Serious problem with E10 petrol!

[id0ntkn0w]

Hi,

I'm based in Ireland and drive a 1998 Avensis 1.8 automatic. In April, the government is replacing all petrol with E10....it seems they are not phasing out E5 but instead getting rid of it overnight!

I understand from my research using the VIN number etc that my car was first registered at the beginning of January 1998, but manufactured in December 1997.   It says on the UK gov website:

 "E10 petrol is cleared for use in all Toyota European petrol models made from January 1998"

I have a horrible feeling my car cant take E10. 

Would love to get your advise, have you had a similar experience?

To be honest, I love my car......with a full service history, no rust underneath and only 140 thousand genuine miles on the clock...I cant even contemplate the idea of scrapping it!

[FROSTYBALLS]

Have a look at:

https://mag.toyota.co.uk/e10-petrol-what-is-it-and-can-i-use-it/

So if it was built before January 1998, it isn't compatible.

[TonyHSD]

14 minutes ago, id0ntkn0w said:

Hi,

I'm based in Ireland and drive a 1998 Avensis 1.8 automatic. In April, the government is replacing all petrol with E10....it seems they are not phasing out E5 but instead getting rid of it overnight!

I understand from my research using the VIN number etc that my car was first registered at the beginning of January 1998, but manufactured in December 1997.   It says on the UK gov website:

 "E10 petrol is cleared for use in all Toyota European petrol models made from January 1998"

I have a horrible feeling my car cant take E10. 

Would love to get your advise, have you had a similar experience?

To be honest, I love my car......with a full service history, no rust underneath and only 140 thousand genuine miles on the clock...I cant even contemplate the idea of scrapping it!

Hi and welcome. 
There is no need to be worried so much about it. Keep filling up with whatever petrol is available near you and you can add an additives that helps reduce the risk of any complications when using E10 petrol. Amazon it’s a good place to start looking for these, read reviews what other says about and generally speaking try to fill up small amounts of fuel more often, just to keep it fresh as possible. 
Lucas Oil 40576 Safeguard Ethanol Fuel Conditioner-473ml https://amzn.eu/d/dV3o14u

[FROSTYBALLS]

According to government E5 super unleaded will still be available - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fuelling-a-greener-future-e10-petrol-rolling-out-in-northern-ireland-on-1-november-2022

[id0ntkn0w]

9 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Have a look at:

https://mag.toyota.co.uk/e10-petrol-what-is-it-and-can-i-use-it/

Take note of the following extract: "If your vehicle was produced before January 1998, it cannot use E10 fuel."

O dear 😞 

[id0ntkn0w]

5 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Hi and welcome. 
There is no need to be worried so much about it. Keep filling up with whatever petrol is available near you and you can add an additives that helps reduce the risk of any complications when using E10 petrol. Amazon it’s a good place to start looking for these, read reviews what other says about and generally speaking try to fill up small amounts of fuel more often, just to keep it fresh as possible. 
Lucas Oil 40576 Safeguard Ethanol Fuel Conditioner-473ml https://amzn.eu/d/dV3o14u

I never heard of that. Thank you so much! Might well be the solution to my problem! 

[NeilMH]

I would go down the additive route if that happened over here.

[id0ntkn0w]

3 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

According to government E5 super unleaded will still be available - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fuelling-a-greener-future-e10-petrol-rolling-out-in-northern-ireland-on-1-november-2022

Im afraid I'm in the republic so wont apply unfortunately

[id0ntkn0w]

Just now, NeilMH said:

I would go down the additive route if that happened over here.

I wonder does the additive work well, any problems with it? Perhaps it still decreases the life of the car (corrosion etc), but slows it down?

[NeilMH]

1 minute ago, id0ntkn0w said:

I wonder does the additive work well, any problems with it? Perhaps it still decreases the life of the car (corrosion etc), but slows it down?

I guess only time would tell. I suppose the best bet would be to try and read reviews from those who have been using it for some time. In my case I would want to try and go down that route rather than giving up on the car. It could even be that it might not be as big a problem as they say. 

[TonyHSD]

Indeed, you can check what others says and try different types of additives, anything that helps inside the tank will be beneficial.
The E10 major issues that can cause are eventually cracks on rubber fuel lines that were not designed to work with this fuel, corrosion on metal parts along the fuel system like carburettor or older type mono injection cars for example and those with high pressure direct injection from earlier years. However all that parts can be replaced with modern equivalents if need be and keep driving your car. 
I have a relative abroad who drives his Avensis 2.0 from 2006 with any fuel available and mostly E10 as this been a standard there since 2018 and he hasn’t run into any problems to,date, his car is the one that should not be run on E10 at all and it’s in the Toyota list for cars that should use max E5 ethanol. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Think the best thing to do is to check when the car was built. As previously stated cars built from January 1998 will be OK. 

Build date will be different to date of first registration . Your VIN should provide information as to whether it was built during 1998. Toyota Ireland may be able to help with this.

[avetoy]

6 hours ago, id0ntkn0w said:

my car was first registered at the beginning of January 1998, but manufactured in December 1997. 

