And I thought the ULEZ was horrible...

[Cyker]

Just heard this:

For all you that thought my negative opinion on KHAAAAAAN was unjustified, I hope this changes your mind.

https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/london-assemblys-current-investigations/road-user-charging

This needs to be stopped now and forever or it'll be the beginning of the end of personal transport in London, and once they've finished with us, likely the rest of the country.

The problem is I don't know what to do - I've written to my MP but they're on his side, we've already tried the petition .gov but that was rejected, and writing to KHAAAAAN directly may as well be sent into a black hole.

Are we just  ?

[yossarian247]

I had wondered if the ultimate aim was something like this as ULEZ expansion in itself makes no sense. The number of ULEZ non-compliant vehicles is naturally dropping significantly every year, within 5 years there will be relatively few left, so installing a huge network of cameras just for ULEZ would be largely pointless. I suspect ULEZ expansion is just a means of getting the camera network in place ready for road pricing.

[FROSTYBALLS]

27 minutes ago, yossarian247 said:

The number of ULEZ non-compliant vehicles is naturally dropping significantly every year, within 5 years there will be relatively few left so installing a huge network of cameras just for ULEZ would be largely pointless.

That's assuming the ULEZ criteria remains as it is now. Who is to say the criteria won't be amended in years to come, further restricting the use of certain vehicles in the zone??

[yossarian247]

5 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

That's assuming the ULEZ criteria remains as it is now. Who is to say the criteria won't be amended in years to come, further restricting the use of certain vehicles in the zone??

Thats really my point, it WILL be amended in years to come to include more vehicles, to the point at which it will include all of them!

[FROSTYBALLS]

In which case, they will still need the cameras regardless of whether road pricing is introduced.

Euro 4 came in in 2006. Euro 5 (which may be the next step for petrol cars as regards the zone) was introduced in 2011.

[yossarian247]

1 minute ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

In which case, they will still need the cameras regardless of whether road pricing is introduced.

But that is road pricing isn't it? Expand ULEZ to include all vehicles, it becomes road pricing.

[FROSTYBALLS]

2 minutes ago, yossarian247 said:

But that is road pricing isn't it?

It is local road pricing coupled with a way to control emissions within a specified area - which you already have with the current zone.

Aside from that road pricing has, at various times, been suggested as a replacement for vehicle (road) tax - which would be a national scheme.

[FROSTYBALLS]

13 minutes ago, yossarian247 said:

Expand ULEZ to include all vehicles, it becomes road pricing.

The next step may be to amend the requirement  for Euro 4 petrol vehicles to be charged to enter the zone - meaning Euro 5 vehicles and above will be exempt.

[Cyker]

The thing that scares me is because you will be required to install an app on your phone and register an account and your vehicle, the potential end game will be requiring you to pay if you use any form of non-public transport, once we're so deep in it they won't even need to bother with the thinly veiled lie about it being for emissions reasons.

We really need to find a way to stop this. I really hope hauliers and car manufacturers are looking at this as it will put them out of business. What's the point of buying any of these future EVs if you can only drive it once in a blue moon without bankrupting yourself?

[Bper]

Road charging will become the norm in a few years as coupled with 15 minute cities and neighbourhood to neighbourhood driving permit schemes. I think for many people they dismiss that any of these will become a reality. We are living in unprecedented times where both government and local council policies are being introduced regardless of public opinion. They are huge revenue schemes that are sold under the banner of climate change and air pollution. 

Look around the country at the council's who are building the infrastructure and installing the camera network to support this.🤬
 

[Rhymes with Paris]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

The thing that scares me is because you will be required to install an app on your phone and register an account and your vehicle, the potential end game will be requiring you to pay if you use any form of non-public transport, once we're so deep in it they won't even need to bother with the thinly veiled lie about it being for emissions reasons.

We really need to find a way to stop this. I really hope hauliers and car manufacturers are looking at this as it will put them out of business. What's the point of buying any of these future EVs if you can only drive it once in a blue moon without bankrupting yourself?

