Toyota Main Dealers - Diagnostic Test?

[jazzyman]

My Auris is currently at the main Toyota dealers undergoing  a full diagnostic check because of of a code error and stuck in limp mode.

My question is does Toyota supply a print out of the diagnostic test results, or do you have to request one?

[flash22]

They don't tend to, but if they run a health check in techstream they can produce a PDF

 

TBH I wouldn't take a car of that age to a main stealer, they are likely to make a very costly diag, if they have anyone that knows about diesels

[jazzyman]

Thanks for your reply.

The Toyota garage choice was my last resort, no local garage was interested and didn't have a clue what was causing the p0093 error. I was hoping that the Toyota scan would be a thorough test and pick up all problems associated with this error. Toyota carried out a diagnostic scan and want just under £2k to replace the injectors and scv valve and it seems that they don't know what the actual problem is.

I need to know the fuel injector diagnostics to rule out if there is a problem with the injectors because it is not worth spending this much money because of the car's age.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, jazzyman said:

Toyota carried out a diagnostic scan and want just under £2k to replace the injectors and scv valve and it seems that they don't know what the actual problem is.

They will not be alone in that. Many places just chuck parts at a problem hoping it will go away without a proper and full diagnosis. e.g. O2 sensor code - just replace the O2 sensor when it might well be not be the sensor causing the problem. i.e. the symptom, not the cause.

[Sooty]

The big problem now a days is that the people who work in garages are not "mechanics", but are trained fitters, i.e. trained to change and fit parts and not taught how to diagnose and repair faults like in the good old days. 

[TonyHSD]

On top of all that many if not all car mechanics working within main dealers network or independent garages are not well paid or motivated by any mean so even if they know how they want do it. Some garage policies also stupid and stop a well trained mechanics to carry on and use their ability to diagnose and fix problems driven by the greed and profit chase of the dealers management. All in all unless warranty repairs or recall best to avoid dealers and big name garages for any sort of repairs, diy or trusted mechanic who works for himself and take pride of what he is doing and been recommended by people. Something like the car care nut in USA. Low volume, high quality work., profits comes as a reward for the job been done correctly. 👍 On this old car repair that exceed the value of the car itself, not guaranteed work too plus it’s a diesel which are hated these days if me I will scrap the car if can’t fixed myself and move on. 

[flash22]

Does the car put out lots of black smoke ?

[jazzyman]

No black smoke. A lot of white smoke when starting, soon clears

[Saxmaniac]

Can you find a diesel specialist rather than a garage as such? There's one local to us does nothing but diesel, knows how to diagnose and fix properly, and your problem would probably be child's play to them 

[flash22]

Any loss of coolant ? Any rise of oil level

[jazzyman]

No coolant loss. Car has been running great until I tried changing this SCV valve, only done 47k mileage.

[Hybrid21]

Sounds similar dilemma that my daughter had with their RAV4 diesel, the local independent garage had the car for about 3 months changing injectors as I think the job was beyond their abilities ☹️

They said on a few occasions that they may need to send it to the Toyota garage to be sorted. 

[Phil_1985]

I feel for you - as no one will want to touch it if they don't have the experience of the fault. I know you mentioned that you've already taken it to a few places, but have you tried calling around any diesel specialists again?

I'd assume the main dealer would only suggest to change the injectors if there is a reason to. From memory, I believe there are injector feedback values / compensation values which, if they are out of range on the diagnostic - the 'repair' is to replace them.  I'm no expert, but an independent specialist will hopefully be able to advise further such as reconditioning them if they are 'out of spec' 

P093 could just be the SCV, or one or more fuel injectors.... you could start small - and try scv only. 

e.g - pasted from a different thread - 

P0093 is "large fuel leak detected" and is often set by a faulty SCV allowing fuel pressure to drop between switching the engine off and restarting, when the new valve was fitted was the Engine ECU software updated to operate the valve correctly?

I have seen this code once before where all the modifications where done but it kept repeating, everything appeared fine on diagnosis but on recommendation from Toyota we removed the injectors and had them leak tested and whilst electronically fine two of the four leaked fuel when they where supposed to be closed, this was detected by the fuel pressure sensor as a fuel leak and P0093 was set, two new injectors fitted and no further fault.

 

[flash22]

See the op's other thread

 

[jazzyman]

6 hours ago, Hybrid21 said:

Sounds similar dilemma that my daughter had with their RAV4 diesel, the local independent garage had the car for about 3 months changing injectors as I think the job was beyond their abilities ☹️

They said on a few occasions that they may need to send it to the Toyota garage to be sorted. 

Did your daughter ever get her RAV4 fixed? If so what was the problem?

