Wheel Stud

[Wooster]

I was just making sure I could undo the wheel nuts on my car.  (On my drive-way, instead of finding out I couldn't do it by the side of the road on a cold, wet night.) Put the wheel nuts back with the brace supplied with the car, using both hands to tighten them. One stud on the OSF sheared off. (In 40 years of driving I've never had this happen before!) I'm guessing someone in the past had over tightened and stretched it. Curiously, there was a non Toyota brace in with the wheel tools when I bought the car second hand. (14" and extendable to 25".) It could obviously give lots of leverage to undo stuck wheel nuts.  But also lots of leverage to over tighten them as well.  I guess I did the nut up once too often and it broke. Or has anyone another theory?

Can someone tell me how much force is required to shear a wheel bolt? I've found various websites but it's too technical for me to understand.  eurocodeapplied.com/bolt-design-properties

How much of a safety margin is there, compared to the recommended torque setting?

 

 

[xrhstosgr]

1 hour ago, Wooster said:

Απλώς φρόντιζα να λύσω τα παξιμάδια του τροχού στο αυτοκίνητό μου. (Στην διαδρομή μου, αντί να μάθω ότι δεν μπορούσα να το κάνω στην άκρη του δρόμου μια κρύα, υγρή νύχτα.) Τοποθετήστε τα παξιμάδια του τροχού πίσω με το στήριγμα που παρέχεται με το αυτοκίνητο, χρησιμοποιώντας και τα δύο χέρια για να τα σφίξετε . Ένα καρφί στο OSF κόπηκε. (Σε 40 χρόνια οδήγησης δεν μου έχει ξανασυμβεί αυτό!) Υποθέτω ότι κάποιος στο παρελθόν το είχε σφίξει και τεντώσει υπερβολικά. Περιέργως, όταν αγόρασα το αυτοκίνητο μεταχειρισμένο, υπήρχε ένα στήριγμα εκτός Toyota με τα εργαλεία τροχού. (14" και επεκτάσιμο σε 25") Θα μπορούσε προφανώς να δώσει μεγάλη δύναμη για να ξεκολλήσετε τα κολλημένα παξιμάδια τροχού. Αλλά και πολλή δύναμη για να τα σφίξετε υπερβολικά. Υποθέτω ότι το έκανα πολύ συχνά και μου έσπασε. Ή έχει κανείς άλλη θεωρία;

Μπορεί κάποιος να μου πει πόση δύναμη απαιτείται για να κόψει ένα μπουλόνι τροχού; Έχω βρει διάφορους ιστότοπους, αλλά είναι πολύ τεχνικό για να το καταλάβω.  eurocodeapplied.com/bolt-design-properties

Πόσο περιθώριο ασφαλείας υπάρχει, σε σύγκριση με τη συνιστώμενη ρύθμιση ροπής;

 

 

Hello I believe that it is not from much use, but from the prolonged tightening that this pass received You may not have realized how much force you used to extract the screw However, such cuts are common

[TonyHSD]

Manufacturer torque is 103Nm that one perhaps was 203Nm 

Tyre garages are doing it so wrong it’s unbelievable. I am not sure you can buy just this thing but it’s a whole new wheel bearing hub with price tag £125 and above. I have my old one at home and if you want I can try to take one or two out and if successful I can post to you. 
👍

[Wooster]

13 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

not sure you can buy just this thing

Toyota sell the studs for about £12 and my local has them in stock.  I can replace it, and can only hope the old one isn't rusted in place.  

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, Wooster said:

Toyota sell the studs for about £12 and my local has them in stock.  I can replace it, and can only hope the old one isn't rusted in place.  

That’s good to know 👍

There will be some rust for sure but I think you should be ok to knock it off., I did took few outs knocking with hammer previous time when I was replacing the bearings.
Here a picture what you will need to deal with 

[forkingabout]

Looks very similar to rear studs on the Toyota counter balance forklifts.

 

 

[xrhstosgr]

 

Hello again If we are talking about the code: 90942-02049, where I am, it costs 1.80 to 2.00 euros at most. We are talking about huge differences Tony very good job and above all good sprays you use, but also spotless work. Well done

[Wooster]

Just an update.  Put some penetrating oil down the old bolt and it came out (60 minutes later) with a few gentle taps. Bought a wheel stud and fitted it easily.  

On 2/8/2023 at 7:58 PM, xrhstosgr said:

...but also spotless work.

Have to agree - and  assuming it was done outside (block pave) and not in a garage - you are to be congratulated!

[APS]

 

On 2/7/2023 at 6:18 PM, Wooster said:

How much of a safety margin is there, compared to the recommended torque setting?

Good question. As far as I know, Toyota doesn't give an exact specification (someone?). But, I think it's safe to assume they would use a high tensile bolt equivalent to 10.9, maybe 12.9. For an M12 10.9 bolt you'd have a recommended torque around 135-140 Nm. An M12 10.9 bolt with standard pitch thread should be able to hold 7000 kg (7 tonne). The equivalent bolt with a fine pitch like a wheel stud can take more.

In practice though, torque is a really inaccurate way of gauging bolt tension as about 90% of the torque is needed to overcome friction. And friction varies hugely, depending on the state of the mating surfaces and lubrication. As a rule of thumb, 100-110 Nm is generally sufficient. Personally, I always keep wheel nuts/lugs slightly lubricated. This is the only way to get a consistent clamping force.

