Park or neutral

[tfc]

Hi everyone , I new to the forum and new to Toyota but I have a question  and I've done a search but can't find anything. 

What I've noticed when in parked position the engine will only rev to about 2000 rpm and when it's in neutral it won't  rev at all, is this normal for one of these.

John.

Corolla gr sport 2020

[AndrueC]

1 hour ago, tfc said:

Hi everyone , I new to the forum and new to Toyota but I have a question  and I've done a search but can't find anything. 

What I've noticed when in parked position the engine will only rev to about 2000 rpm and when it's in neutral it won't  rev at all, is this normal for one of these.

John.

Corolla gr sport 2020

That seems like a strange question. I don't think I've tried to rev the engine in neutral or park since there'd be no point. At first thought it seems a little odd that it will rev at all in either gear position but revving in park will be useful for diagnostics. Revving in neutral sounds dangerous and potentially damaging if you move the gear selector into D or R.

[Catlover]

Hi John and welcome to this very informative forum.

If my understanding is right, when you take a Toyota hybrid for mot they do not test the emissions because the engine doesn’t rev “on demand”. so I would say in answer to your question that yes..it is normal not to rev.

[TonyHSD]

Hi John and welcome. 
When the car is parked in P the engine may be running to recharge the hybrid Battery or to warm up itself and be ready for driving and for heating up the cabin. When the car is in neutral N the engine will not start or if it’s already running and the Battery is low it will display a message on the dashboard to switch to P or D because when in N neutral the hybrid system it’s  not able to recharge the hybrid Battery. 
By default and by the manufacturer recommendation in the cars manual drivers should never use N and alway keep their cars in either P, D or R. 
N it’s more like valet ( emergency) gear. You don’t need to use N when in slow moving stop and start traffic, or going downhill etc. Only P, D and R. 
When in P and stationary if you press accelerator the engine will start , if you press further can even rise the rpm a little high to about 3500rpm, this is for diagnostic and testing purposes only. You don’t need to do that at all. 
A good idea to download the car manual and read all pages especially when new to Toyota hybrids as these cars are very different from all other cars and all other hybrids. 👍

[tfc]

Thanks for the replies,

I've had quite a few vehicles with autoboxes over the years, my last car was a auto and had it for 9 yrs but this is my first hybrid and cvt box and found it puzzling that it wouldn't rev in N or P.

I was ready to take it back to the dealers tomorrow and ask the question.

thanks everyone for your input.

[Cyker]

In that sense the hybrids are more like EVs than autoboxes - Technically they don't even have a gearbox in the normal sense!

The accelerator doesn't control the engine and RPM like it does in normal cars, it controls power delivery to the wheels, whether from the engine or the electric motors.

In N it's pretending to be in neutral so it ignores pedal inputs telling it to send power to the wheels. In P similar, although I didn't know you could rev the engine in P by pressing the accelerator so I've learned a new thing!   

[flash22]

It does it to protect the complex hybrid system, it doesn't need to rev in park as it's just acting as a generator. In neutral, the system is not doing anything, so there is no need for rpm

 

The hybrid gearbox is not like a conventional CVT it does not use a belt and pulleys or have a torque convertor it's all gear driven - it can get very technical

in short, the Hybrid has its own driving style, it drives and act's nothing like a conventional auto

[Gray86]

On 2/17/2023 at 5:27 PM, Cyker said:

In that sense the hybrids are more like EVs than autoboxes - Technically they don't even have a gearbox in the normal sense!

The accelerator doesn't control the engine and RPM like it does in normal cars, it controls power delivery to the wheels, whether from the engine or the electric motors.

In N it's pretending to be in neutral so it ignores pedal inputs telling it to send power to the wheels. In P similar, although I didn't know you could rev the engine in P by pressing the accelerator so I've learned a new thing!   

Toyota engineers call it a transaxle, as (you say) it’s not a gearbox 

[Cyker]

In most Toyota literature it's referred to as the PSD or Power Split Device.

It's basically a planetary gearset that's being used as a fancy differential to merge and direct torque between 3 different sources (MG1, MG2 and ICE) - It's quite clever and elegant engineering, and makes the Toyota hybrid drive the only hybrid system capable of switching between being a parallel or series hybrid at will.

 

[fred88]

Would you use N in a car wash where the car is pulled through?

[tfc]

Well it looks like they are going back to autoboxes in the new GR as they have done away with the B mode and added + & - manual mode like my i30.

EDIT.. looks like you can have a option if you want a auto or cvt

Edited February 19, 2023 by tfc

[tfc]

1 hour ago, fred88 said:

Would you use N in a car wash where the car is pulled through?

