Yaris Cross timing belt or chain?

[Max_Headroom]

1 hour ago, Trewithy said:

I was with my daughter this morning when she stopped at an Esso station and filled with standard E10 95 octane. at 149.9p.  I noticed that their E5 99 octane was 20p more per litre, unbelievable.  Tesco E5 99 that I sometimes use is 8p more than standard unleaded.

I checked our local Shell garages and  - 

Unleaded = 147p litre

Super unleaded = 162p litre 

At least Dlck Turpin wore a mask!

 

[Cyker]

It depends as Super unleaded isn't the same as the fancy fuels - Normal super unleaded is basically just the same as E10 but is E5 (Or less), and generally doesn't have any benefit over E10 unless your car needs or can take advantage of high octane fuel.

Things like V-Power and Synergy and Excellellelllenenenium and Momentum and all those other super fancy ones have a load of other stuff ("Allegedly"), e.g. synthetic fuel, higher % of cleaning agents, lubricity enhancers, burn modifiers etc. so they can charge even more for them!

[forkingabout]

Local Esso Supreme+ 99 unleaded E5 was 162.9 pence per litre when I filled up on Tuesday.

I don't bother to check the E10 price or supermarkets forecourts anymore.

[Cyker]

A10 Sainsburys was still 143.9 on the way down this morning!

 

One thing I've always wondered is why nobody uses gears instead of chains or belts to drive camshafts. It just seems like that would solve so many of the problems!

And what happened to e.g. Freevalve?? I'm always surprised it took so long for someone to even think about doing away with camshafts and just have an electronically or pneumatically operated valve train, but it looks like it won't even get to market before the ICEpocalypse!

[Max_Headroom]

 

[Max_Headroom]

 

 

Quote

One thing I've always wondered is why nobody uses gears instead of chains or belts to drive camshaft

NO chain or belt - 

 

[Cyker]

It's well known that E-anything reduces MPG; Ethanol has only something like 66% the energy of petrol, so with E10 you lose about 6% energy per tank.

There are a lot of people, myself included, who think these ethanol blends are stupid and have no actual benefit, as although they produce less CO2 per unit burned, you have to burn more units to get the same power, so it doesn't actually make any difference. If anything it makes things worse as we are wasting land to grow crops that are used as feedstock to make ethanol, when we could be using it to, say, grow food, and the creation of ethanol is not carbon free - From everything I've read, ethanol-blend fuels actually create a net-increase in carbon emissions!

There are only really 2 good things I'm aware of about it - 1) It's sustainable; Can't make more oil, but we can make more ethanol. 2) It is a good octane booster (And a lot less toxic than lead! Ironically it was used as an octane booster originally, but high taxes on alcohol and the company that invented lead additive lobbying heavily for its use is why we ended up poisoning everyone for years...), but it's only when you get to higher concentrations of Ethanol do you get the big benefits - A lot of people in the racing scene do E85 conversions as you can run very high compression ratios without detonation (But it uses so much fuel they usually need more powerful fuel pumps and high volume injectors  )

14 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

NO chain or belt - 

YES!! That is exactly what I mean! What engine is that and why don't more of them have that?? No need for guides that wear out or tensioners that fail, belts that jump or snap or chains that rattle... I don't get why nobody does this!

 

[Max_Headroom]

2 minutes ago, Cyker said:

YES!! That is exactly what I mean! What engine is that and why don't more of them have that?? No need for guides that wear out or tensioners that fail, belts that jump or snap or chains that rattle... I don't get why nobody does this!

I think its a Ferrari, the reason they don't use this method is as you say -

No need for guides that wear out or tensioners that fail, belts that jump or snap or chains that rattle.

And no belts to replace every time they tell you it needs changing because its done X amount of miles not because it is worn.