The problems for people like me using the much pushed "public transport" are not taken into account I think.

The last time I risked a bus journey from the town centre to my delightful suburb , the bus was infested with assorted idiots ,ner do wells, and shaven headed phsychopath impersonators, grunting, spitting and twitching ,on their way to the to the idyllic western suburbs of the Bircherwald ,as it is known colloquially.

Now this may not be a problem for the young and fit and confident, but I can't deal with these sorts now, so my only option is a car.

It's probably even worse in London and other towns so aswell as the fabricated emissions nonsense, maybe the famous "they" could consider that public transport is unusable by many people, due to the criminal element using it too.

Of course, like so many things, the ones calling for it, never use it.

[Cyker]

The public transport system in London is already inadequate in the outer areas - It's practically empty off-peak, with *diesel* busses still stinking up the place, but at peak time there isn't enough capacity so you're stuck getting to work before it's open or being late.

It doesn't help that KHAAAAAN! has been cutting routes due to his financial problems, which has just made things worse.

1 hour ago, Bper said:

Road charging will become the norm in a few years as coupled with 15 minute cities and neighbourhood to neighbourhood driving permit schemes. I think for many people they dismiss that any of these will become a reality. We are living in unprecedented times where both government and local council policies are being introduced regardless of public opinion. They are huge revenue schemes that are sold under the banner of climate change and air pollution. 

Look around the country at the council's who are building the infrastructure and installing the camera network to support this.🤬
 

It will if we just sit by and let it. We have to fight this!

If KHAAAAAN! won't listen, find people with power that will - E-mail your MPs, anyone!

I've tried mine but they're Labour and are just toeing the line.

The next thing I will try is to e-mail companies, hauliers and car manufacturers, as they will be badly effected if this takes place. As I said, who's going to buy an EV if the draconian taxation makes them un-viable.

 

I just wish I knew what else to do; Something with this sort of wide sweeping effect should be subject to a public vote - This is supposed to be a democratic country FFS!, but when they try and pull this sort of thing it feels more like it's a democracy in name only, and the reality is a thinly veiled dictatorship.

 

[Rhymes with Paris]

Never did get to use a bus when I was down there, apart from sonning common to reading tech,had the Volvo tank company car most of the time after that.

But to be fair,it did not seem full of nutters back then,in 1984/5 , just normal people going into work/ college in Reading.

In one of the lads magazines of the 90s , Lincoln was named as the most likely place to meet a nutter.

I still don't disagree with that.

 

 

[Bper]

23 hours ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

The problems for people like me using the much pushed "public transport" are not taken into account I think.

The last time I risked a bus journey from the town centre to my delightful suburb , the bus was infested with assorted idiots ,ner do wells, and shaven headed phsychopath impersonators, grunting, spitting and twitching ,on their way to the to the idyllic western suburbs of the Bircherwald ,as it is known colloquially.

Now this may not be a problem for the young and fit and confident, but I can't deal with these sorts now, so my only option is a car.

It's probably even worse in London and other towns so aswell as the fabricated emissions nonsense, maybe the famous "they" could consider that public transport is unusable by many people, due to the criminal element using it too.

Of course, like so many things, the ones calling for it, never use it.

Paul that's the problem with the lack of enforcement on the yob element. Safety on transport never used to be an issue. Many elderly fear to travel for this reason alone.

It really is sad.

[Rhymes with Paris]

Well Bob, they all talk up the benefits of public transport, buses, cycling, walking, human conveyor belts 🤔 etc.

Non of which are usable by me, and no doubt many others too.

If and when I have to stop driving, I am not sure that there are any options left,a mobility scooter some might say 🙄,yeah right,you can't lock yourself in or outrun feral morons on one of those.

Sorry if I sound timid and fearful all the time, I am anything but, nearly every day though, older and disabled people, aswell as the young and fit are targeted by these predators.