[jazzyman]

5 hours ago, Phil_1985 said:

I feel for you - as no one will want to touch it if they don't have the experience of the fault. I know you mentioned that you've already taken it to a few places, but have you tried calling around any diesel specialists again?

I'd assume the main dealer would only suggest to change the injectors if there is a reason to. From memory, I believe there are injector feedback values / compensation values which, if they are out of range on the diagnostic - the 'repair' is to replace them.  I'm no expert, but an independent specialist will hopefully be able to advise further such as reconditioning them if they are 'out of spec' 

P093 could just be the SCV, or one or more fuel injectors.... you could start small - and try scv only. 

e.g - pasted from a different thread - 

P0093 is "large fuel leak detected" and is often set by a faulty SCV allowing fuel pressure to drop between switching the engine off and restarting, when the new valve was fitted was the Engine ECU software updated to operate the valve correctly?

I have seen this code once before where all the modifications where done but it kept repeating, everything appeared fine on diagnosis but on recommendation from Toyota we removed the injectors and had them leak tested and whilst electronically fine two of the four leaked fuel when they where supposed to be closed, this was detected by the fuel pressure sensor as a fuel leak and P0093 was set, two new injectors fitted and no further fault.

 

I am picking the car up tomorrow, hopefully with the diagnostic report it will be interesting to see if the injector values are in tolerance. Will keep you posted.

[Guest]

23 hours ago, Sooty said:

The big problem now a days is that the people who work in garages are not "mechanics", but are trained fitters, i.e. trained to change and fit parts and not taught how to diagnose and repair faults like in the good old days. 

The word "fitters" has now been dumbed down. I served a 5 years apprenticeship in the 1960s, heavy engineering at a steelworks, as a mechanical fitter. Not just a case of grabbing a part off the shelf and "fitting" it. Sometimes the part had to be made, by hand and then fitted. Or even adjusted using hand tools to make it fit. After diagnosing that was the issue first. How many so-called fitters now could fit  e.g. a Gib head, Morse taper key into a pinnion on  a drive shaft?

So in "the good old days" it was a highly skilled job, unlike today when it could mean anything e.g. "You can't get better than a Kwik Fit fitter"!

Rant over.

 

[jazzyman]

Collected my car today from Toyota. I requested a print out of the diagnostic test results, they informed me that they do not do print outs, after making a fuss they connected my car for a live stream reading and provided the following readings for the injectors.

Looks like Toyota diagnostic testing is a waste of money and it's just for the Toyota technicians.

Any comments on the injector test results would be very much apricated, could this be the cause of the P0093 error?

[Phil_1985]

From memory, I think the normal operating range is +/- 3.0mm. If it's more than this - something like +/- 4.9 they're out of tolerance. 

I cannot remember the values - I'm sure someone will be along to confirm shortly. 

 

[flash22]

Get the SCV sorted first, fuel pressure will affect flow rates

[jazzyman]

6 hours ago, flash22 said:

Get the SCV sorted first, fuel pressure will affect flow rates

New SCV valve ordered. I will provide an update when it's fitted and tested.

[Hybrid21]

On 2/20/2023 at 10:51 PM, jazzyman said:

Did your daughter ever get her RAV4 fixed? If so what was the problem?

Eventually got the car back Chris and apparently it was all four injectors faulty, but the garage had initially fitted the wrong ones and the car wouldn't run, anyway it cost them a lot of money and have decided to change it for a new Suzuki as the old RAV is becoming a money pit ☹️

[Hybrid21]

18 hours ago, jazzyman said:

Collected my car today from Toyota. I requested a print out of the diagnostic test results, they informed me that they do not do print outs, after making a fuss they connected my car for a live stream reading and provided the following readings for the injectors.

Looks like Toyota diagnostic testing is a waste of money and it's just for the Toyota technicians.

Any comments on the injector test results would be very much apricated, could this be the cause of the P0093 error?

Did the Toyota technician explain the results Chris ?

[jazzyman]

4 hours ago, Hybrid21 said:

Did the Toyota technician explain the results Chris ?

This is the problem the Toyota technician said that the injectors tips were worn and that they all needed replacing and the SCV valve also needs replacing with a Toyota brand. Like others who have changed their injectors and the problem is still there, so a bit reluctant to do this until I can rule out the SCV valve which appears to be one of the main reasons for a P0093 error.

[flash22]

Did they pull the injectors i don't think so, they are relying on codes and data, injectors are not cheap at £250 each (you can get recon ones cheaper) if you have a secondary vehicle/bike/bus pass pull the injectors and have them tested

 

A sooted up EGR valve is another item that causes start issues