[TonyHSD]

There is a huge difference between E5 and E10 , the lesser amount of ethanol content.
This is the big deal not the higher octane numbers or cleaning agents inside. Before the switch to E10 in UK I was running my cars almost always on 95 E5 and rarely on 99 E5 or E0 depending on what was available at any one moment when refilling. I never noticed this engine noise like tiny vibrations, and louder exhaust noise when pushed.
However very similar noises had been sensed by me on previous car when just before due to its engine oil service the engine was sounding exactly the same , like there is higher metal friction on internal parts and the engine was somewhat felt like it’s been working harder , more vibrations and less power. Also when coming off the motorway (same sleep road same junction) and release accelerator the car was stopping ( loose inertia) faster than when with new oil, that was 1.6 petrol manual lancer., can’t test that on the hybrid, ice switches off as soon as you release accelerator. 
Put a new oil in and the car engine becomes smooth, quiet and more responsive again, no noise, no vibrations, this is exactly the same feeling my Toyota hybrid engine does when switching between E5 and E10. 
When the engine sounds smother and quieter I believe it will be healthier too. 

[Cyker]

It makes sense as your engine was designed to run on E5 - E10 is effectively 'contaminated fuel' from its point of view.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

28 minutes ago, Cyker said:

...... as your engine was designed to run on E5

Doubtful. Other European countries (France, Germany, etc) have had E10 for a number of years before the UK, and from 2016 the European test cycles (NEDC and WLTP) standardised on using E10 for the testing regime.

The Toyota Dynamic Force engines introduced in 2018 (used in the Corolla, C-HR, Yaris Cross, etc) will have been designed to use E10.

[Cyker]

Yeah, that's why I was saying the older ones were probably designed to run on E5 - I've only got mine to go on, but from my own experiments it seems to make little to no noticeable difference whether it's running on E5 or E10, while everyone on the older engines have all said they run noticeably better on E5.

Presumably the older ones would have been certified to run on E10, but I would imagine they would have been optimised for E5. Remember the engine would likely have started its design a long time prior to the introduction of E10, so likely would only have had modifications to support E10 much later after the fact. The DF engines would have been designed for E10 from the ground up.

Actually, I wonder if the DF engines can tell what they're running on and use different maps, like a rudimentary flex-fuel vehicle, or if they only have the one map.

[YarisHybrid2016]

My car is rocketing to 90k MILES, and all seems fine regarding EGR. Next service has it scheduled for a clean, but I drive it pretty hard and things sometimes get hot to the point of smelling. Not sure if good or bad, but runs smooth as silk and not burning oil. I'm always sure to drive gentle and let it warm up (while driving) before really making demands. 1NZ-FXE engine.

It definitely sounds different on E10 vs. E5. I only run E5 now, regardless of price. I tried to control for "confirmation bias". Not my imagination. E10 is a scam!

[TonyHSD]

14 minutes ago, YarisHybrid2016 said:

My car is rocketing to 90k MILES, and all seems fine regarding EGR. Next service has it scheduled for a clean, but I drive it pretty hard and things sometimes get hot to the point of smelling. Not sure if good or bad, but runs smooth as silk and not burning oil. I'm always sure to drive gentle and let it warm up (while driving) before really making demands. 1NZ-FXE engine.

It definitely sounds different on E10 vs. E5. I only run E5 now, regardless of price. I tried to control for "confirmation bias". Not my imagination. E10 is a scam!

Indeed, E5 it’s much better than E10. 
For the egr, on any car no matter how hard been driven or why fuel been used after some time and mileage all egr s needs cleaning, this particulate matter that accumulates on them usually goes into the atmosphere of the car has no egr. On some cars egr blockage doesn’t cause much of an issue but on others it does a big time. 👍

[Jimota]

Quick update.  Since filling up with E5 fuel last week, according to my digital display, the improvement in consumption has jumped by 10 mpg.  Haven’t done a proper calculation but will do so next time I fill up.  There has been no change in my driving style or the routes I normally take.  It’s certainly been a bit warmer over the last week so maybe that has had an effect as well.  Will keep you posted on any developments.

[anchorman]

26 minutes ago, Jimota said:

Quick update.  Since filling up with E5 fuel last week, according to my digital display, the improvement in consumption has jumped by 10 mpg.  Haven’t done a proper calculation but will do so next time I fill up.  There has been no change in my driving style or the routes I normally take.  It’s certainly been a bit warmer over the last week so maybe that has had an effect as well.  Will keep you posted on any developments.