A few years ago I drove a Carina E (1997) with a 1.6 engine (4AFE). It's supposed to use E5 fuel, but sometimes I accidentally filled it with E10. That was because I also drove Avensis T25 in which E10 was allowed. Didn´t notice anything unusual. Most of the time I drove with E5 though...

[Cyker]

Occasional use of E10 is fine, even in a vehicle 'not designed' for it. It just shortens the life of the incompatible rubbers a bit. Long term use is the issue.

Generally, the problem that E5 and E10 cause is the alcohol attacks certain rubbers; The only thing they did in newer cars is to replace affected materials with ones that don't react with alcohol, and maybe tweak the engine map a little.

I have heard of people replacing rubber lines and seals with ones that don't react with the ethanol so they can still use it tho', but there's no official kit for this, just people smarter than me DIY'ing it. It's a bit like the custom mods classic car owners do to allow their vehicles to run on unleaded.

 

[Phil T]

It also attacks plastic, floats in petrol tanks, plastic pipes etc. Aprilia had loads of trouble with their bikes, and their other brands, and that was with the introduction of E5. The affected parts were supposedly compatible.

[Phil T]

Vee haf vays of making you vegetarian, it’s one of your 5 a day

[YarisHybrid2016]

Can we get rid of the idiots in Government and the Green lobby who think this biofuel crap is a good idea?

The biggest problem with E10 is the ethanol separates out over time. Additives attempt to prevent the separation. If you plan to not drive it for 3+ months, drain the tank or drive as close to empty as possible.

[Konrad C]

The only thing I can add, is the age of the materials being exposed to E10 fuel. Regardless that the fuel system is designed to cope with E5/E10 fuel, things still degrade over time. Hopefully this is not a problem for most Avensis (excluding the direct injection AZ engines)!
The 7A-FE engine was in use until 1999, so the youngest examples will be 23 years old. Owners of Avensis Mk1 T22 pre facelift should check their owners manual, to see if E10 fuel is mentioned back then. My much later (2009) T27 mentions that E10 fuel is within spec of fuel that can be used.    

[Shavestick]

Interesting discussion.

Apart from this forum I visit the twin Lexus forum, and as an owner of affected IS250 from MY07 I visited a thread where owners went to the extend of reviewing the variations in model build between 2005 to September 2007 (these have the 4GR-FSE engine which is not E10 compatible).

Once reviewing, the forum member conclusion was that between the above model and the next iteration from October 2007 there was only two small changes to fuel affected parts, and both reasonably priced for replacements if needed, and more importantly will not lead to a catastrophic failure.

So, although I am not saying it's the same game with the old Avensis, it's worth checking the assembly details between the affected and not affected variations.

Also, users of the affected model over the continent testified that where E5 is not available for many years (as Ethanol was introduced earlier in Europe) seen no difference in years of driving.

In my IS250 case I  use some E5 every other tank filling (there is only 8p difference between E5 to E10 in my Texaco forecourt). If affected part will fail, I will simply replace it.

[Parts-King]

Once upon a time, a pal of mine worked for Shell, Thornton Research centre in Ellesmere Port, about 40 years ago. He used to work with additives for the automotive industry. At the time they were working on additives for South American cars that ran on alcohol, only problem was the alcohol would kill carburettors and fuel lines. He actually had use of a car imported here from South America, it ran on alcohol which they had on tap at Shell, and he would run them with additives for test purposes. The smell from the exhaust was very strange

Anyhoo, point being is I am sure these additives these days will be up to the job of only 10% mix 👍 Personally I would use some additive and drive it, I would not be overly worried about it 

[TonyHSD]

Hahah , was the alcohol organic, made from fermentation of fruits? If yes then I understand the funny smell and I can assure that there won’t be a problem. Where I come from not only the cars are running on alcohol but the people too , and some of it home made 🥃🍻😂

[Cyker]

See, there's a better way to get people on-side with alcohol fuels!  

 

[Phil T]

E10 was getting me worried, during lockdown and with reduced mobility with my partner I had only been filling the Prius PHV once a year. Averaging 1200 miles on a tankful for the last 4 years. Only 1100 last year and I had to sell, after filling up at Christmas, with three quarters of a tank left 🤬 It makes manufactures mpg estimates a laughing stock, why they can't give miles on Battery and miles on ICE seperate I will never know, American testers give it like that. I have resisted putting my returns on Honest Johns MPG page 🤣 would they believe it! Any way rant over, what worried me with E10 was squeezing it out of the tank after a year of slopping around doing nothing.

[Cyker]

Well at least you can; HJ still haven't put up an entry for the Mk4!!

[YarisHybrid2016]

Seems the front-man/owner of Honest John left several years ago. It's gone down-hill since.

The price difference between E5 and E10 isn't worth considering. On a full tank it makes maybe 5 GBP difference (30 L). Given it burns the E10 fuel quicker, it's a total con! The lost MPG vs. the price differential about breaks-even.

Given E10 is a threat to component longevity vs. E5 (even if they claim E10 is "safe"), it's a no-brainer. E5 all the way!