice the difference not so much the MPG but it seemed smoother and quieter (i don't think it was in my head) 

 

Helps to Reduce Engine Friction

Shell V-Power Unleaded contains a friction reducing ingredient, which is designed to get to work at the heart of your engine to help critical parts move more freely. Go with our best performance fuel.

 

Helps to Clean Intake Valves and/or Fuel Injector Nozzle

When you clean your shower head with a limescale remover, you see a big improvement in your shower spray’s performance. It is similar with Shell V-Power fuels; by helping remove built-up deposits that have already formed on the intake valves and/or fuel injector nozzles, it helps to restore your engine’s performance

 

Helps to Clean Key Fuel System Components

Shell V-Power fuels act like a soapy sponge. Thanks to boosted cleaning technology, they help to clean and protect, giving you our best cleaning power for your engine

 

Our best performance fuels

Shell V-Power Unleaded Fuel delivers our very best performance with up to 4% more power. Shell V-Power Unleaded formulation is boosted and now contains 3 x more cleaning and friction reducing additives

https://www.shell.co.uk/motorist/v-power-fuels/v-power-unleaded.html

[Trewithy]

I was with my daughter this morning when she stopped at an Esso station and filled with standard E10 95 octane. at 149.9p.  I noticed that their E5 99 octane was 20p more per litre, unbelievable.  Tesco E5 99 that I sometimes use is 8p more than standard unleaded.

[TonyHSD]

4 minutes ago, Trewithy said:

I was with my daughter this morning when she stopped at an Esso station and filled with standard E10 95 octane. at 149.9p.  I noticed that their E5 99 octane was 20p more per litre, unbelievable.  Tesco E5 99 that I sometimes use is 8p more than standard unleaded.

And they are the same fuels from the same supplier. I run previously esso 99 during the fuel crisis 2021 and no difference with Tesco 99. 👍

[Trewithy]

1 minute ago, TonyHSD said:

And they are the same fuels from the same supplier. I run previously esso 99 during the fuel crisis 2021 and no difference with Tesco 99. 👍

Yes they are from the same supplier.  Esso have a contract with Greenergy to supply their fuels nationwide.  I believe Greenergy is 25% owned by Tesco and deliver not only to Tesco but to most other supermarkets.  There is a Greenergy terminal in Plymouth and when I drive past I see tankers from a number of different fuel company's and supermarkets.  Interestingly nearby Texaco have their own depot.  All the fuel for the southwest is shipped Plymouth by tanker.