Stabbings seemingly for the fun of it, home invasions, robbery , only the other day it was on local news about homeless people in one of the the city centre car parks here (covered ie a roof on it) being kicked,headstomped, and urinated on.

So until the famous "they" can come up with a bus that stops near enough for me to walk to,ie outside my house, and a way of keeping the aforementioned walk offs away from their targets,(I prefer the term target, instead of victim) I will stick with driving around in my metal cage , and continue to be careful when I get out of it.

The upside 😉though,is that I can recognise them from a hundred yards away, the idiot body language, the three stripe Adidas, the face and neck tats , spitting every two minutes, and funnily enough, really bad driving before they even stop.

Apologies to decent folk with neck tats and three stripe, I know that there are some of you, but for the rest it's like a uniform.

 

 

[Cyker]

Well, since Toyota are pivoting from being a car company to be a mobility company instead (Whatever the heck that means), we can only hope that means they'll invent some starship troopers-style mobile infantry or WH40k powered armour for the elderly to terrorize the neighbourhoods with   

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

We do use our local bus services sometimes when we need to go into Birmingham City Centre, and find them OK.

Operated by National Express, they're limited stop with bus lanes for part of the journey. Smart payments system for those that pay. On-board CCTV that passengers and the driver can view. Verbal and visual notification of next stop. Leather seating on some. Wi-Fi for those that want it, usb charging points, etc. The first rapid transit routes cross city coming in  around 18 months.  Choice of routes, and buses running every 10 minutes or so. Good journey times and cheaper than paying city centre parking charges.

The company will soon have the largest zero emissions hydrogen bus fleet in the UK.

[Phil T]

When the London congestion charge came into force, all fat execs dumped  their cars and got Addison Lee private taxi’s. Within a few months the congestion was back to normal! When Westminster dropped free parking for motorbikes, and extended West End parking until midnight for cars, complaints to Boris who was then in charge got the reply “If it’s not walking, cycling, or public transport were not interested”. Money grabbing at the drivers expense, we are easy targets.

The real problem is too many people in this country and the world. Climate change is caused by people and nothing else. Our grandchildren have no chance, living in a sea of plastic and used batteries, shoulder to shoulder. Something to look forward to.

[Cyker]

21 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

We do use our local bus services sometimes when we need to go into Birmingham City Centre, and find them OK.

Operated by National Express, they're limited stop with bus lanes for part of the journey. Smart payments system for those that pay. On-board CCTV that passengers and the driver can view. Verbal and visual notification of next stop. Leather seating on some. Wi-Fi for those that want it, usb charging points, etc. The first rapid transit routes cross city coming in  around 18 months.  Choice of routes, and buses running every 10 minutes or so. Good journey times and cheaper than paying city centre parking charges.

The company will soon have the largest zero emissions hydrogen bus fleet in the UK.

Is that for the majority of Brummy busses?? That's pretty advanced!! The vast majority of busses I'm stuck next to in this  hole called London are still diesel!! I've seen maybe one or two electric busses, but they've all been single-decker ones. All the doubles are still the same ancient Enviro 400 diesel lumps.

You'd think London would have gotten more zero emissions busses with the shafting they're giving drivers and blaming us for 'toxic air', yet I'm pretty sure the busses are producing more of the emissions than all the cars now!

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

16 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Is that for the majority of Brummy busses??

On our side of the city, most National Express Platinum buses are the Enviro 400MMC - some of which are Euro 6 diesels - although they stopped buying diesels in 2020. They also have Enviro 400EV's and fuel cell Streetdeck Hydroliners - both from 2020.

They are to increase the number of hydrogen buses (including 24 tram style articulated buses running on cross city rapid transit routes) to 144 by 2024, and by 2025 the West Midlands fleet will include at least 300 EV buses. The aim is to have a completely zero emissions fleet by 2030.

[Paul john]

Why dont we adopt the French CritAir system when on certain days 4’s and 5’s (diesel and older petrol) are allowed into city centers like Paris with no charge. On days of high polution only 0’s and 1’s (ev and hybrid)