I think your guess, that someone has over tightened it in the past, is spot on. While the bolts are strong, repeated over tightening will fatigue the metal and eventually lead to failure.

Thank goodness you discovered this while stationary! If I were you, I'd consider replacing the remaining ones, assuming the same person has applied the same nut cracking torque regime across all wheels.

 

[TonyHSD]

Here is my tip to trick how I keep lubricated the wheel studs.
When a new hub is fitted first time I do nothing as usually any metal part comes from factory with slightly oily surface, rust prevention.
Then after some time and need to undo them when I have the lug nuts out I spray a little bit of wd-40 on the studs and leave them for a few minutes, then I wipe any excess lube with dry cloth. Doing so prevent rust, keep surface clean and minimise the risk of inaccurate torque when the wheel is fitted back. , spot on fitting similar to factory one 👌

[Guest]

A bit of light entertainment.

[Wooster]

19 hours ago, APS said:

Thank goodness you discovered this while stationary! If I were you, I'd consider replacing the remaining ones...

Thanks for your concern!  But as there were four other bolts holding the wheel on, I don't think there was any danger.  I replaced all the other bolts on the front offside hub along with the one failed.  I'll replace the bolts on the nearside front very soon.  The rear hub bolts will be OK as the original tyres are still on the car - so Toyota UK put them on. (Tyre manufacturing date two months before the car's first registration.)  

4 hours ago, olonas said:

A bit of light entertainment...

Interesting stuff. Had a lot of my (amateur) practice confirmed as Ok and learnt a bit too.  Thanks for posting.

[forkingabout]

Here's the last lot of rear studs I replaced - I always change them as a hub set & replace the nuts as well. 

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, forkingabout said:

Here's the last lot of rear studs I replaced - I always change them as a hub set & replace the nuts as well. 

Is that from over tightened the nuts?

And if happens when the car is moving the wheel will fly away, what happened to me few months ago.  
 One evening on A41 towards Aylsbury a white van was overtaking me and when he almost finished his overtaking his left front wheel flew away from the van and into the bushes. The van left corner dropped to the ground and immediately turned into my lane with sparks and fire coming from his front. He went off the road and stopped safely onto the verge. I managed to slow down quickly and let him space enough to bring his van to a complete stop. What an experience. The driver was in shock but at least no bigger accident happened, it was a near miss to me., a second earlier and he would have taken me with him into the bush. 😬

[forkingabout]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Is that from over tightened the nuts?

Pass, I always tighten them correctly to 195 Nm with a calibrated torque wrench as per the repair manual. 

We do keep a set of new studs & wheel nuts in stock just in case. 

[tavy]

195 ? Too much... My service manual says 105 Nm, I use 112... 115 .

[forkingabout]

2 hours ago, tavy said:

195 ? Too much... My service manual says 105 Nm, I use 112... 115 .

Its 195 Nm on a Toyota Tonero counter balance forklift rear wheel - as I pictured. 

My username kinda gives away what I repair for a living 😉

[Wooster]

52 minutes ago, forkingabout said:

Toyota Tonero counter balance forklift...

The correct torque for a forklift doesn't mean it will be the same on an Auris car.  (This is an Auris forum.)  My (Auris) owners manual also says 105Nm.

[tavy]

Yeap, we are talking about Auris here... 

[forkingabout]

1 minute ago, Wooster said:

The correct torque for a forklift doesn't mean it will be the same on an Auris car.  (This is an Auris forum.)  My (Auris) owners manual also says 105Nm.

I never said it was the correct torque figure for an Auris 🙄

Ill now go limit myself to C-HR & General Discursion parts of the forum then, thank you forum Police.

[Wooster]

18 hours ago, forkingabout said:

...tighten them correctly to 195 Nm with a calibrated torque wrench as per the repair manual. 

It's hardly 'Forum Police' is it?  When you quote 195Nm in an Auris forum, others might also do the same.  You didn't mention the forklift until Tavy queried it.  

[tavy]

Sorry Lee, no offence !

[Tyreman86]

Forkingabout, I could use your help with some forklift hub nut tightening torques.. Can you help?

[AisinW]

I had similar bad experience but it was with Nissan full size sedan.  I went to Sears Autocenter that offer $40 for brake fluid change.  I waited for 2 hours and they did nothing but asking me to replace the pads.  I told them, no i don't want to pay $100 labor for a brake pads. Just do my brake fluid.

They were looked so  disappointed, and most likely impact hammer all the nuts and did not replaced my brake fluid. 

I got a $32 ceramic mads from Autozone with lifetime warranty parts and 2 out of 10 studs broke.  So I knew, it must be those Crooks in Sears did that. 

I went back to Autozone, get 6 studs and went to my trusted mechanics. He did all those studs with brake pads and disc at the same time he only charged for plain brake service for $50.  He simply hammered the old nuts with one weck and pull the new nuts with impact wrench in a minute.

All are fine for the next 60k miles when I sold it. 

So, it is ok just to replace the Studs, but if it is 200k miles, replacing the whole hub is probably cheaper and easier.

The torque specs on Toyota is only 103Nm, most shops set their tools at 120Nm. It is not ideal but never give us issues. I know that Opel/Vauxhaul Astra spec is 120Nm.

By the way, those Sears Autocenter went bankrupt in 2018. Closed forever