Yes because when its in P it locks the box up so the front driving wheels wont turn

[Trewithy]

I only select Park when I am parked and never put the car in Neutral.  Personally I would't use a pull through car wash.

[fred88]

41 minutes ago, Trewithy said:

I only select Park when I am parked and never put the car in Neutral.  Personally I would't use a pull through car wash.

Same here, I only asked.

[fred88]

Didn't mean that to sound funny if it does 😀

[TonyHSD]

6 hours ago, fred88 said:

Would you use N in a car wash where the car is pulled through?

Yes you can and this is why N even exist. 👍

[TonyHSD]

4 hours ago, tfc said:

Well it looks like they are going back to autoboxes in the new GR as they have done away with the B mode and added + & - manual mode like my i30.

EDIT.. looks like you can have a option if you want a auto or cvt

Nope, not in hybrids with power split device. This is again only a trick to please those who can’t or find difficult to forget about conventional gearboxes with actual gears. These different 1-6 numbers are only pre set ratio between both power sources and they help nothing with performance. They can only be useful as regenerative braking enhancement, when going downhill and you want to hold the car with the engine instead of keep prosthetic brakes you can use - on the steering wheel or shifter to increase regenerative braking and maintain steady speed or slow down, something that you can also do in cars with B but you need to use the ACC - button. 
Toyota hybrids HSD series which are all Toyota Lexus cars except latest Tundra and Crown in USA has these type transaxle without gears. The other two are called Hybrid Max power train and these are very different systems. 
https://uk.motor1.com/news/598362/2023-toyota-crown-hybrid-revealed/

[2badmice]

On 2/19/2023 at 9:32 AM, tfc said:

Well it looks like they are going back to autoboxes in the new GR as they have done away with the B mode and added + & - manual mode like my i30.

EDIT.. looks like you can have a option if you want a auto or cvt

I don't have B in my Corolla

[Gray86]

7 minutes ago, 2badmice said:

I don't have B in my Corolla

Is it a 2.0? That doesn’t have B, but pulling the paddles gives same affect 

[2badmice]

Just now, Gray86 said:

Is it a 2.0? That doesn’t have B, but pulling the paddles gives same affect 

Yes I have a 2.0.  It's rare that I use the paddles.  I don't even use them on the motorway as I used to with my Golf, as the torque is so much better in the Corolla.

Am I missing out on anything?

[Gray86]

2 minutes ago, 2badmice said:

Yes I have a 2.0.  It's rare that I use the paddles.  I don't even use them on the motorway as I used to with my Golf, as the torque is so much better in the Corolla.

Am I missing out on anything?

The only time to use them is when driving in really hills terrain when regen braking won’t suffice, or your HV Battery is full. The paddles simulate gears - so you can drop down a gear to create more engine braking, rather than overheat the little disk brakes. 

[2badmice]

6 minutes ago, Gray86 said:

The only time to use them is when driving in really hills terrain when regen braking won’t suffice, or your HV battery is full. The paddles simulate gears - so you can drop down a gear to create more engine braking, rather than overheat the little disk brakes. 

It's not often I am in that terrain, so I will try and bear it in mind.  Thank you

[AndrueC]

1 hour ago, 2badmice said:

Yes I have a 2.0.  It's rare that I use the paddles.  I don't even use them on the motorway as I used to with my Golf, as the torque is so much better in the Corolla.

Am I missing out on anything?

I doubt it. I had them on my last two Jazz and the paddles never seemed to be under my fingers when I might want them.

Most of the time all I used them for was engine braking down hill but there was one silly technique you could use.

Pull the down shift pedal twice which put the Jazz into discrete gear mode and dropped down two gears (out of seven). Then as you floor the accelerator press the button to put the car back into full CVT mode.

The result was that you accelerated with the car stuck at the red-line until you eased off. It gave a surprisingly good kick on the odd occasions when I used it. I've grown up since then though 🙂

[TonyHSD]

If there are no gears why bother with shifters then? All that regenerative braking or acceleration via these +/- can be done with the pedals + accelerator / - brake pedal. , and you are not going to use more actual brakes , no more friction and wear to your brake disc guaranteed. 👍
If you ask Toyota engineers why they put these on some models , the answer will be to please the new hybrid drivers that switch from other  cars to Toyota and can’t easily adapt to the new way these cars are driving.  👌

[Yugguy1970]

I like a gearstick to put one hand on while I'm driving and tap in time to the music.  Terrible habit I know but there we are.

Had a Focus auto before the RAV with a rotary dial like a Jag and it just wasn't right.  🤣

I did used to wonder what the point of the several S "ratios" was on the RAV and while I still think they are pointless for acceleration I do find them useful for maintaining downhill braking on different angles of hills.