Mine did in the Yaris when I switched to Esso superduper which has zero ethanol in most parts of the country.  It also tamed the growl that comes with the 3 cylinder.  I’m running the Cross on it now but it’s still tight and I’m not expecting miracles just yet.  It’s in the mid to low fifties at the moment.  I live in a very hilly part of the country.  

[Jimota]

Current mpg figure is around 66 mpg.  Mid fifties before I made the switch.

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, Jimota said:

Current mpg figure is around 66 mpg.  Mid fifties before I made the switch.

This is more because of the weather than of the petrol change. 10mpg difference between e5 and e10 nope, it’s more like 3-5mpg realistic but when you add the warmer weather and you can get up to 10mpg and above, there is more for improvement ⛽️👌

In anchorman case and everyone else who is driving on all season tyres the fuel consumption will suffer by around 5mpg all year around as these tyres are very grabbing and kill the inertia of the car and reduce ev free rolling, something that Toyota hybrids relays on to maintain higher efficiency. 

[Jimota]

It’ll be interesting to see what the figures are like over the coming weeks but first reaction is to stick with the E5 fuel.  At £1.43 a litre (Costco) it’s a bit of a bargain.

[TonyHSD]

10 minutes ago, Jimota said:

It’ll be interesting to see what the figures are like over the coming weeks but first reaction is to stick with the E5 fuel.  At £1.43 a litre (Costco) it’s a bit of a bargain.

Tesco momentum 99 E5 at £1.46 a litre, the car drives like Lexus v6 😂👌

[YarisHybrid2016]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

This is more because of the weather than of the petrol change. 10mpg difference between e5 and e10 nope, it’s more like 3-5mpg realistic but when you add the warmer weather and you can get up to 10mpg and above, there is more for improvement ⛽️👌

In anchorman case and everyone else who is driving on all season tyres the fuel consumption will suffer by around 5mpg all year around as these tyres are very grabbing and kill the inertia of the car and reduce ev free rolling, something that Toyota hybrids relays on to maintain higher efficiency. 

I'm running Continental UltraContact.

[Max_Headroom]

On 2/9/2023 at 5:51 PM, Max_Headroom said:

I checked our local SHELL garages and  - 

Unleaded = 147p litre

Super unleaded = 162p litre 

 

 

Todays prices - 

Shell V power super  U/L - 169.9

Tesco momentum 99 - 152.9

Shell unleaded - 149.9

Tesco unleaded - 145.9

I will be running my car on Tesco Momentum 99 from now on.

What are the benefits of using Tesco Momentum 99?

Momentum 99 contains a special blend of additives to help keep the fuel system clean and working at its best.

Additionally, the higher octane level (99 compared to 95 for regular unleaded petrol) gives improved overall engine performance for those cars that are able to take advantage (generally sportier models).

[Max_Headroom]

 

[TonyHSD]

These calculations are perhaps wrong or the Tesco garage in question sells mixed fuels which won’t be of a big surprise to me. I found a difference between Tesco  garages up and down the country, and it’s  not only Tesco but all brands. Bp, Shell, texaco. 
When you lucky to fill up with good Tesco momentum E5 99 the benefits are better engine response, low noise, higher mpg and when the price it’s close to E10 95 from any other places it’s simply the best fuel for your car.
My personal experience is No E10 95 from any other garage its better than Tesco momentum 99 E5, which btw should have up to 5% ethanol not 7.5%. This can be felt immediately if you know your car and engine.
Last few nights I went out with full tank and return home in the morning with less than a half , 270 + miles traveled for work in one average shift, I surely can tell a difference and for me using E10 it’s only if there is no E5 available or out of price match, some services are still selling E5 for over £2 a litre. Here my daily trip , that’s a mileage for a lorry not a car 🛣🫢

[Max_Headroom]

3 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

When you lucky to fill up with good Tesco momentum E5 99 the benefits are better engine response, low noise, higher mpg and when the price it’s close to E10 95 from any other places it’s simply the best fuel for your car.

I noticed the difference on the drive home as you say it seems more responsive and definitely quieter i haven't done enough miles to see if the MPFG changes but to be honest i am not too bothered if its minimal the fact this fuel makes the engine smoother, more responsive and has a cleaning agent is enough for me to carry on using it.